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Optical/IP

Wipro Soars on Outsourcing

Systems integration and outsourcing services firm Wipro Ltd. (NYSE: WIT) is raking in the bucks as more telecom companies move jobs overseas (see Wipro Records Profit).

There are some who doubt the wisdom of sending jobs overseas, but companies such as Wipro, and its main rivals in India, Tata Consultancy Services and Infosys Technologies Ltd., are clearly profiting from the practice.

Wipro, which counts Cisco Systems Inc. (Nasdaq: CSCO) and Nortel Networks Corp. (NYSE/Toronto: NT) and numerous operators among its customers, increased its earnings per share for the year ended March 31 by 23 percent to 43.2 rupees (about US$1.00).

Get the details at Boardwatch.

— Ray Le Maistre, International Editor, Boardwatch

sigint 12/5/2012 | 1:56:46 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing lightbay:
There is no fairness in the world, money and power rules. Even with Tibet, China and India can be friends, when one dominates the other - like US and Mexico or Canada; Russia and Ukraine, UK and northern ireland.
__________________________________________________

Yes, lightbay, china and India can be friends, with or without Tibet. The alarm bells in India rang loud and clear when Tibet happened, and that soured relationships. Tibet acted as a natural buffer between the territories of India and China for ages, making direct conflict impractical for either side. With that changing, the threat became real.

You sound like a reasonable guy, and I'll share some info with you. To be honest, I'm no neo-buddhist who would care about what happens to the people of Tibet. I'm a resident of Bangalore, it so once happened that I had parked my car in a parking area reserved for motorcycles. The police promptly towed my car away.

I landed up at the police station to retrieve my car at about midnight and found that the cops had rounded up prostituted in the central part of bangalore. All of these were yound Tibetan women. Is that the kind of liberation you were talking about? Most Chinese folks are in denial about this. A very real human problem.

Give the Tibetans at least a special status, and religious freedom. Take the refugees back, they have a right to a home. The world would be proud of China and the magnanimity of Chinese people.
lightbay 12/5/2012 | 1:57:28 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing But face the fact, "Peaceful liberation" of tibet, sounds awfully like the liberation of Iraq. If Tibet hadn't happened, China and India would still be friends. Possibly allies, and the most formidable power bloc on the planet.

- USA bio weapon to Iraq against Iranian invasion, to Afghan against Russian invasion; Russia weapon sold to Iran was called support of terrists, Chinese weapons to anywhere is support of terrists; Weapon to the same people in Pakistan is called anti-terrism.

- when the USA invaded Vietnam, it was called liberation the country from communism. 30 years later, the same communist party still in power, but USA is back to Vietnam, it is called "Economic Globalization".

- US liberation of Florida, Texas, Arizona ...

- British liberation of India-Pakistan, Iraq ...

- Mongolian liberation of Bulgeria, Hungary ...

There is no fairness in the world, money and power rules. Even with Tibet, China and India can be friends, when one dominates the other - like US and Mexico or Canada; Russia and Ukraine, UK and northern ireland.
sigint 12/5/2012 | 1:57:33 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing brahmos:
..same for the maoist rebellion in Nepal.
__________________________________________________

In fact, this is one of the most under-reported problems. The maoist rebels in Nepal have fraternal ties to the Naxals (Maoist-Leninist, as they call themseleves), and these days arms are trafficked through the Nepal border into Bihar, and southwards to Jharkhand, Madhyapradesh, Chhattisgarh and Andhra. With the Kashmir problems easing off a bit, the Naxal problem is the major remaining terrorist threat that India has to contend with. Even if China didn't start it, they do add fuel to the fire.
sigint 12/5/2012 | 1:57:40 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing edgesansonet:
Most Indians I met in Calcutta were ignorant of their external problems ala most Americans.
__________________________________________________
Calcutta is very political - people are obsessed with local politics out there, to the exclusion of much about anything else.

edgesansonet:
Simply said, they seemed brainwashed by themselves into song-and-dance movies or the British sport called Cricket.
__________________________________________________
And television soap operas. However, the emerging class of young Indians that's career concious has only one remaining obsession, and that's cricket.
(it's a game of intense strategy making, try it!)You might be surprised by how politically aware people are and how intense political discussions can get to become.

edgesansonet:
Doesnt that say something about why Indians/Chinese that come to USA think different? May be, it is the place. US society allows even immigrants a chance to look at problems more realistically. It is a good testament to that.
__________________________________________________

I had heard of an engineer from one of the Services companies who was posted at a customer site in the US last year, at about the time the US was on the verge of declaring hostilities in Iraq. He received some anti-war mail, and forwarded it around to a few American co-workers. One of the recipients [who probably had switched to freedom-fries in preference to the french variety :)], complained to the management. The Indian engineer was promptly asked to pack his bags and leave.

It's not the place, it's the circumstances and time that matter. If you had met people in Calcutta during the Kargil conflict, you'd have heard more intense discussions on foreign affairs and military policy.

sigint 12/5/2012 | 1:57:40 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing lightbay:
The biggest power generating dam that be built anywhere in the world sits right inside the disputed area between China and India. If built, it would be 4 times larger than that of the current largest Three Gorges Dam. Enough to supply 20% of India's or 10% of China's eletricity consuption.
__________________________________________________

the himalayan region you speak of ("terai", as it's called in India) is a seismic time bomb. i think it wouldn't be prudent to indulge in heavy engineering out there.

edgesansonet 12/5/2012 | 1:57:49 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing >> I thought 99% of people in HK are Chinese, 1% British leftovers, isn't this right ?

Yes...ethnically they are Chinese but they were under British commonwealth till 1997. Even today, they retain some iota of democracy though the real political power is in the hands of the CEO, a CCP politburo appointee.


>> Maybe you are brainwashed by CNN and Fox News wihtough noticing it, like those Germans by Nazis, or Chinese by communists.

I do not watch Fox News. Remember CNN is more balanced than any other news channel. PBS is a good site to begin with.
\ESS
lightbay 12/5/2012 | 1:57:50 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing FACT:

The biggest power generating dam that be built anywhere in the world sits right inside the disputed area between China and India. If built, it would be 4 times larger than that of the current largest Three Gorges Dam. Enough to supply 20% of India's or 10% of China's eletricity consuption.

QUESTION:

Would this ever built ?
edgesansonet 12/5/2012 | 1:57:51 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing That kinda brings me to the point. I have been to China, Hong Kong, Singapore and India. Of all the street guys that I met, Hong Kong guys seem to have more balanced views than Chinese or Indians. Most Indians I met in Calcutta were ignorant of their external problems ala most Americans. Simply said, they seemed brainwashed by themselves into song-and-dance movies or the British sport called Cricket. Chinese on the other hand were totally brainwashed into communist propaganda ala Nazis, may be a trifle less cruel though. Doesnt that say something about why Indians/Chinese that come to USA think different? May be, it is the place. US society allows even immigrants a chance to look at problems more realistically. It is a good testament to that. I am an immigrant myself who came here when I was very young.
/ESS

lightbay 12/5/2012 | 1:57:51 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing Hong Kong guys seem to have more balanced views than Chinese or Indians.

I thought 99% of people in HK are Chinese, 1% British leftovers, isn't this right ?

Most Indians I met in Calcutta were ignorant of their external problems ala most Americans

Isn't happiness the most important thing in life ?

US society allows even immigrants a chance to look at problems more realistically. It is a good testament to that. I am an immigrant myself who came here when I was very young

Maybe you are brainwashed by CNN and Fox News wihtough noticing it, like those Germans by Nazis, or Chinese by communists.

Followed some link in early post, found this interesting:
http://us.rediff.com/news/2002...
By a POW of the 1962 war - he seemed to be a high level office because he was under Gen Kaul who was under direct command of Jawaharlal Nehru.
brahmos 12/5/2012 | 1:57:54 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing > ....Brahmos appears to have stayed in the US
> too long. Average Indians have little interest
> in any conflict outside the sub-continent.

1. if you are dealing with Pak, you are dealing
with the ripe fruits of PRC proliferation. its
one and the same. shrewd people do not directly
attack , they use a cats paw. if you are dealing
with the bangladesh based terrorist orgs, again
follow the trail to where the arms comes from...
..same for the maoist rebellion in Nepal.

2. average movie/cricket fanatic doesnt get to
run foreign policy - thankfully :-) let them live
in their own little cocoon and be happy.

3. the decision makers do care a lot for PRC,
so you see A2/A3 one one side (useless for Pak)
and strong & growing trade relations on the other.
reality_bites 12/5/2012 | 1:57:54 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing Most people in India are not concerned about China or even Pakistan. There are two things that drive popular consciousness - movies and cricket. Pakis get more attention since they are our flesh and blood (even if they deny that) and also play cricket....Brahmos appears to have stayed in the US too long. Average Indians have little interest in any conflict outside the sub-continent. We have no inherent hostility towards China or anyone else. We are engaged only to the extent necessary and essentially do not particularly care. If China wants to screw Tibet and Tibetans over any more than they already have, they will only destroy the roots of their spiritual heritage and eventually pay a huge price as a nation. They are too smart to do that ; else they would not have survived so long.
-desi-from-india.
sigint 12/5/2012 | 1:58:06 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing brahmos:

fortunately decades of self-destructive economic
isolation in India is over and that itself should
ensure 'peace & friendship' from china.

peace thru strength.
__________________________________________________

Well put. Now the real need is to *somehow* get rid of corruption in defence procurement in general. that would open the way for private companies in the defence sector, better pay, and better engineers. 10% or less of people employed in the defence labs are endowed with both competence and commitment. the deadwood floats up the ranks, and cripples projects.
brahmos 12/5/2012 | 1:58:07 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing > What's the chinese name for the Himalayas?

he has already said it was his last post.

Beijings stragtegy has always been to exert
pressure by other means (economic, political,
proliferation, terrorism) when a clear-cut military
resolution cannot be obtained , as the case
is on the Indo_tibetan border now. The 'peaceful
intent' is not a morality change but more a
case of waiting for the right conditions to emerge.

fortunately decades of self-destructive economic
isolation in India is over and that itself should
ensure 'peace & friendship' from china.

and ofcourse a few A3's will continue to lose
themselves in the vast hills and dales of india :)

peace thru strength.
sigint 12/5/2012 | 1:58:09 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing Indy,

What's the chinese name for the Himalayas?

thanks,
Sigint
sigint 12/5/2012 | 1:58:10 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing Indy_lite,

Thanks for the links. It's good to get a chinese perspective on this, without the use of invective.

But face the fact, "Peaceful liberation" of tibet, sounds awfully like the liberation of Iraq. If Tibet hadn't happened, China and India would still be friends. Possibly allies, and the most formidable power bloc on the planet. The misadventures in Tibet undid everything.

Similarly, claims about a "major" attack by the Indian forces in 1962 are a bit of a stretch. Everyone knows that the poorly equipped Indian army of those days wasn't really capable of launching a major offensive.

And, you can't possibly deny that china has armed pakistan, a major irritant for India.

China didn't really have to threaten peace in the region to achieve "peaceful settlement of the border dispute".
flam 12/5/2012 | 1:58:10 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing This will be my last message ever at LightReading:

Okay, thank you kindly.


EBAY is soaring, sad, I don't work for EBAY. I work for some crappy company that makes equipment to power the internet for EBAY to make all the money.. Time to change career!!


Huh?

Indy_lite 12/5/2012 | 1:58:12 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing This will be my last message ever at LightReading:

EBAY is soaring, sad, I don't work for EBAY. I work for some crappy company that makes equipment to power the internet for EBAY to make all the money.. Time to change career!!
Indy_lite 12/5/2012 | 1:58:13 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing And in some quixotic fashion, there seems to be serious differences of opinion between I and you, around the *exact* role of the English

I have stated several times in the past about the "English colonial trick of divide and rule". So there is no difference between you and me here. Unfortunately, brahmos seems to be still fooled by the English trick, as the whole thing started with msg #51 from brahmos: "india doesnt need to reach london or nyc, the targets are all in eastern coast of china. 5000km is enuf." The English trick is still working, and that is very sad - and that's the purpose of my post to wake the brahmos's up.

http://us.rediff.com/news/2002...

http://www.centurychina.com/pl...

http://www.china.org.cn/englis...
sigint 12/5/2012 | 1:58:15 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing Indy_lite:
It became an issue when Englishman illegally and violently left India, and with no culture and religion suppression from England, there emerged two enenmies between India and Pakistan.
__________________________________________________

Are you seriously telling us that you have no clue about the age-old English colonial trick of divide and rule? It worked beautifully in India, dividing the society along religious lines.

And in some quixotic fashion, there seems to be serious differences of opinion between I and you, around the *exact* role of the English ... Good heavens.
Indy_lite 12/5/2012 | 1:58:16 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing The border between India and Tibet was always an undemarcated border with the populations of each side moving across for trade, pilgrimage & education from time immemorial. The border became an issue after China illegally occupied the nation of Tibet and violently suppressed the culture and religion , committed genocide on the Tibetan population and started moving large numbers of Han chinese into Tibet.

The border between India and Pakistan was not an issue when English assigned officials to rule Indians at all levels, with the populations of each side moving across for trade, pilgrimage & education from time immemorial. There was no religious tension either.

It became an issue when Englishman illegally and violently left India, and with no culture and religion suppression from England, there emerged two enenmies between India and Pakistan. Each trying to be America/UK's friend at the other side's expense, and by all means. There is large number of population movement at hot spot Kashmia between India and Pakistan.

(China had trouble moving people from east coast to its northwest area, which is much better land than anywhere in the southwest, moving Han to Tibet ?)
jbagh 12/5/2012 | 1:58:17 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing Indy_Lite : The border that China recognizes is the border between [India/Pakistan] & China before[India/Pakistan] became slaves of UK. UK attempted to conquer Tibet afterwards, and thus created the border dispute, because India thought the UK's claim should be its own claim.
>>>>>> Tibet was a independent country and so there was no question of a border between India and China. The border between India and Tibet was always an undemarcated border with the populations of each side moving across for trade, pilgrimage & education from time immemorial. The border became an issue after China illegally occupied the nation of Tibet and violently suppressed the culture and religion , committed genocide on the Tibetan population and started moving large numbers of Han chinese into Tibet. The chinese followed this by killing Tibetans who were trying to escape repression by following the Dalai Lama to India. The main mistake stupid Nehru did was to not intervene militarily in Tibet in the early 50's when China attacked Tibet.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


Indy-Lite : In 1962, when Chairman Mao learned that Indians used to sell Opium in China under Englishman's name, and they are now trying claim land using the same Englishman's map.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Here you are revising history just to support your hatred of India. The "East India Company" that dumped opium in China was a English company with Englishmen controlling everything. Other than some Indians working in this company in clerical posts , Indians had no say in the trade.
The Opium was of course grown in the Company conquered territory of Bengal, where the English forced the Indians to replace food crops with opium which they could forcefully dump in China.
This caused famines in India and of course terrible damage in China. My own sympathies are with China in this episode. But it is disingenuous of you to blame the opium trade war on Indians ( whatever be your grouse with Indians ) when both Indians and Chinese were victims of English imperialism. ( I suggest you read the book "Late Victorian Holocausts by Mike Davis " to get a better understanding of this ).
>>>>>>>>>>>>

Indy_Lite : He ordered Chinese troops to teach the English dark dogs a leasson. A month later, Chinese troops were walking on New Deli's streets.
>>>>>>> Granted the Chinese won the 62 war in terms of their limited strategic aims , but they never got anywhere near New Delhi. It is however true that the Sikh and Bengal Regiments did walk thru the streets of Peking during the Boxer rebellion. From what I read in the various historical books about the Boxer rebellion , the chinese ladies were quiet attracted to these dark turbanned soldiers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
brahmos 12/5/2012 | 1:58:19 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing yesh like I said, trade and people contacts can
flourish (china-japan/india/korea/usa) even when
N-missiles are pointed at each other. so no
need to fly off the handle at the "shocking" (to you) revelation that India is doing precisely what china has done for sometime now -- point a knife at india directly from tibet and yunnan and
via pak.

I think shanghai or shenzhen would be a fair
trade for bangalore or delhi. let the matter remain there.


sigint 12/5/2012 | 1:58:20 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing Indy_lite (in post 59):
He ordered Chinese troops to teach the "English dark dogs" a leasson. A month later, Chinese troops were walking on New Deli's streets.
__________________________________________________

Is this statement not a racist slur, in violation of this board's stated policy?
sigint 12/5/2012 | 1:58:20 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing Indy_lite:
The border that China recognizes is the border between [India/Pakistan] & China before[India/Pakistan] became slaves of UK. UK attempted to conquer Tibet afterwards, and thus created the border dispute, because India thought the UK's claim should be its own claim.
__________________________________________________
Indy_lite, take a breath of fresh air, and consider this very carefully - you do have a point, the border dispute had been inherited from colonial masters. However, rewriting history with force (or correcting perceived historical wrongs) is hardly a solution.

At one time the Mongols ruled nearly all of china, right up to the middle east. If today, by some miracle, mongolia acquired the status of a superpower, would they be justified in claiming by force, what was the LARGEST empire in recorded history. Think about it.

Neither I, nor you, had an aorta of control over the what the british did, or didn't do. Why fret and fume over it NOW?
sigint 12/5/2012 | 1:58:21 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing brahmos:
Beijing has adjusted its position now and decided
to be more peaceful now that they know we have a
sharp knife too. Indo-China trade grew 100% last
year and will again grow near 100% this year.
__________________________________________________

The first realisation of what India "could" do, dawned on Chinese mandarins in in the late 80s border skirmishes, when Gen Sundarji did "Sumdorong Chu" to them, airlifting an entire brigade in a matter of hours. This, wasn't the India of the 1962.

Peaceful is the way to go - the last two generations of Indians do not carry the bitterness of 1962, and although history in Indian textbooks is a bit "colours", there are plenty of sources of information. We thus can afford a more balanced view.

However, the views of indy_lite indicate that the situation is very different in China. propoganda seems to have been imbibed very deep, and I wonder what history is taught.

Any rational chinese folks that did their schooling in china care to comment?

Thanks,
Sigint
brahmos 12/5/2012 | 1:58:29 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing Japan, S Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, Krygzstan listed along English running dog ? The people in these countries will put you dogs in their BBQ grill! Tell me since when Japna, Taiwan, Singapore, Korea have been a friend with India ?

------

rough language indy_lite, but I shall be patient.

you see japan, s.korea, taiwan, singapore, krygzstan, tajikistan are very firmly US allies.
the first 4 have access to all the latest US goodies like upcoming limited missile defence thing. India has also much improved her relations
with the West politically (they were always cordial at economic level) and very much a part
of the ring-of-steel.

any chinese adventurism or attempt to expand her
hegemony will be met with quality forces and weapons....just like Japan was crushed eventually
in the colonial era of WW2.

as of now, most of chinas oil imports pass thru
3000km of india's backyard via the indian ocean.
So that a sharp little knife we have on the
jaguar veil (er jugular).

US has "outsourced" policing of the IOR region
esp the Malacca straits mostly to singapore
and india. japan and korea will guard the rest
of the way north.

a large number of naval exercises are being held
these days between singapore, india, Us, uk, france in the region. just last week 10 ships (9 french, 1 uk) had a exercise, this week 2 uk ships
are in madras for another exercise.

Beijing has attempted to respond by buying up Pak
pre 9-11 and had hopes of establishing a naval
post in gwader at mouth of persian gulf, however
the US put more money on table and bought Pak
back after 9-11, so there goes that dream too...straight down the flush.


after decades of undermining India via a low cost
approach (maoist guerillas, pak), Beijing was
sitting pretty in 1998. and then they were horrified when a set of events took place.
* india tested nukular devices
* india now has Agni2 to target eastern china with, soon we shall test Agni3 to go after north
east corner of china.
* pak got bought back by usa
* IOR policeman post got outsourced to india.
* indian economy started to grow strongly.
* long term indian defence R&D progs started to
bear fruit.

Beijing has adjusted its position now and decided
to be more peaceful now that they know we have a
sharp knife too. Indo-China trade grew 100% last
year and will again grow near 100% this year.

so good trading relationship backed up by MAD is
possible, so dont get into abusive mode here...
....


Indy_lite 12/5/2012 | 1:58:30 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing the encirclement of china by a "fellowship of the ring" India, Japan, S.korea, Taiwan, Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, Krygzstan and a suspicious Russia (they fear takeover of Far east resources) is now complete :-)

There is nothing more ridiculours than brahmos! Japan, S Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, Krygzstan listed along English running dog ? The people in these countries will put you dogs in their BBQ grill! Tell me since when Japna, Taiwan, Singapore, Korea have been a friend with India ? You probably can not even find a hotel in these places (not becaue there is no vacacy).

Go ahead and be jealous against your brother Pakistan - tell the US to be India's friend, not Pakistan's. Is this all India can and will do ?
rjs 12/5/2012 | 1:58:33 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing I kinda miss BobbyMax's rantings
after listening to Indy_lite.

Atleast with BM you knew to ignore what
he said on all fronts. Indy_lite sadly, I must
say, does post nice technical points. But this
last few threads of his are completely out of whack.
I sure hope he would clean up so that I don't have
to treat him as an amusement.

I don't know if Indy_lite is a result of PLA of China education or just going through an angry
phase that every one of us goes through but I hope
he sticks to contributing to the technical discussions on this board.

-rjs
brahmos 12/5/2012 | 1:58:33 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing > In 5000 years of history, China never once
>targeted India (even today), if it did, India
>would have been history.

I am sorry you are so ill-educated about ur own
country (I presume you are a product of the
chinese school system).

China has worked more methodically and assiduously to undermine Indias security situation than anyone else on this planet.
These include but not limited to:

1. supplying nuclear tech and devices to Pakistan.
2. supplying the means of delivery to Pakistan
both directly and facilitating it via N.korea
(missiles)
3. a vast and unrestricted supply of infantry
weapons (rifles, grenades, explosives, RPGs) to
every 2-bit Maoist revolutionary front in the world with no questions asked. This stretches from latin america to the far east. All the terrorist fronts running around in nepal, india, bangladesh use chinese supplied arms.
4. destablizing and turning Myanmar(Burma) into
a army ruled country by propping up the military
Junta in rangoon. in exchange chinese have been
allowed access to Myanmar ports and established
SIGINT posts on Coco island in bay of bengal.

No country just passes out nuke tech without
discussions and approval from the highest levels.
Sometime during the early 1980s the beijing Politburo led by Deng Xiaoping signed off on the
transfer of such to Pak. The US decided to turn
a blind eye to it (fateful move) because it was
busy waging a proxy war in afghanistan via Pak.
Now the consequences of that move are seen by
all.

However inspite of all these machinations, India
is still there and a firm ally of the US/Uk/west
now.

the encirclement of china by a "fellowship of the
ring" India, Japan, S.korea, Taiwan, Singapore,
Malaysia, Thailand, Krygzstan and a suspicious
Russia (they fear takeover of Far east resources)
is now complete :-)

you really have brought it on yourself. If you
want more of a caning let me know, I shall reluctantly oblige.

Aryabhatta 12/5/2012 | 1:58:47 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing Don't give in to the temptation of critique a nation when you can always critique the offender. Moreover Indy_lite doesn't represent US of A.
sigint 12/5/2012 | 1:58:48 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing Indy_lite:
A month later, Chinese troops were walking on New Deli's streets.
__________________________________________________

I see that the Peoples' army has done a good job of "educating" you. China did take territory from India, but not without using her people as cannon fodder (6,000 Indian casualties, vs. 30,000 chinese).

this kind of war-mongering is disgusting. Chairman Mao screwed china much more than he could India, and yet, you spout praise for him. Nehru was an arsehole to trust that two bit dictator.
routerbox 12/5/2012 | 1:58:48 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing >Translation: Indians like the English/American
>to sit on their neck, eat their shit, and be
>their slave.

Really? How amusing? For all the posts that is see on LR, yours are the must ludicrous.

>In 5000 years of history, China never once
>targeted India (even today), if it did, India

Go through the annals of history before you make fool of yourself in a public forum. Google for "India China War" - and that should give you the answer! I wonder when i see (mostly yours) such posts if people actually think for a minute before hitting the "reply" button!

Apart from the direct war in 1962-63, China has helped Pakistan on several occasions against India.

>would have been history. Yet, from top to
>bottom, Indians seem to be interested in being
>China's enemy. From the time in the 1850s being
>English's dog growing opium to today's
>politicians like Fernados to stupid brahmos.

Atleast you dont find an Indian Prime Minister having his private parts being played with (I could have given the exact word, but i refrained myself) from his secretary in his office, like the US President. Indy, I could go on, but again i dont see the utility of such discussions. This is a technical forum and i believe we must let it remain one.

>I will tell you, India will be crushed if does
>anything to China - mark this word. Otherwise,

DO you really think people give a shit at what you say? With the amount of shitting that you do, it must be pretty messy and stinking for the people around you.

>it will crushed by its HIV people - #1 in the
>world.

DO you know that US has the highest ratio of obese, hypertense, high blood pressure, etc people in this world. The only place where 10 year olds are heard of shooting their class mates, etc. Once again, let me not give in to the temptation of stooping to your levels. Let us maintain the sanctity of LR, and discuss only technical issues.

Router Box
sigint 12/5/2012 | 1:58:49 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing jim_smith:
Is any of you called Dr. Khan? If so, I would be interested in buying some nuclear secrets from you :-)
__________________________________________________

Have a little patience. With the growing proximity between Pakistan and the US, very soon, you might be able to buy nukes on ebay.
startup_shutup 12/5/2012 | 1:58:49 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing Does the "New Economy" Measure up to the Great Inventions of the Past? (published version)
Journal of Economic Perspectives, vol.4, no.14 (Fall 2000), pp. 49-74.

http://faculty-web.at.northwes...

Better yet, read ALL research papers

http://faculty-web.at.northwes...


Indy_lite 12/5/2012 | 1:58:54 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing I think the statement only reflects the strategic compulsions. India and China share a common border and they don't agree with each other on where it is.

The border that China recognizes is the border between [India/Pakistan] & China before[India/Pakistan] became slaves of UK. UK attempted to conquer Tibet afterwards, and thus created the border dispute, because India thought the UK's claim should be its own claim. In 1962, when Chairman Mao learned that Indians used to sell Opium in China under Englishman's name, and they are now trying claim land using the same Englishman's map. He ordered Chinese troops to teach the English dark dogs a leasson. A month later, Chinese troops were walking on New Deli's streets.
Aryabhatta 12/5/2012 | 1:58:55 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing india doesnt need to reach london or nyc, the
targets are all in eastern coast of china. 5000km
is enuf.
--------------------------------------------
I think the statement only reflects the strategic compulsions. India and China share a common border and they don't agree with each other on where it is. America/English don't have any such contentious issues with India.

Hating Chinese or loving Americans is not India's favourite pass time. On the other hand, Indians do watch American as well as Chinese movies (in spite of having a strong local movie industry). Indians do buy American as well as Chinese products.

And I don't think China can crush India (if at all it can) without doing enormous damage to itself. After the attempt no one will want to live in China.
edgesansonet 12/5/2012 | 1:58:56 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing For me, its interest. Remember DARPANET derived into Internet. Military communications used in satellites, missiles, networks etc., some times is more cutting-edge than Industry technology.
/ESS
Indy_lite 12/5/2012 | 1:58:57 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing india doesnt need to reach london or nyc, the
targets are all in eastern coast of china. 5000km
is enuf.


Translation: Indians like the English/American to sit on their neck, eat their shit, and be their slave.

In 5000 years of history, China never once targeted India (even today), if it did, India would have been history. Yet, from top to bottom, Indians seem to be interested in being China's enemy. From the time in the 1850s being English's dog growing opium to today's politicians like Fernados to stupid brahmos.

I will tell you, India will be crushed if does anything to China - mark this word. Otherwise, it will crushed by its HIV people - #1 in the world.
jim_smith 12/5/2012 | 1:59:00 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing What's a discussion about missiles doing on LR?

All of you seem very interested and knowledgeable (although I couldn't tell whether you were BSing or telling the truth) about missile technology...

Does your background include working on sensitive military technologies or is this just a passing interest?

Is any of you called Dr. Khan? If so, I would be interested in buying some nuclear secrets from you :-)
sigint 12/5/2012 | 1:59:01 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing edgesansonet:

1. You talked about stratospheric civilian transport. This may not be possible what with the ozone layer depletion happening in that layer. Most flights (commercial and military) even now only use the troposphere for navigation.

2.Wonder what will happen to the environment around us with increased flight travel.
__________________________________________________

1. Right - but this was an exploration for the future, I guess.

2. The idea is to use cryogenic fuels, with the only emission being water. That should reduce pollution, I suppose.
edgesansonet 12/5/2012 | 1:59:03 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing Sigint,
You talked about stratospheric civilian transport. This may not be possible what with the ozone layer depletion happening in that layer. Most flights (commercial and military) even now only use the troposphere for navigation.
Wonder what will happen to the environment around us with increased flight travel.
\ESS
sigint 12/5/2012 | 1:59:08 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing yamdoot:
sigint: you are talking to the enemy here. Let
them do their own research.
__________________________________________________

there are no enemies, yamdoot. only incovenient neighbours. the easiest way around is to broker amity.
brahmos 12/5/2012 | 1:59:09 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/...
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/...

like I said, all agni series are solid fueled.
sometimes a small liquid engine is used in the
re-entry vehicle (bus+warhead) for terminal manouvers and to extend range (most ICBMs have that feature).

india doesnt need to reach london or nyc, the
targets are all in eastern coast of china. 5000km
is enuf.
Indy_lite 12/5/2012 | 1:59:25 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing Ciena lays off 1/4 - 450 people, all goes to India's Wipro ? This is exactly what the PBS series said. Developed nation (except the USA) srinked population goes India and Kenya's exploding population.
Indy_lite 12/5/2012 | 1:59:52 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing PBS will air series "Time Bomb" on the population problem between the industrialized nations and developing countries - one shrinking, one exploding, & the consequences. If you live in the SF Bay Area, it will be aired on Tuesday, 4/20/2004, at 8:00PM.

<hr>
ACM World College programming contest 2004, official results http://icpc.baylor.edu/past/ic.... Outsorcing should follow the result ?

1 St. Petersburg U of Info Tech, Mechanics & Optics (Russia)
2. KTH - Royal Institute of Technology (Sweden)
3. Belarusian State University (Belarusia)
4. Perm State University (Russia)
5. Massachusetts Institute of Technology (USA)
6. National Taiwan University (Taiwan, China)
7. California Institute of Technology (USA)
8. Izhevsk State Technical University (Russia)
9. Harvard University (USA)
10 Warsaw University (Poland)
11. ZhongShan (Sun Yat-sen) University (China)
12. Queen's University (Canada)
13. Shanghai Jiaotong University (China)
13. Stanford University (USA)
15. Fudan University (China)
15. Korea Advanced Institute of Science & Tech
15. Kyrgyz-Russian Slavic University (Kyrgyzstan)
15. Nizhny Novgorod State University (Russia)
15. Seoul National University (Korea)
15. Universitat Polit&#37971;nica de Catalunya (Spain)
15. University of British Columbia (Canada)
15. University of Calgary (Canada)
15. University of Cape Town (South Africa)
15. University of New South Wales (Australia)
15. University of Waterloo (Canada)
15. Zhejiang University (China)
27. Albert Einstein University Ulm (Germany)
27. Amirkabir University of Technology
27. Bangladesh University of Engineering & Technology
27. Charles University Prague
27. Donghua University
27. Jagiellonian University - Krakow
27. Nanyang Technological University
27. Norwegian University of Science and Technology
27. Novosibirsk State University
27. Petrozavodsk State University
27. St. Petersburg State University
27. Tokyo Institute of Technology
27. University of Michigan - Ann Arbor
27. University of Otago
27. University of Tartu
27. University of Texas at Austin
27. Yonsei University

Honorable Mention
Brigham Young University
Sofia University St. Kliment Ohridski
Bucharest University
South Dakota School of Mines and Technology
Cairo University
The Johns Hopkins University
Cornell University
The University of Hong Kong
Duke University
Tsinghua University
Georgia Institute of Technology
Universidad Sim&#39623; Bol&#38875;ar
ITESM - Campus Monterrey
Universidad de Palermo
Illinois Institute of Technology
Universidad de las Am&#38302;icas - Puebla
Indian Institute of Technology - Bombay
Universidade Estadual de Campinas
Institute of Technology and Management
Universidade Federal de Pernambuco
LeTourneau University
University of Central Florida
Michigan Technological University
University of Illinois
Moscow State University
University of Minnesota - Twin Cities
Sharif University of Technology
University of Wisconsin - Madison
Shippensburg University
Virginia Tech
Messiah College
University of Wisconsin - Parkside

http://icpc.baylor.edu/past/ic...
yamdoot 12/5/2012 | 2:00:02 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing >> From my days at a research institute, I remember talking to chaps at the propellant facility about some new concept vehicle (civilian or military), which "manufactures" (or perhaps gathers) it's own fuel, with primary application in ICBMs or stratosperic civilian transport. I don't know what became of that.

sigint: you are talking to the enemy here. Let
them do their own research.
sigint 12/5/2012 | 2:00:03 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing edgesansonet:
Are you sure? I read that A2 is liquid propellant and A3 is solid propellant. May be, I am wrong. I remember that India does not have a solid propellant based long-range IRBM. And it is working on it (A3??)
__________________________________________________

It certainly isn't cryogenic, if that's what you're getting to.

From my days at a research institute, I remember talking to chaps at the propellant facility about some new concept vehicle (civilian or military), which "manufactures" (or perhaps gathers) it's own fuel, with primary application in ICBMs or stratosperic civilian transport. I don't know what became of that.
sigint 12/5/2012 | 2:00:05 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing edgesansonet:
A bunch of CSS-4s point at USA. Range for the CSS-4s exceeds 7500 miles (good enough to strike coastal parts of USA).
________________________________________________

why would china wish to "bite the hand that feeds it"? :-)
agnes! 12/5/2012 | 2:00:07 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing guys, if a company doesn't outsource, with the current economy in US it might find it difficult to survive. also, with the shortage of hi-tech workers in US, US might have to import more engineers on h1 which might not be cost effective for the companies.
indians r good in maths n logic, hence, they perform good in hi-tech. indians have played very vital roles in US economy - there r lot of startups by Indians in the silicon Valley. People like Arun Netravali, Vinod Khosla, Sabeer Bhatia, Gururaj Deshpande have strengthened the US economy thru their contributions.
After all, US has been built by immigrants....be it europeans, africans, south americans or asians....
startup_shutup 12/5/2012 | 2:00:10 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing http://flipdog.monster.com/js/...

C++, Unix Internals-Team Lead

Additional Information
Salary: INR 600,000.00 to INR 2,300,000.00 per year
==========

INR 2,300,000.00 is pretty good salary
edgesansonet 12/5/2012 | 2:00:23 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing >> chronologically.
>> A2 - 2500km
>> A1 - 800km
>> A3 (to be tested this year) - 4000-4500km.
>> the diff is in range, all are solid fuel, all >> are road/rail mobile. payload is 1ton.

Are you sure? I read that A2 is liquid propellant and A3 is solid propellant. May be, I am wrong. I remember that India does not have a solid propellant based long-range IRBM. And it is working on it (A3??)

Also, much as China uses South and East China Seas for deploying its navy-based nuclear missiles (Japan/USA/Taiwan), it seems that India intends to use the Bay of Bengal and the Arabian Sea for targeting Pakistan and China. But, India does not have a sea-based launch mechanism for its missiles unlike China. May be, Brahmos is a first.

\ESS
edgesansonet 12/5/2012 | 2:00:25 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing Another thing I have noticed is you specify all ranges in km and not miles. That makes it even shorter, doesn't it?
\ESS
edgesansonet 12/5/2012 | 2:00:25 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing Brahmos,
I know similar superficial stuff about the Chinese missile program. The Chinese have CSS-1 which is not a cruise missile but is for lower ranges. CSS-2 is an IRBM. The CSS-3 and 4 are ICBMs. I am sure a number of CSS-2s and 3s point at India. A bunch of CSS-4s point at USA. Range for the CSS-4s exceeds 7500 miles (good enough to strike coastal parts of USA).
Does India have any ICBMs at all? What is Surya?
\ESS
brahmos 12/5/2012 | 2:00:27 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing > Does this mean this missile is not anti-
> submarine?

right.

>Seems like they have not developed any ICBMs as
> yet but they do have IRBMs.

true. india has decided for now not to target
its biggest trading partners usa, eu, japan is
a wise policy.

> Isn't AGNI what they call their IRBM? And there > seem to be two different versions of this IRBM?

chronologically.
A2 - 2500km
A1 - 800km
A3 (to be tested this year) - 4000-4500km.

the diff is in range, all are solid fuel, all are
road/rail mobile. payload is 1ton.
alcaseltzer 12/5/2012 | 2:00:29 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing >BTW, what word (besides "Thw") did I mess up, Mr. Part 3?

"Now I don't want to give out names here, but I worked in the Performance Engg group there, so the people who know of whom I am talking of... slap him on the face!!"

Should be "the people who know of whom I am talking...slap him" - one too many "of"s


Does this laissez-faire attitude in LU eng permeate to the SW developers as well?
edgesansonet 12/5/2012 | 2:00:29 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing >> Brahmos is a derivative of the Yakhont russian
>> anti-ship missile using indian computers. its
>> prime role is anti-ship. range lo-lo-lo is
>> 120km and lo-hi-lo is ~300km. top speed is
>> around mach3 using its ramjet.

Brahmos,
Does this mean this missile is not anti-submarine?
I have read about the Indian missile program. Seems like they have not developed any ICBMs as yet but they do have IRBMs.
Isn't AGNI what they call their IRBM? And there seem to be two different versions of this IRBM? The difference seems to be in the kind of propellant. Correct me here.
\ESS

brahmos 12/5/2012 | 2:00:33 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing ok I am LR's leading 'expert' on these matters.

Tomahawk sacrifices raw speed for range + payload
and relies on a terrain hugging flight profile to
evade the defences. it uses a outstanding micro
Turbofan engine from Williams Inc (the pioneer and
world leader in this field). depending on version
the tomahawks and the Boeing ALCM can cover 1500-2000km. The equivalent concept from Russia is the Raduga KH55 & SS-N-21 Sampson.

Brahmos is a derivative of the Yakhont russian
anti-ship missile using indian computers. its
prime role is anti-ship. range lo-lo-lo is 120km
and lo-hi-lo is ~300km. top speed is around mach3
using its ramjet. It is being adapted to fire on
land targets using terrain contour matching, GPS
etc. india has signed up to revive the Russian
GLONASS constellation and will get mil-std signals from these (US doesnt permit non-NATO types to get the mil-std GPS signal).

Klub is also used by india. its entirely made by
Novator of russia. It uses a subsonic rocket engine for initial phase of low-flying 250km, for
last 50km stage separation takes place and the
supersonic terminal stage boosts speed to mach3.2

fwiw China has also ordered Kilo subs equipped with Klubs, but Brahmos is india-specific so I
took that name!
desikar 12/5/2012 | 2:00:35 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing
Followed the link posted by the LR "brahmos", and found this a bit surprising. Is this really true, that the Brahmos will be faster than the Tomahawk?

---------quoting from a press release on the brahmos website-----------------

"Sources also say no cruise missile in the world can match the capabilities of BrahMos. The Russian-made Moskit supersonic cruise missile (with a range of 120 km) is a bulky system and China has purchased the same and inducted it into two warships.
Another Russian product G Club missile G is a sub-sonic weapon with a supersonic hit and is inducted by Indian Navy. Even the much-talked about American Tomahawk missiles too are sub-sonic which can only fly at one-third speed of BrahMos.
GǣDuring the recent Gulf war, the Americans fired too many Tomahawks against Iraqi targets. No doubt itGs a lethal weapon, but the number of right hits per launch matters most,Gǥ sources said. "
sigint 12/5/2012 | 2:00:37 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing brahmos:
_LULU_ do you have any insight into how LU india
unit is doing ? I am looking around for a job in
india and thinking if I should apply there...bear
in mind I am sorely lacking in political skills 8)
__________________________________________________

brahmos,

from what I hear, some new projects have been started out here in Bangalore. however, pessimism still persists among employees and plenty of resumes from LU have been floating around.

depending, of course, on your specific job functions, I'd recommend looking around at TI, Intel, and a whole bunch of CA based start-ups.

hope this helps.
Sigint

tiredofyouwhiners 12/5/2012 | 2:00:38 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing Thurston my dear,

The worst posts are from those like you who complain about spelling and grammar and offer no value to the discussion. People like you have been polluting the internet since the very first mailing lists and usenet groups (before it was The Internet).

Tired ...
brahmos 12/5/2012 | 2:00:39 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing > Surely you're joking, Mr. Brahmos.

no I am serious. I have an open mind on LU always
willing to gain insights here.

> BTW, what does "brahmos" mean?

its a indo-russian mach3 ramjet cruise missile.
details here: http://www.brahmos.com/home.ht...


flam 12/5/2012 | 2:00:40 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing _LULU_ do you have any insight into how LU india
unit is doing ? I am looking around for a job in
india and thinking if I should apply there...bear
in mind I am sorely lacking in political skills 8)


Surely you're joking, Mr. Brahmos.

BTW, what does "brahmos" mean?
lighten up!! 12/5/2012 | 2:00:42 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing You just gave away your identity as one of those LU managers. You are obviously not a very smart man after all.
ThurstonHowell3rd 12/5/2012 | 2:00:42 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing Hey Lighten Up...

Step away from the keyboard and shut the #@$^! up!
brahmos 12/5/2012 | 2:01:03 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing _LULU_ do you have any insight into how LU india
unit is doing ? I am looking around for a job in
india and thinking if I should apply there...bear
in mind I am sorely lacking in political skills 8)

_LULU_ 12/5/2012 | 2:01:05 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing sigint:
Sorry, if I'm touching a raw nerve here. How does a company decide whom to layoff? Isn't it based on redundancy or performance?
-------------------------------------------

Performance!! Hah! I guess you have yet to learn the beast that is LU!!! It is the biggest redundant BS out there. Its all about whom you know and how much you can market yourself. Thats what Westford was reduced to... engineers, managers and executives trying to "shine"... trying to grab projects, credit, point fingers for failed projects etc.
_LULU_ 12/5/2012 | 2:01:05 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing Thurston Howell Part III wrote:

Obviously spelling is still considered a black art at Lucent????????
--------------------------------------------

Hmmmm are we discussing outsourcing etc. or critiquing the language structure and spellings of each others posts? Go to a English Grammar msg board if you want to do so... else pipe down and suck it.

A errant keypress here an errant keypress there can lead to a some errors... but WHO THE F**K CARES.

BTW, what word (besides "Thw") did I mess up, Mr. Part 3?
truelight 12/5/2012 | 2:01:07 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing Sadly it is not the executives that pay the price.

US management culture is in the sewer IMO. A smiley face and yes men seem to be destroying the countries high-tech industry.

Look at your current CEO and ask what does this guy stand for and where is he not-leading us !
truelight 12/5/2012 | 2:01:07 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing Signit wrote:

Sorry, if I'm touching a raw nerve here. How does a company decide whom to layoff? Isn't it based on redundancy or performance?
_____________

It is based on "who you know" and not "what you know" and "can you be replaced". Friendship, how much you kiss ass, threat of lawsuits (esp. females and older folks) play an important part in the decision making process.




lighten up!! 12/5/2012 | 2:01:08 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing It basically demonstrates the short-sighted mentality of most clueless executives who couldn't find their way out of a paper bag if their own jobs were outsourced. These idiots will drive most companies to the ground because they haven't got a clue as to how to run a profitable business. Their costs are high because of their fat salaries and incompetence. You can't fix this problem and hide your sins by outsourcing, sooner or later you'll have to pay the piper and that day is coming...
marete 12/5/2012 | 2:01:09 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing
It's too bad that you were laid off based on your nationality. In my case at Lucent Westford, a while ago, we were informed it was based on cancellation of the Oz project, though I understand that a handful of folks were kept on... Though not sure whether they were mostly of Chinese or Indian nationality.
ThurstonHowell3rd 12/5/2012 | 2:01:11 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing LULU Wrote:

"I got whacked by my Chinese manager at LU Westford in favor of someone of his nationality. Thw funny thing was this employee had joined the group only 2-3 weeks before!! Now I don't want to give out names here, but I worked in the Performance Engg group there, so the people who know of whom I am talking of... slap him on the face!!"

Obviously spelling is still considered a black art at Lucent????????
sigint 12/5/2012 | 2:01:11 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing _LULU_ said:
Thw funny thing was this employee had joined the group only 2-3 weeks before!! Now I don't want to give out names here, but I worked in the Performance Engg group there, so the people who know of whom I am talking of... slap him on the face!!
__________________________________________________

Sorry, if I'm touching a raw nerve here. How does a company decide whom to layoff? Isn't it based on redundancy or performance?

And, if you had reason to believe that you were terminated based on considerations other than performance or pecuniary, why didn't you consider a lawsuit of some sort?

I have seen some hiring in India based on parochial considerations. However, I haven't seen any firing based on such things. Personal equation with the manager does matter, however. Probably more so than in the US.

Sigint
_LULU_ 12/5/2012 | 2:01:12 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing Post by "zoinks!"....

2) Chinese managers that would hire only Chinese engineers ... and "seemed" to layoff only the white engineer (I know thats a big accusation)
----------------------------------------

Hey I can relate to that... I got whacked by my Chinese manager at LU Westford in favor of someone of his nationality. Thw funny thing was this employee had joined the group only 2-3 weeks before!! Now I don't want to give out names here, but I worked in the Performance Engg group there, so the people who know of whom I am talking of... slap him on the face!!
dash_riprock 12/5/2012 | 2:01:14 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing Unfortunately, globalization has many other faces as well. If it is only about producing where it is most cost effective, then there would not be any car companies other than a handful of a few in Japan, Germany, US, because if the Toyota/Ford/GM/Honda... truely use up its capacity, then everyone in the world can have car; Globalization does not change the fact that there is boundary between countries. Otherwise, F-16s should be produced in Africa, or even more, there won't be patent office to protect rights
-------------------------------------------------

Good post. I agree with what you say.
About F-16's in Africa just want to add that the South African avionics and industry was highly advanced back during the days of the embargo.
Due to necessity almost all the aircraft flown by the SAAF ( Mirage F1 and 111 and the indigenously designed Impala) were locally manufactured.
Moral of the story : most nations with even a small and reasonably educated workforce can " circle the wagons" if that want to and create any advanced engineering product.
And for a country like the US ( unlike say Jpan or Germany) where trade contributes < 5% to the GDP, it could'nt be very difficult to kiss the rest of the world goodbye and go its own way.

-Dash


brahmos 12/5/2012 | 2:01:21 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing ok ok I was just rabble rousing as usual with
that untermenschen comment :-) but its true a
section of people think that way, although most
of them are outside the tech industry and havent
had any contact with indic/chinese people.

> we should boycott these large companies taking
> advantage of the poor countries, and taking our
> jobs away from us! HP and IBM are the worst
> with this

but that would mean pretty much boycotting any
company. You wouldnt be able to get on the internet if you threw out microsoft, cisco, intel,
sun, oracle, hp all of them have big centers abroad.

Indy_lite 12/5/2012 | 2:01:22 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing Extract from an Interview by Narayanamurthy - Chief of Infosys

John Roberts: With the offshore backlash, what do you think should be the strategy of the industry to address that right now?

N R Narayana Murthy: Globalization is about producing where it is most cost effective, sourcing capital from where it's cheapest and selling it where it is most profitable. We shouldn't be constrained by an international backlash.

A smart journalist in Australia asked me a question at a press conference, "You
guys are taking all our jobs to India. You should be thrown out." I told him I use an LG refrigerator at home in India, I drink Pepsi and Coke though we had our own Indian drinks, I use a GM car where we had a vibrant automobile industry, and so forth. I use Cisco routers and a Toshiba tablet PC which are imported, so do you think we should throw all these companies out?
<hr>
Unfortunately, globalization has many other faces as well. If it is only about producing where it is most cost effective, then there would not be any car companies other than a handful of a few in Japan, Germany, US, because if the Toyota/Ford/GM/Honda... truely use up its capacity, then everyone in the world can have car; Globalization does not change the fact that there is boundary between countries. Otherwise, F-16s should be produced in Africa, or even more, there won't be patent office to protect rights.
vinu 12/5/2012 | 2:01:25 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing again i contest this.....
there r so many indians out there in the persian gulf (saudi arabia, baharin, kuwait.....) who do all the work u were mentioning.....
we have been outsourcing every type of jobs.....
its that u guys in the US (believe u r from the US....) have seen only one face....
and that is probably y we in india have got things so right in the tech offshoring also......
vinu 12/5/2012 | 2:01:25 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing oh please.....
u want to enjoy cheap goods and services..... but u got to know that nothing comes cheap..... u have to pay the cost in the long run.....
the offshoring is just one of the faces of globalization that is proving to be unpopular in the developed world as its affecting the most vocal parts of the society...... the middle class.....
but out here in india (and many other 3rd world countries) we see another face of it..... the destruction of the lives of farmers and of the village economy...... and this has to do with the massive subsidies that the devoloped nations give to their farmers.....
u can't tell us (the devoloping countries....) that we open our agriculture and food sectors but u will still have ur economy closed to us... come on we too got to run our economy....
this message was quite well presented in the lattest WEF meetings......
so please look at offshoring in the wider context of where the global economy is going and adapt to the changing world....or change the global order itself...
i am sure there is a hell lot of other things that u guys can do and to remain employed......
msiva 12/5/2012 | 2:01:25 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing You can find Indians with that kind of skillsets in Dubai and other Arab countries. They are smart - they know which contry needs (in shortage of) which type of workers and go accordingly.

*****************

Extract from an Interview by Narayanamurthy - Chief of Infosys

John Roberts: With the offshore backlash, what do you think should be the strategy of the industry to address that right now?

N R Narayana Murthy: Globalization is about producing where it is most cost effective, sourcing capital from where it's cheapest and selling it where it is most profitable. We shouldn't be constrained by an international backlash.

A smart journalist in Australia asked me a question at a press conference, "You
guys are taking all our jobs to India. You should be thrown out." I told him I use an LG refrigerator at home in India, I drink Pepsi and Coke though we had our own Indian drinks, I use a GM car where we had a vibrant automobile industry, and so forth. I use Cisco routers and a Toshiba tablet PC which are imported, so do you think we should throw all these companies out?

I gave him the positive side of all this.

****************
truelight 12/5/2012 | 2:01:26 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing ATM point taken.

The shortage of high-tech workers in the nineties justified the visa. Indians are very good software programmers. In general the Indians/Chiense that enter this country are degree level educated. You do see a lot of Mexicans in CA working in such roles tho and they are nearly all illegal.





fair_juror 12/5/2012 | 2:01:29 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing ATMRules said:
Why do I never see any Indians swinging a hammer? Funny I don't see any Indian electricians....as a matter of fact I don't see any Indian plumbers, cops...ambulance medic, city employees...
--------------------------------------------

Please see the work visa (e.g. H1) rules. If you see non-Americans being electricians, plumbers and swinging hammers it means they must be illegal immigrants. You can't get a H1B visa to be a plumber or electrician or cop etc. Similarly you won't get a visa if you want to work at/set up a 7/11. You may also want to refer to the requirements for a business visa (B1).

Suggestion: you see few Indians in such places because Indians are more law-abiding/law-fearing and don't tend to immigrate illegally.

ATMRules 12/5/2012 | 2:01:29 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing Why do I never see any Indians swinging a hammer? Funny I don't see any Indian electricians....as a matter of fact I don't see any Indian plumbers, cops...ambulance medic, city employees...

All I ever see is Indian software engineers or Doctor's...oh there is of course the usual exceptions....minding the store at the 7-11...of course they just don't work there...they own it.....oh I forgot they've got the Airport jobs locked down too........
telecomvalleydotnet 12/5/2012 | 2:01:31 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing Now why the hell would I want to go to work in India? Get a lower wage, and live in a dirty scummy place? Yeah sounds like a great idea.

Outsourcing is wrong and we should boycott these large companies taking advantage of the poor countries, and taking our jobs away from us! HP and IBM are the worst with this.
truelight 12/5/2012 | 2:01:33 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing Pelease Kamalpr, I did not get of the banana boat...

The policy is not practised. If so have someone in Wipro publish the number of non-Indian versus indian employees.

Everyone knows that living standard in India is not as good as that in the USA to put it mildy.

My point of technology racism is that offshoring while boosting the India economy is denting the US hi-tech with little room for movement. I'm not Indian....but understand the high caliber talent of folks in India and the business drivers - I would do these same if I was Indian.

IMO I see the US tech-industry bogged down in a quagmire which will ultimatley effect other countries.

dadofamunky 12/5/2012 | 2:01:33 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing Speak for yourself. Many of us Americans have never done that. After working cheek by jowl with many of these people for years I have nothing but respect for most of them. Not only that, I have learned how to play Ping Pong from some of them! :) I have also worked with groups of people whom we use for offshore development in Bangalore and liked them to a man. I also think Indians have just as much right to compete and profit from the system as we do.

Not liking to see one's livelihood shipped overseas does not necessarily equate to racism.

You should apologize. A stupid generalization.


========
question is after decades of looking at indians
and chinese as "inferior people" (untermenshen)
will americans be "open" enough to work for new
masters and dance the same dance they do for
eu/japan/us bosses ?
kamalpr 12/5/2012 | 2:01:38 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing India has a non-discriminatory policy towards whites who want to take up jobs in India.

There are about 30,000 americans working in India -and there is no cap or restriction of any sort. Your employment is strictly between you and your employer -with govt having nothing to do with it.

I have worked in the US for Indian companies -and I know they have a non-discrimatory attitude. I also believe they actively seek people of Indian origin because the compensation and comfort level with that employee will be more to their liking.

OH btw -I came across an idiot from MIT at my workplace and that gives me reason to believe its much ado about nothing.

regards
-kamal
brahmos 12/5/2012 | 2:01:39 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing http://www.infoworld.com/artic...

BANGALORE, INDIA -- Infosys Technologies Ltd. said Thursday that it is investing $20 million into a business consulting subsidiary in the U.S., which will be managed by four former senior executives of global consulting firms.

.....

Infosys Consulting is being led by CEO Stephen Pratt, who until recently was the global leader of the customer relationship management (CRM) practice at Deloitte Consulting, the business and IT consulting division of accounting giant Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu.

The new company plans to hire 75 consultants in the U.S. in the first year. "Because of the restructuring in the consulting industry in the U.S., a lot of staff are willing to move over," said Pratt. "We plan to hire from the top 10 percent performers from the leading consulting firms."

Besides Pratt, Infosys Consulting has as its managing directors: Romil Bahl, formerly vice president of consulting services at Electronic Data Systems Corp.; Raj Joshi, previously CEO of Deloitte Consulting Offshore Technology Group; and Paul Cole, formerly head of the global operations of Cap Gemini Ernst & Young's CRM practice

.....

========
question is after decades of looking at indians
and chinese as "inferior people" (untermenshen)
will americans be "open" enough to work for new
masters and dance the same dance they do for
eu/japan/us bosses ?

brahmos 12/5/2012 | 2:01:40 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing Tata consultancy crossed it in April02 and Infosys reported it last week.

the fiscal year in india is April02-March03.

http://www.ciol.com/content/ne...

http://www.thestandard.com/art...

each of them are improving their per-employee revenue I think and recruiting something like 5000 people every year.

the global majors like IBM, HP, Accenture are also
forced to relocate and ramp up hugely in India
to respond to the cost pressures, so its a win
for India there too on the new jobs :)

Phoneman 12/5/2012 | 2:01:41 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing More and more companies are outsourcing which on the surface looks great as far as the short term bottom line is concerned, but what about the long term effects on the U.S. economy. What kind of a future are we building for our children here in America?
zoinks! 12/5/2012 | 2:01:42 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing Technology racism is nothing new ... in prior companies I've worked for, I've seen;
1) university bias -- managers with MIT degrees that would hire only MIT graduates, even when we had demonstrable proof that his past MIT hires were useless
2) Chinese managers that would hire only Chinese engineers ... and "seemed" to layoff only the white engineer (I know thats a big accusation)

Your mileage may vary.

Zoinks!
truelight 12/5/2012 | 2:01:43 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing Well Wipro will improve in price.

There's no jobs for the USA coming from this company. Do they employee US citizens or do you have to be Indian to get in the door.

Similiar to Chinese companies this is a new form of form of techonolgy racism that is emerging - just a thought.
euler 12/5/2012 | 2:01:45 AM
re: Wipro Soars on Outsourcing Wall st. will start rewarding companies that increase outsourcing just like they reward companies that announce layoffs. The current reports in the press that indicate outsourcing will eventually benefit our economy fail to mention that the current and next generation of technology workers will suffer like the factory workers of the 70's and 80's.
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