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Optical/IP

Corona Networks Disappears

Corona Networks Inc., a six-year-old IP edge router startup, seems to be in the dumper, raising questions about its partnership agreement with Alcatel SA (NYSE: ALA; Paris: CGEP:PA).

Rumors of Corona Networks' demise are rampant; sources say the doors shut Friday and that 60-odd remaining employees are gone. Many phone numbers given on the company Website no longer work; and at least one office, in Cary, N.C., seems to have become the property of a townhouse developer.

Voicemail still works for several Corona Networks execs, including CEO Ramandeep Singh, but none returned calls. Today, an assistant in the offices of VC firm Redwood Venture Partners LLC said Bharat Gupte, a director at Redwood who's familiar with Corona, had confirmed the startup's closure.

Gupte didn't return calls and email at press time.

The news and the secrecy aren't surprising. Corona's been struggling for months with layoffs and funding crises, while trying to keep things quiet (see Headcount: Mississippi Spurning).

A big question is: If Corona Networks is history, what will happen to a deal it had to supply Alcatel with a broadband remote access server (B-RAS) for the French vendor's 7301 DSLAM? That deal originally appeared to help Corona get $8 million in Series D funding back in April (see Corona Gets a Boost).

Alcatel isn't saying much. "We can't comment on the situations of other vendors," says Jay Fausch, senior director for Alcatel's Fixed Communications group. He says Alcatel will live up to any customer commitments it's made to put that B-RAS module into Alcatel's 7301 DSLAM. But he won't comment on how many such commitments have been made.

Reportedly, in choosing Corona Networks for the B-RAS job, Alcatel shunned Redback Networks Inc. (Nasdaq: RBAK) last year (see Redback, Alcatel Close to Alliance). Now that things may have changed, could talks reopen?

Redback wouldn't comment at press time. Still, in an interesting ripple, Nokia Corp. (NYSE: NOK), an investor in Redback that competes with Alcatel in broadband access and other areas, has reduced its stake in Redback, officially in order to pare down "liquid assets." In a filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) dated Monday, Nokia said it owns a 3.4 percent stake in Redback, compared with 10 percent owned last year.

Still, it's not clear whether Alcatel would consider a reduced stake an improvement over a large one.

Alcatel faces a challenge now, since other makers of compact B-RAS products include companies that compete in one way or another with Alcatel: Cisco Systems Inc.(Nasdaq: CSCO), Copper Mountain Networks Inc. (Nasdaq: CMTN), Juniper Networks Inc. (Nasdaq: JNPR), and Network Equipment Technologies Inc. (net.com) (NYSE: NWK), for example (see Carriers Want a Little B-RAS on the Edge).

NOTE: Please note that Corona Networks is not to be confused with Corona Optical Systems Inc., another startup that makes optoelectronic components and is still operating.

— Mary Jander, Senior Editor, Light Reading

dadofamunky 12/4/2012 | 11:31:14 PM
re: Corona Networks Disappears "The industry destroyed itself and is in ruins
because during the boom, NOBODY was telling
the truth about anything. The reason good
startups hurt now is that an entire generation
of people got rich off of lying and paying
kickbacks rather than building good companies."

Damn well right about that.... now back to work for me....
regent 12/4/2012 | 11:31:36 PM
re: Corona Networks Disappears > Estimates on the asking price given in the
> article are in the 250-300 million range.

Yep. I see a pattern regarding the accuracy of LR predictions and estimates. Do you?

All right, that was sarcasm. Good luck to Laurel, and let's hope that their hard work will pay off. However, you must be totally ignoring reallity if you even try to challenge Timetra based on the price that Alcatel was willing to pay for it.

Regards.
boobasan 12/4/2012 | 11:31:37 PM
re: Corona Networks Disappears Skeptic wrote:
================================================
"b) In Message 27, In response to someone saying:
"On the stability note, please show me a router that does not crash. Even on GA code.""
================================================

Man, what I meant there is that you were raving about problems in a product that was not in production ready, possibly pre-beta state while there are a lot of brand-name boxes that crash even with GA soft/hardware. Just be fair.

Skeptic, I really enjoy your posts and you probably know what you talking about and your negativity sometimes is very entertaining.. I know your name implies a lot of things you say but give these guys a break or at least a benefit of a doubt.
boobasan 12/4/2012 | 11:31:37 PM
re: Corona Networks Disappears "Estimates on the asking price given in the article are in the 250-300 million range."

Given that they raise about $90M, this makes sense if any of the folks there other than VCs are to make any money. Don't forget, TiMetra raised a bit more than half of that amount, so the $150 price tag is a lot more reasonable in TiMetra's case. That said, I am sure TiMetra was willing to take more if you know what I mean.

rush21 12/4/2012 | 11:31:39 PM
re: Corona Networks Disappears Wow - so you actually have VPLS running in your network??? Are you sure ???

Thought the deal had more to do with a tech advisor or something?

-----------------------------------------------

Yes, Masergy runs real VPLS available over Ethernet or Serial Local Loops.
skeptic 12/4/2012 | 11:31:41 PM
re: Corona Networks Disappears But sometimes it is a struggling startup with a great product. Skeptic's seemingly knowledgeable but often off-base analyses and criticisms can do real damage.
------------------------
I'm offering my opinion, as I have stated many
times before. If anyone is stupid enough to
make serious decisions based on anonymous
messages, they get what they deserve.

I dont remember calling myself an "insider".
Or for that matter calling anything "inside
information". You may think its inside
information because you have not seen it, but
that doesn't mean it is.

If I offer conjecture, I give the basis for
my conjecture in a fair amount of detail.
If its wrong, then I'm fine with being corrected.
These boards are interesting because of the things
people say. If I wanted mindless hype, I can
go talk to the companies directly and get that.
And everyone else could as well.

I also think that the culture of the industry
needs to change and we need to start asking
more hard questions, not less.

The industry destroyed itself and is in ruins
because during the boom, NOBODY was telling
the truth about anything. The reason good
startups hurt now is that an entire generation
of people got rich off of lying and paying
kickbacks rather than building good companies.

skeptic 12/4/2012 | 11:31:42 PM
re: Corona Networks Disappears ”Wow!” writes one VC, who didn’t want to be named, in an email to Light Reading. “What a ridiculous price. I'd like that banker representing TiMetra to be on my team! He can sell ice to Eskimos!”
---------------------
See May 21, 2003
Laurel: Startup Holdout?

Estimates on the asking price given in the article
are in the 250-300 million range.





skeptic 12/4/2012 | 11:31:42 PM
re: Corona Networks Disappears 1. Skeptic sprinkles a little knowledge with a lot of hot air, usually highly critical of the company, often with vague references to supposed insider's knowledge. In fact it is all conjecture and bluff, and sometimes completely off base.
2. Someone with real knowledge calls his bluff.
3. Skeptic loses it.
==========================

a) In message 20, comments are made from "real
experience" with the Timetra product. I'm not
making the comments.
b) In Message 27, In response to someone saying:
"On the stability note, please show me a router that does not crash. Even on GA code."

Which I said is an utterly stupid thing to say
in response to "real experience" with the product.
c) In message 29, someone asks "did you test
their box?"
Please now explain to me why I have to
have tested their box given that:
1) Someone else who had tested the box
already commented.
2) My comments were directed at a statement
saying basically /so what if it crashed/.
I don't need experience to comment
on that.
d) I message 34, someone gets /real upset/
that comments based on firsthand experience
are being made /at all/.
e) I point out where I (to quote you) "lost it"
that its hypocracy to get angry at negative
comments when positive comments are ok.



opticalwatcher 12/4/2012 | 11:31:43 PM
re: Corona Networks Disappears "Its great hearing ethical lectures from a bunch
of people rather shamlessly promoting their
product (or a product they have an association
with) on lightreading."

Why are you so upset? I think I know!

1. Skeptic sprinkles a little knowledge with a lot of hot air, usually highly critical of the company, often with vague references to supposed insider's knowledge. In fact it is all conjecture and bluff, and sometimes completely off base.
2. Someone with real knowledge calls his bluff.
3. Skeptic loses it.

I normally wouldn't bother to say anything, especially in this case when the company has been bought. But sometimes it is a struggling startup with a great product. Skeptic's seemingly knowledgeable but often off-base analyses and criticisms can do real damage.

I caution all readers to take any criticism of companies in the message list with a grain of salt, even (especially) from supposedly knowledgeable insiders like skeptic.

regent 12/4/2012 | 11:31:45 PM
re: Corona Networks Disappears > If it were a great business and a great product,
> you would (like Laurel) not be thinking
> about selling quick or else be looking for a
> higher price than alcatel would give.

Looking for a higher price? LetGÇÖs seeGǪ

----------------
GÇ¥Wow!GÇ¥ writes one VC, who didnGÇÖt want to be named, in an email to Light Reading. GÇ£What a ridiculous price. I'd like that banker representing TiMetra to be on my team! He can sell ice to Eskimos!GÇ¥
----------------
-L.R., GÇ£Alcatel & TiMetra Seal the DealGÇ¥

boobasan 12/4/2012 | 11:31:47 PM
re: Corona Networks Disappears "If it were a great business and a great product,
you would (like Laurel) not be thinking
about selling quick or else be looking for a
higher price than alcatel would give."

How do you know that they're not looking? Maybe they are just not getting the number and conditions they are comfortable with given their current investment, liquidation preferences etc.? You can never tell for sure. In addition, Laurel is less attractive due to off-the-shelf-ness of their product. How much money do they have to get for folks there to make money?

TiMetra might not have been looking to unload itself, but in the end it made more sense than continuing on independently (maybe due to potential dilution etc.)
LTTSUF 12/4/2012 | 11:31:49 PM
re: Corona Networks Disappears "Density, horsepower, price, VPLS feature set and hierarchical QoS"

Wow - so you actually have VPLS running in your network??? Are you sure ???

Thought the deal had more to do with a tech advisor or something?
rush21 12/4/2012 | 11:31:50 PM
re: Corona Networks Disappears Its, of course, "wrong" and "illegal" for someone
with experience on the product to tell the truth.
But there is nothing wrong with sending people
from Timetra's one announced customer out
to tell everyone that its a perfect product
with no flaws. It only violates the rules when
someone says something you don't like right?

--------------------------------------

I have never met Basil and have no relationship with Timetra other than Customer/Vendor. Like signmeup, I was simply (and honestly) answering the questions you posted in Message #11. We looked extensively at all of the major players and sent out very specific requirements. Timetra ended up being the best fit for Masergy. Plain and simple.
skeptic 12/4/2012 | 11:31:51 PM
re: Corona Networks Disappears It is different when skeptic says something because he has never touched the product, is not under NDA and is going on hearsay.
-----------
Well....

Its great hearing ethical lectures from a bunch
of people rather shamlessly promoting their
product (or a product they have an association
with) on lightreading.

And I'm sorry that your attempts to keep any
truth under wraps and discredit anyone questioning
your product seems to have failed.

Its, of course, "wrong" and "illegal" for someone
with experience on the product to tell the truth.
But there is nothing wrong with sending people
from Timetra's one announced customer out
to tell everyone that its a perfect product
with no flaws. It only violates the rules when
someone says something you don't like right?

The reason I started asking questions is that
a certain person at Timetra has a history of
"shading" the truth. Rather than hear the
dream-beat of "its great", It was refreshing to
hear someone (anyone) finally tell even a
little bit of truth.

But then again Truth is something thats rather
alien to the overhyped world of Basil. Hype
and dishonesty are the fondations of doing
business. Say your great enough and everyone
will believe it.....until they look under the
hood.

skeptic 12/4/2012 | 11:31:51 PM
re: Corona Networks Disappears
Who else would you sell to? Nortel? *chuckles* I just don't think there are too many takers out there nowdays.
============
If it were a great business and a great product,
you would (like Laurel) not be thinking
about selling quick or else be looking for a
higher price than alcatel would give.

The alcatel mentality is to do due dilligance on
the best company. Then have a meeting in Paris
where it gets decided that they can't afford the
best. Then the second-tier goons open up a report
and search down the list until they find something
affordable. And then they buy it sight-unseen.

Of course even that process is better than
Lucent's process. And Alcatel will eventually
give up on failures (unlike Nexabit at Lucent).




boobasan 12/4/2012 | 11:31:52 PM
re: Corona Networks Disappears "Why would Timetra board sell the company to a company like Alacatel if Timetra had a selling product. Alcatel has a long history of picking what no one else wants."

Who else would you sell to? Nortel? *chuckles* I just don't think there are too many takers out there nowdays.
cyber_techy 12/4/2012 | 11:31:54 PM
re: Corona Networks Disappears Author: Belzebutt Number: 10
Subject: Re: What about Timetra? Date: 8/20/2003 10:06:00 PM


Do you know if the Timetra box is actually shipping right now
=================================================
Why would Timetra board sell the company to a company like Alacatel if Timetra had a selling product. Alcatel has a long history of picking what no one else wants.
boobasan 12/4/2012 | 11:31:59 PM
re: Corona Networks Disappears
================================================
"1. You have to manually configure each card and MDA type before it can be used. There was no auto configuration based on the card and MDA type. This is a pain."
=================================================

I think it does auto-discover hardware, but it does not automatically become "provisioned" hardware. Depending on how you look at it it can be good or bad. Some folks do choose to pre-provision rather than discover. If you rely on discovered information only, then you pull out your hardware, put in some other card that does not fit, what happens to all the crap you provisioned on that original card? Things like that... If you use any sort of provisionning system, this is, again, not much of a pain, really. If you do it by hand.. Well you gotta type fast :)

==============================================
"2. You must 'no shut' every single interface/service definition. For example, you must no shut the physical interface, the MPLS interface, the MPLS path, the static LSP, the routed interface, the SDP service, and the VPLS service interface. This is a little excessive, especially as this doesn't include QoS."
==============================================

I agree. But if you automate it, who cares.

==============================================
"3. You must define all of these different hierarchal service levels even for basic services."
==============================================

Wait a second don't they have default best effort policies etc? I don't think you even have to explicitly set them... Am I missing something? I think you are kinda wrongish here, mate..

==============================================

"Once again, my original point is that most providers are looking to simplify not complicate the edge as it is a scalability nightmare."

======================================

OK.. Let's see.. Let's say want to have mpls in the core.. So you have to create a mesh of LSPs. Right? Then you have to create VLANs, right? Then you have to tie those VLANs into the LSPs somehow. So far we are doing all te same shit as you would have to do on TiMetra's box. You will have to jump back and forth over the CLI tree to do that as well.. It will result in helluva lot CLI lines..

What boxes are you currently running on? Extremes? Riverstones? Could you show me your example config for them.

b
light-headed 12/4/2012 | 11:31:59 PM
re: Corona Networks Disappears signmeup,

I am just giving you crap because I find it really sad that someone who is allowed to test an Alpha or Beta product under NDA would violate that trust and also break the law. If you work with any product at certain phases you can bet there will be missing features, new code, crashes, etc. Juniper had some doozies in 98-99.

You are a great shame to your company and the person you work for who setup the test. I can tell you that the professionals I work with in many, many labs across the world would never do what you have done. It is different when skeptic says something because he has never touched the product, is not under NDA and is going on hearsay.

Have a great day and I hope I never have to work with you.
rush21 12/4/2012 | 11:32:00 PM
re: Corona Networks Disappears And as far as crashes, if people are running
their mouths about how much better Timetra is
than anyone else, saying that their crashing is
acceptable because all the other vendors do it
kind of defeats whats being said. This is
supposed to be something "better".

______________________________________________

We have had no crashes since the Timetras were installed in our production network in Feb. The GA code has been very stable.

signmeup 12/4/2012 | 11:32:00 PM
re: Corona Networks Disappears Ok, I'm gonna take back my last post and post one more response (my prerogative).

First of all, I NEVER stated that I had to manually enter all 5 pages of configuration. It was merely an observation that a very simple configuration equated to 5 pages.

To point out the specifics of what actually MUST be configured, so that people will believe that I have actually done this before, here are the requirements:

1. You have to manually configure each card and MDA type before it can be used. There was no auto configuration based on the card and MDA type. This is a pain.

2. You must 'no shut' every single interface/service definition. For example, you must no shut the physical interface, the MPLS interface, the MPLS path, the static LSP, the routed interface, the SDP service, and the VPLS service interface. This is a little excessive, especially as this doesn't include QoS.

3. You must define all of these different hierarchal service levels even for basic services. Once again, my original point is that most providers are looking to simplify not complicate the edge as it is a scalability nightmare.

Finally, light-headed, you are not helping Timetra's cause by being so childish. In fact, you are doing just the opposite. Why would anyone believe someone who acts like a 2 year old who didn't get something they wanted? If you would have taken the time to actually read my previous posts, you would have seen that I stated the hardware was stable; I experienced issues with a beta version of the code (which I pointed out should be fixed in a production version of code).

If you can't respond in an adult fashion, I suggest you go back to the yahoo boards, d88d. Otherwise, you're just hurting Timetra's reputation by being ignorant.
skeptic 12/4/2012 | 11:32:01 PM
re: Corona Networks Disappears Did you test their box? Did you see it crash? How do you know what (if any) corners they cut? Did you work for them before? How do you know?
----------------
What I'm going by is the reported amount of
money the company spent, what they claimed to
have delivered and comments made about software
crashes in this thread by someone else.

If they have cut corners, potential customers
are going to quickly figure it out. If they
didn't, they will probably expand beyond the
one customer they have now.

And as far as crashes, if people are running
their mouths about how much better Timetra is
than anyone else, saying that their crashing is
acceptable because all the other vendors do it
kind of defeats whats being said. This is
supposed to be something "better".
signmeup 12/4/2012 | 11:32:01 PM
re: Corona Networks Disappears Answers to Boobasan's questions:

Did you test their box?
Yes, I spent several days testing two SR-1's along with some other vendor's gear earlier this year.

Did you see it crash?
->Yes, it crashed several times during the testing (4-5). Twice while removing configurations from interfaces, Once while rebooting (because of a packet loss issue), and twice while performing LSP-OAM functions. I was running beta code, as I mentioned before.

How do you know what (if any) corners they cut?
->When I tested the box, it appeared that the hardware development was ahead of the software development. While I can't say that this is a fact, it was obvious to me that the software was lacking in stability. Again, to point out, I was running beta code early in the year and even mentioned in my original post that I would expect (hope) that these issues have been resolved.

Did you work for them before?
-> No, I have not, nor will I work for them.

How do you know?
-> Because I saw it with my own eyes.

This is my final post on the subject. There are WAY too many people acting like morons if someone disagrees with them (like calling them full of sh!t). If anyone took the time to look at my posts, one would see that I tend to present a very balanced, yet hands-on viewpoint. In this case, I feel that while Timetra should be congratulated on building an impressive piece of hardware, I personally don't a need for it given other much more mature technologies and vendors. And contrary to popular belief (I'm being facetious), I have yet to see Alcatel produce a winner from an acquistion - in the IP space.

signmeoff (at least on this subject)
boobasan 12/4/2012 | 11:32:01 PM
re: Corona Networks Disappears Did you test their box? Did you see it crash? How do you know what (if any) corners they cut? Did you work for them before? How do you know? Yeah it is reasonable to assume that they did cut a few corners given how much money they spent. But there are a few ways to save money without sacrificing too much of a featureset and quality that a lot of the companies started in 1999-2000 chose not to follow. Things like not growing a huge team with numerous management layers, not hiring overpriced brand-name mega-ego routing icons, saving on rent by staying in a crappy office. Things like that take you pretty far.

As far as my remark on the stability, I don't think this is an excuse to build a shitty unstable product, and nobody should say "Yeah we crash because everyone else poofs here and there." But, in reality, all boxes crash. And I'm not talking about Cosines and Shastas. Like you've never seen Ciscos, Junipers, Extremes, Foundrys crap out before? On simple things? Especially on X.0 releases. Come on.

=======================================
"On the stability note, please show me a router that does not crash. Even on GA code.
---------------
If a vendor said that to me, they would be thrown
out the door. The examples of the Timetra
crashing given were in rather basic features.
And its usually the case that if simple things
crash, there are a whole lot of other more
complex crashes just waiting to happen.

One of the concerns about Timetra is that they
saved money by cutting corners. And when you do
that, you end up with the classic router that
never quite gets stable."

========================================

boobasan 12/4/2012 | 11:32:01 PM
re: Corona Networks Disappears "If you have any sort of automation, why does it matter how large your config file is?
---------------
Because you have to A) create it and B) maintain
it. The larger the config file, the larger the
effort to do both. The config file, especially
when that "service" word starts being thrown
around is not a static thing."

Why? If you have a half-decent provisionning systems, you really do it only once in a blue moon and as long as things are scriptable and consistent the sheer size of config does not really matter much.
skeptic 12/4/2012 | 11:32:02 PM
re: Corona Networks Disappears
If you have any sort of automation, why does it matter how large your config file is?
---------------
Because you have to A) create it and B) maintain
it. The larger the config file, the larger the
effort to do both. The config file, especially
when that "service" word starts being thrown
around is not a static thing.
----------------
And as long as the box can do what it's supposed to do and then some (so you would not have to replace it in a year after purchase) who cares?
----------------

Well...customers care. This isn't a zero-config
ethernet switch. So OPEX matters. Configuration
matters because it determines how many of the
features of the system can actually be used
in a pratical situation.

---------------
On the stability note, please show me a router that does not crash. Even on GA code.
---------------
If a vendor said that to me, they would be thrown
out the door. The examples of the Timetra
crashing given were in rather basic features.
And its usually the case that if simple things
crash, there are a whole lot of other more
complex crashes just waiting to happen.

One of the concerns about Timetra is that they
saved money by cutting corners. And when you do
that, you end up with the classic router that
never quite gets stable.



rush21 12/4/2012 | 11:32:05 PM
re: Corona Networks Disappears I can solve ALL of those scenarios without the complexity of multiple VPLS services. Heck, you've been able do that for ethernet-based services on L2 switches for years. Tell me again why I need the added complexity of VPLS again?

You asked for TOS-based Qos on L2 flows - not VPLS.

------------------------------------------------

You are right, I never mentioned VPLS. Can you tell me which Ethernet switch vendors can solve my scenarios? Most Ethernet switches we have looked at will do TOS based QoS at the line rate (if I have a 10 Mb port, I can do TOS-based QoS of a bundle of VLANs at 10 Mbps, but not at 5 Mbps). As a Service Provider, I need to be able to tier that 10/100/1000 Mbps Ethernet port. Last time I checked neither Extreme, Cisco, or Foundry could do this (maybe Force-10 can???, but I need some ports smaller than 10 Gig). Some of my cohorts think VPLS is the killer Timetra dfferentiator, I think the H-QOS is more important.
boobasan 12/4/2012 | 11:32:09 PM
re: Corona Networks Disappears signmeup wrote:
8<--------------------------------------------
I had the opportunity to perform some beta htesting earlier this year and found the CLI to be overly complex, requiring me to configure multiple layers for a seemingly simple configuration (in fact, I had several PAGES of configuration data for a very simple configuration).
8<--------------------------------------------

And you manage all your services via CLI by hand? Right? Good luck if you do.

If you have any sort of automation, why does it matter how large your config file is? It's not that you will be typing it all by hand... And as long as the box can do what it's supposed to do and then some (so you would not have to replace it in a year after purchase) who cares?

On the stability note, please show me a router that does not crash. Even on GA code.
boobasan 12/4/2012 | 11:32:09 PM
re: Corona Networks Disappears arak wrote:
8<---------------------------------------------
Is the automated provisioning tool from Timtera, or home grown, or from a 3rd party vendor? If it happens to be 3rd party, wondering what it could be. Hopefully not the Metasolv piece of crap.
8<---------------------------------------------

Nah, it's not Metasolv. Metasolv is useless. They rolled their own. I've seen their system on a couple of occaisions. Very impressive stuff. Completely meta-model driven.. They should productize it and spin it off.
arak 12/4/2012 | 11:32:09 PM
re: Corona Networks Disappears Is the automated provisioning tool from Timtera, or home grown, or from a 3rd party vendor? If it happens to be 3rd party, wondering what it could be. Hopefully not the Metasolv piece of crap.

Arak
PS: Good to see something innovative going on in Irving after the I2 implosion. Yeehaw ... I don't live in the boonies anymore.

--------
rush21 wrote:

I have to disagree about the Timetra CLI. Not sure when you looked at it, but their template model is very elegant. It fits very well into our automated provisioning system.

signmeup 12/4/2012 | 11:32:11 PM
re: Corona Networks Disappears I can solve ALL of those scenarios without the complexity of multiple VPLS services. Heck, you've been able do that for ethernet-based services on L2 switches for years. Tell me again why I need the added complexity of VPLS again?

You asked for TOS-based Qos on L2 flows - not VPLS.

I can send you the 5 page configuration for just 2 VPLS customers if you would like - send me an email to [email protected] Frankly, you'll need an automated provisioning system just to ensure it doesn't take 2 hours per new customer/service.

You have already stated that you purchased the Timetra product and you like it. That's fine, however I am someone who didn't purchase it because I didn't like it - AND I gave clear, concise reasons why. Knowning who Timetra has sold product to gives me insight into who you are, and I can tell you that it would never scale in the environment I work in.


rush21 12/4/2012 | 11:32:12 PM
re: Corona Networks Disappears The problem with this is it assumes that ALL carriers want to offer granular service types for individual customers. In my experience this is exactly opposite of what the carriers want to do. If carriers wanted more complexity per end user, they have the appropriate tools within their existing ATM & frame infrastructures to do so without having to upgrade.

________________________________________________

Customers are looking to run Voice and Video traffic over their Private networks. We spent a LONG time looking for devices that can do TOS-based QoS on layer 2 flows. Consider this simple example:

HQ has multiple DLCIs (one to each remote site). Each DLCI has a 384K cir. Congestion hits, each DLCI gets their 384K cir. However, my Frame switch is doing a tail drop. If I am trying to run a 384K Video call and also send lower priority data across one of those DLCIs, the Video call will fail because CIR doesn't allow me to look into the DLCI to make an intelligent drop decision. The Video and best-effort data packets look exactly the same to the Frame switch.

Another example: Customer buys a Tiered DS-3 (6 mbps) for HQ and he has 6 DLCIs. What do I set the burst rate to for each of his DLCIs? If each can burst up to the full line rate, it is possible for the customer to be sending a total of 36 Mb down his 6 Mb tier. If I set the burst rate to each of the DLCIs to 1 Mb, I have a lot of stranded bandwidth.

The exact same problem exists for Ethernet services. Just swap VLAN for DLCI.

Timetra solves both of these real-life problems. I can make TOS-based drop decisions and I can offer true tiered services.

Those services can be any combination of VPLS, 2547, Point-to-point, or Internet access, all over a single circuit. Any (or all) services can burst up to the full line rate and I will always drop best-effort traffic first.

I have to disagree about the Timetra CLI. Not sure when you looked at it, but their template model is very elegant. It fits very well into our automated provisioning system.



signmeup 12/4/2012 | 11:32:14 PM
re: Corona Networks Disappears The real question regarding Timetra is how you believe the edge market will shape up. Timetra has bet the farm on VPLS services with granular QoS capabilities. The Timetra platform is designed to offer multiple VPLS services per customer/subscriber interface (i.e. VPLS service types for email, Internet, and Private Line services). Each of these can be classified with different QoS parameters. As such, Timetra developed their own asics to handle this level of granular QoS. The CLI is also designed to configure multiple customers/services. I had the opportunity to perform some beta testing earlier this year and found the CLI to be overly complex, requiring me to configure multiple layers for a seemingly simple configuration (in fact, I had several PAGES of configuration data for a very simple configuration).

The problem with this is it assumes that ALL carriers want to offer granular service types for individual customers. In my experience this is exactly opposite of what the carriers want to do. If carriers wanted more complexity per end user, they have the appropriate tools within their existing ATM & frame infrastructures to do so without having to upgrade.

As a final note, while the hardware was impressive, the software I tested was somewhat unstable, crashing at least 4-5 times during the testing for no apparent reason. In one case, I was simply unconfiguring an interface when it core dumped. I would hope these were a by-product of a beta build, however it appeared that the software was several generations behind the hardware.
vn 12/4/2012 | 11:32:15 PM
re: Corona Networks Disappears They get nothing. For some strange reasons this company lasted 4 yrs under incredibly incompetent Indian management and at the end maybe Alcatel woke up and saw through the smoke. For a small startup they had quite a few number of managers and directors, mostly Indians and inept. There were a few sharp people but unfortunately they have neither power nor time to right the ship. And apparently now some of the incompetent managers are trying to continue the development of their IP blade in India. I guess these guys must believe in their own lies.
rush21 12/4/2012 | 11:32:25 PM
re: Corona Networks Disappears I am with Masergy.


---------
So I assume your with Masergy? Or are you with
someone else where you can't say the name.
skeptic 12/4/2012 | 11:32:27 PM
re: Corona Networks Disappears We tested it, we bought it, we use it, and we love it.
---------
So I assume your with Masergy? Or are you with
someone else where you can't say the name.

lightreceding 12/4/2012 | 11:32:28 PM
re: Corona Networks Disappears Milestones are an Alcatel trademark. What happens is that the design team now has to deal with the Milestone committee and there can be a lot of conflict over which features should be on the milestone list so development can either slow because of conflick or go off in directions that the Milestone committee thinks is appropriate.
listen2this 12/4/2012 | 11:32:32 PM
re: Corona Networks Disappears 60 people are out of work as of friday.
what do they get for all their hard work
after this place is sold??
rush21 12/4/2012 | 11:32:33 PM
re: Corona Networks Disappears
-------------

- Where are the customer announcements?

I guess Masergy doesn't count ;-)

- What exactly is the compelling value of the
platform as you see it?

Density, horsepower, price, VPLS feature set and hierarchical QoS

- What is the competitive advantage over
similar products in the space.

See above. The last three were the big things for us.

We tested it, we bought it, we use it, and we love it.

firstmile 12/4/2012 | 11:32:33 PM
re: Corona Networks Disappears It is my understanding that they have one or two customers. Please note that I have also heard that the acquistion paperwork is FILLED with milestone comittments that Basil and his team have to continuously meet in order to get paid.

As far as Basil is concerned, he may be a fast talker, but he is a very smart and ethical guy. He defined a subset product space at Timetra and is on his way to fully delivering a focused product in that space. Let's give him a hand instead of beating on the guy. There is some scum in this industry, but he is not part of it.

As far as the Corona deal with Alcatel, I am surprised by their demise. However the datasheet for the ISM2 (the product that Corona was building for ALA DSLAM) is available on Alcatel's web site (but hard to find), so I think the product is available. And I'm sure that Alcatel owns the IP (as in Intellectual Property). But, the product does not look very cool. Looks like a real power hog etc.

Just my two cents.
...First
lightreceding 12/4/2012 | 11:32:35 PM
re: Corona Networks Disappears What about Timetra. They are a stand alone router. The device that Corona was making for Alcatel was an IP service blade to insert in a DSLAM. What ever is happening with Timetra is only tangentaly related to Corona.

The question to ask here is what is Alcatel doing with regard to IP DSLAMS? Are they going to abandon them or develop a blade in house or maybe position Timetra routers next to the DSLAM to offer services. In which case we can question if Timetra is ready and what will Alcatel do with them, as they have a history of firing or losing too many key people to keep any product they acquire such as with Assured Access or the Power rail Ethernet switch company.

We could also look to Nokia and ask what about Amber and that might provide a clue. Apparently they fired many Amber people and have stopped development on the router and are trying to us the technology for a GGSN or whatever. That kind of change of plans is what seems to happen when these larger companies make acquisitions.
skeptic 12/4/2012 | 11:32:36 PM
re: Corona Networks Disappears i read your posts frequently and i must say you have excellent industry knowledge and insight, however on this occasion your spidey senses are way off - indeed you have lived up to your name!
-------------

- Where are the customer announcements?

- What exactly is the compelling value of the
platform as you see it?

- What is the competitive advantage over
similar products in the space.

I hear people mindlessly talk about this thing,
but every time I probe (here or elsewhere)
I dont get much of a story beyond vague hype
about how "great" it is.

Please. Point me to public information that
gives some vague clue as to why anyone should
be fanatical about this thing.



Belzebutt 12/4/2012 | 11:32:39 PM
re: Corona Networks Disappears Do you know if the Timetra box is actually shipping right now?
konafella 12/4/2012 | 11:32:40 PM
re: Corona Networks Disappears skeptic,

i read your posts frequently and i must say you have excellent industry knowledge and insight, however on this occasion your spidey senses are way off - indeed you have lived up to your name!

kb
metrocore 12/4/2012 | 11:32:42 PM
re: Corona Networks Disappears Redback was named after an Australian Beer.
And Corona too....

both lying drunken under the table.
skeptic 12/4/2012 | 11:32:43 PM
re: Corona Networks Disappears Skeptic, what's your take on Timera's product?
-----------
It sounds ok on paper, but the money invested
into building it seemed less than it should have
been which would raise doubts about either the
completeness of features or the quality.

I dont know how you develop a full router plus
building your own programmable packet processor
plus all the interfaces they claim to have with
as little money as was claimed went into the
development.

When Lucent bought Nexabit years ago, people were
swearing up and down that it was a great finished
product. But the reality was something else.

Alcatel, in my opinion, doesn't have very good
judgement in IP products. Lucent is probably
worse, but thats not saying much.

The product came out of nowhere, there has been
no public evaluation of it and when I hear people
talking about this space, Laurel is the one
that gets positive attention.
skeptic 12/4/2012 | 11:32:43 PM
re: Corona Networks Disappears skeptic, why do you have such a hard on for basil alwan and procket networks? every chance you get, you take a shot at one of those two. i don't get it.
------------
I'll take shots at other people like Huber at
Corvis or vivace or Larry Roberts or Huawei or
Avici if its really upsetting you. But nobody
is doing articles on them.

In the past I've said positive things about
Procket. I said, for example, that Procket
deserved to be light reading's top ten startup
list a whole lot more than Caspian did. But
there isn't a whole lot positive to say about
them right now. Getting a CEO would be a positive
thing. So would orders.

As far as Basil goes, something doesn't add up
with Timetra. I look at the money and the time
and something just seems wrong there. And
if you combine that with a fast talker, it sets
off alarms.

Belzebutt 12/4/2012 | 11:32:43 PM
re: Corona Networks Disappears Skeptic, what's your take on Timera's product?
IP?
Throughput?
Carrier gradeness?
Features?
etc.
wilecoyote 12/4/2012 | 11:32:44 PM
re: Corona Networks Disappears skeptic, why do you have such a hard on for basil alwan and procket networks? every chance you get, you take a shot at one of those two. i don't get it.

i know basil and i don't agree with you that he is a scam artist. he's a fast talker but a scam artist? procket is another story. i like the company, you don't, that's ok. but you take a lot of time ripping into each one and i'm curious why.
thanks
--wc
skeptic 12/4/2012 | 11:32:44 PM
re: Corona Networks Disappears Why does Alcatel need another IP edge partner when they have Timetra? They don't intend to add B-RAS features to the 7750?
--------------
Because there is a chance that the Timetra
product's development may have involved
a significant amount of "short-cuts" being taken.

It all depends on if the name Basil Alwan
inspires confidence or fear.
stuartb 12/4/2012 | 11:32:45 PM
re: Corona Networks Disappears The irony here is that the only time the corona can be viewed is during a (solar) eclipse. In this case, the corona actually disappeared during an (industry) eclipse. Good luck to the ex-employees.
Belzebutt 12/4/2012 | 11:32:46 PM
re: Corona Networks Disappears Why does Alcatel need another IP edge partner when they have Timetra? They don't intend to add B-RAS features to the 7750?
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