Light Reading
AT&T's Yiannis Argyropoulos explains that bonded copper, while great for enterprises, is not as big of a deal as fiber and microwave technologies for carrier cell-site backhaul.
Video

Bad News for Bonded Copper?

50%
50%
Newest First  |  Oldest First  |  Threaded View
Page 1 / 3   >   >>
billy_fold
50%
50%
billy_fold,
User Rank: Light Beer
12/5/2012 | 4:31:32 PM
re: Bad News for Bonded Copper?


Unfortunately, this type of thinking is exactly why AT&T has major bandwidth restrictions to its cell towers and will have for the forseeable future.  Anyone care to guess how long it will take them to plow fiber to all their cell towers?  Plus microwave is much less reliable, much more costly, and produces much less bandwidth than bonded copper.


-Billy

pdonegan67
50%
50%
pdonegan67,
User Rank: Light Sabre
12/5/2012 | 4:31:18 PM
re: Bad News for Bonded Copper?




AT&T is no different to most incumbent operators in its outlook for using bonded copper for mobile backhaul.  In his comments, Yiannis stresses the importance of “very low latency, jitter and packet loss” in the backhaul network. He also states that while AT&T will primarily drive fiber and microwave into the backhaul network to support growing data traffic, he still leaves the door open to the possibility of a “small percentage” of cell sites being supported by bonded copper in the future. With one or two exceptions, you would be hard pushed to find many leading mobile operators around the world that have a substantially different view from that. Of the small handful of operators I’m aware of that may see a large share of their cell sites supported by bonded copper backhaul, most have it down as an option if they move forward with large femtocell deployments. Say what you like about AT&T, but there is nothing unusual about their outlook here.




stanhubbard
50%
50%
stanhubbard,
User Rank: Light Beer
12/5/2012 | 4:31:16 PM
re: Bad News for Bonded Copper?


Seven,


I think there's truth in saying that the economic slowdown has helped extend the useful life of the copper network for many operators because there is less money to invest in their fiber access networks.


On the other hand, the slowdown reduced the overall amount of money available to invest in E-o-bonded copper pair equipment and likely reduced the pace of E-o-bonded copper pair platform adoption for customers with limited access to capital.


Stan

paolo.franzoi
50%
50%
paolo.franzoi,
User Rank: Light Beer
12/5/2012 | 4:31:16 PM
re: Bad News for Bonded Copper?


Stan,


Isn't the whole Ethernet over Copper driven by the global slowdown?  Simple way (sort of) to upgrade customers with a cash flow based solution.


There are issues with pair availability and quality of course.


seven


 

stanhubbard
50%
50%
stanhubbard,
User Rank: Light Beer
12/5/2012 | 4:31:16 PM
re: Bad News for Bonded Copper?


While E-o-bonded copper deployments for mobile backhaul aplications have been limited, E-o-bonded copper technology is ideal if you are service provider looking to extend the value of your copper network and deliver mid band Ethernet services for business customers.


As one operator told me, the "sales guys love it" because they can shift existing T1 customers to higher speeds at attractive prices. And we're talking about an ROI that can be less than 6 months.


The E-o-bonded copper pair access platform market grew 27% year-over-year in the four quarter period ending in 1Q10. The first quarter also was a record quarter for E-o-bonded copper pair sales -- pretty impressive given that the global economy remains sluggish.


I'll be posting a column on the carrier Ethernet access platform (CEAP) market soon that will provide an update on E-o-bonded copper, E-o-TDM access circuit, and E-o-fiber demarcation/access switch sales.


- Stan


 


 

paolo.franzoi
50%
50%
paolo.franzoi,
User Rank: Light Beer
12/5/2012 | 4:31:15 PM
re: Bad News for Bonded Copper?


 


Stan,


Here is my "yeah but"


I am aware that there are EoCu solutions that are box on each side - not DSLAM + Modem like.  That would seem to me to be a pretty simple sell internally.  There is really no upfront CAPEX until a sale is made.  Which is why your commentary about the Sales guys loving it is the key here.


So, I am actually in the process of buying a 100 Mb/s Ethernet service as we speak (this will be delivered over fiber in my particular case).  The time to deliver is 60 - 90 days.  Not a big deal for me, because I am switching providers and am timing this to be near the end of my other contract (I want both in place for a bit of time to allow us to do the switchover).  Given product leadtime, I can imagine that one could buy the products at the time of the order or use a pull system for inventory replenishment.


From all of this, I can say that cash is expended really close to the start of return from the end customer.  This is a nice little business while it works, the only issue really arises when it doesn't.  The service provider is rather screwed then.


seven


 

paolo.franzoi
50%
50%
paolo.franzoi,
User Rank: Light Beer
12/5/2012 | 4:31:13 PM
re: Bad News for Bonded Copper?


billy,


Since this is a 3G going to a 4G upgrade, I will need 100 Mb/s symmetric at 10-11 BER.  How many pairs of copper do you need?  You were fine at 10 Mb/s and even then there were issues.  At 100 Mb/s symmetric, EoCu is dead.


 


seven


 

billy_fold
50%
50%
billy_fold,
User Rank: Light Beer
12/5/2012 | 4:31:13 PM
re: Bad News for Bonded Copper?


I really hate to disagree with you and Yiannis and AT&T and all the other mobile operators that agree with them, but bonded copper is low latency (less than 2 milliseconds one way from device to device), low jitter (less than 1 millisecond) and very low packet loss (approaching 99.999% availability).  Plus it is highly reliable since it uses multiple pairs (it can automatically add and remove pairs hitlessly from the bonded group and still keep passing traffic).  For Yiannis and you to say that is OK to allocate a "small percentage" misses the point.  It's almost like you all are saying that bonded copper is an inferior technology so we will only allocate a small percentage of the total to it.  Bonded copper is capable of SLAs that are similar to fiber SLAs.  It is time to wake up and smell the roses.  Sorry.


-billy

paolo.franzoi
50%
50%
paolo.franzoi,
User Rank: Light Beer
12/5/2012 | 4:31:12 PM
re: Bad News for Bonded Copper?


 


You can do this at 12 kft with no repeaters?


10 - 9 is NOT fiber quality.


 


seven


 


PS - The normal issue at 10 Mb/s is that you really need 4 - 5 pairs which are not available.

billy_fold
50%
50%
billy_fold,
User Rank: Light Beer
12/5/2012 | 4:31:12 PM
re: Bad News for Bonded Copper?


Seven,


I can do about 50 Mbps symetrical using 8 copper pairs.  It would take me about 16 pairs to do 100 Mbps symetrical.  There is normally a 25 pair binder running out to the cell site so bandwidth should not be an issue.  I can get 10-9 BER pretty easily and even higher depending on some other factors.  So what were these other issues that you had at 10 Mbps symmetrical?


-billy

Page 1 / 3   >   >>
Educational Resources
sponsor supplied content
Educational Resources Archive
Flash Poll
From The Founder
It's clear to me that the communications industry is divided into two types of people, and only one is living in the real world.
LRTV Custom TV
Razorsight Expert's Advice on Real-Time Analytics

11|27|14   |   1:43   |   (0) comments


Razorsight's powerful cloud-based Predictive Analytics solutions are used by the world's leading communications and media brands to drive smarter decisions, enable faster actions and optimize outcomes. Get expert advice.
LRTV Interviews
From 4G to 5G: Alcatel-Lucent's Dave Geary

11|25|14   |   09:09   |   (1) comment


Dave Geary, President of Wireless at Alcatel-Lucent, talks about the evolution of the 4G market, small cells, partnerships, 5G and the IoT.
LRTV Huawei Video Resource Center
Building a Secure Telefonica Network With Huawei's High-End Firewall

11|24|14   |   4:37   |   (0) comments


Andrew Davies, IP architect of the Telefonica, a leading digital communications company, discusses the Huawei security gateway solution and putting the solution into the testbed.
LRTV Huawei Video Resource Center
Huawei Partners with Spirent to Verify CE12816's 10GE Port & TRILL Networking Capabilities

11|24|14   |   2:50   |   (0) comments


Spirent Communications is the world's leading supplier for telecom testing appliances and solutions. Spirent has been in a close partnership with Huawei for a long time.
LRTV Huawei Video Resource Center
Saudi Airlines & Its ICT Transformation

11|24|14   |   2:07   |   (0) comments


In this video, Saudi Airlines discusses its network problems and how Huawei's Agile Network is its all-in-one solution.
LRTV Huawei Video Resource Center
Huawei's Agile Switch Benefiting Saudi Arabia's Yamamah Hospital

11|24|14   |   2:40   |   (0) comments


Saudi Arabia's Yamamah Hospital speaks about how Huawei's Agile Switch has improved the medical service's network infrastructure.
LRTV Huawei Video Resource Center
FanPlay & Huawei Build a Wireless Agile Smart Stadium

11|24|14   |   2:13   |   (0) comments


FanPlay is a cloud-based white label service, which is effectively a football fan engagement platform underpinned by mobile payment technology.
LRTV Huawei Video Resource Center
Building an Agile Stadium

11|24|14   |   3:54   |   (0) comments


Stadiums may be thousands of tons of concrete and steel, but they now need to be agile. Being at the stadium may not be as alluring as it once was. Sports franchises and stadium operators discuss how to get fans back.
LRTV Huawei Video Resource Center
Huawei Helps ChinaCache Tackle Challenges in the Internet Industry

11|24|14   |   3:09   |   (0) comments


ChinaCache is China's largest content distribution network supplier. Huawei's CE12800 has provided ChinaCache with very strong support in its establishment of an infrastructure network.
LRTV Huawei Video Resource Center
Cefinity on Managed Security Services & Next-Generation Firewall

11|24|14   |   7:05   |   (0) comments


Cefinity is a cloud management service provider in Southeast Asia. Ivan Zhang, CEO of the company, discusses the implementation of security service management in the cloud era.
LRTV Huawei Video Resource Center
Huawei's Agile Gateway in the Eyes of Cefinity

11|24|14   |   2:11   |   (0) comments


Cefinity is a managed service provider for enterprise networks. The company currently uses Huawei's AR series routers for the most complete range of functions. CEO Ivan Zhang speaks about the advantages of the AR series routers.
LRTV Huawei Video Resource Center
CTO of Bus-Online Talks About Huawei's Agile Gateway

11|24|14   |   2:53   |   (0) comments


Bus-Online covers around 100 million users everyday. In addition to providing mobile TV, and advertising services to the public, Bus-Online has also entered the field of mobile Internet.
Upcoming Live Events
December 2, 2014, New York City
December 3, 2014, New York City
December 8-10, 2014, Reykjavik, Iceland
February 10, 2015, Atlanta, GA
April 14, 2015, New York City, NY
May 6, 2015, McCormick Convention Center, Chicago, IL
May 13-14, 2015, The Westin Peachtree, Atlanta, GA
June 9-10, 2015, Chicago, IL
Infographics
Irish Telecom outlines the rise of VoIP technology, including its adoption within businesses and their perception of its quality.
Hot Topics
Net Neutrality Even Mark Cuban Could Love
Mitch Wagner, West Coast Bureau Chief, Light Reading, 11/26/2014
Eurobites: Net Neutrality Battle Looms
Paul Rainford, Assistant Editor, Europe, 11/27/2014
Why 5G Is a Different Beast
Robert Clark, 11/26/2014
New Juniper CEO Can Be Thankful for $14.5M
Mitch Wagner, West Coast Bureau Chief, Light Reading, 11/25/2014
Amazon Eyes Ad-Supported Video – NY Post
Mari Silbey, Independent Technology Editor, 11/25/2014
Like Us on Facebook
Twitter Feed