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Optical components

The Asian Invasion

As the telecom downturn continues, the exodus to Asia plods on. A flurry of recent news shows that component suppliers are still moving large chunks of manufacturing overseas.

Last week, Dowslake Microsystems, a startup specializing in optical subsystems, announced the replacement of its Ottawa manufacturing facility with a new plant in China (see Dowslake Opens Production in China).

Today, Agilent Technologies Inc. (NYSE: A) announced the opening of two new R&D and manufacturing facilities in Malaysia (see Agilent Opens in Malaysia); and Oplink Communications Inc. (Nasdaq: OPLK) touted the expansion of its manufacturing efforts in China (see Oplink Goes for Outsourcing).

Clearly, it's still fashionable to cut operating costs by moving to cheaper labor and facilities in the Far East. It's also a trend that has many risks, arising from a horde of differences in currency, culture, and politics, as well as the looser constraints on intellectual property in countries like China (see US to China: Do You Copy?).

The risks aren't proving much of a hindrance when it comes to bottom-line concerns, like survival. "Cost has become critical to success in the components space... You need to have at least a 35 percent price advantage over an incumbent competitor to break into a new account. So manufacture in a low-cost area becomes very attractive, if not inevitable," writes Lawrence Gasman, president of Communications Industry Researchers Inc., in an email today.

For Dowslake Micro, cost cutting was the impetus for opening a 14,000-square-foot facility in Shanghai. Dowslake already has customers in the U.S., Japan, China, and Europe and has been shipping for revenue since the second quarter 2002, according to Dan Yang, the China-born founder of Dowslake, who sold her first amplifier company to JDS Uniphase Corp. (Nasdaq: JDSU; Toronto: JDU) (see Dan Yang's Next Big POP?). "This year we are fighting for break-even," writes Yang in an email. Hence the move: "The reason why we moved manufacturing to China is for the lower operating cost." [Ed. note: Well, duh!]

Dowslake is moving only its manufacturing to China and will maintain its headquarters, with R&D, marketing, and finance, in Santa Clara, Calif. Yang says the number of employees will reach about 15 stateside and 30 in Shanghai when hiring is complete.

For its part, Oplink, which also makes optical subsystems, is seeking to "leverage... optical expertise and low cost manufacturing facilities in China, offering OEMs the opportunity to maintain the high-quality production of integrated optical solutions at a lower cost," according to its press statement.

Agilent says the Asian market itself is a reason it's added 550,000 square feet of new facilities in Malaysia, bringing the company's total presence there to 1.2 million square feet on 63 acres. The company's press statement says "Nearly 40 percent of Agilent's total orders and revenue originate in the Asia Pacific market."

Agilent's counting on more of the same business, as orders elsewhere continue to weaken (see Agilent Reports a Loss). A company spokeswoman says 40 percent of Agilent's manufacturing is now done in the Asia/Pacific region; 40 percent in North America; and 20 percent in Europe. These figures will change over the next year, with 50 percent of manufacturing taking place in Asia/Pacific. The company says there won't be corresponding shutdowns of capacity elsewhere, but no information's available on what the percentages will be in the West.

But has it really been worth it for component vendors to make the move East? So far, it looks as if the jury's out. Agilent's recent financials show ongoing losses. Despite its efforts, Oplink continues to show lackluster financials (see Oplink Reports Q2) and keeps struggling for its own identity in a risky market (see Oplink 'Restructures' Half Its Staff, Oplink Changes Chiefs, and Avanex and Oplink: Wedding's Off). The real condition of Dowslake, still a privately held startup, is an open question.

One key problem is that the industry's woes lie in lack of demand, not the cost of supplies. In fact, in a demand-constrained environment, lower prices merely present the second edge of the sword.

Jay Liebowitz, founder and president of consultancy Liebowitz Strategies, points out that companies that have moved the manufacture of simpler passive components to China aren't showing any growth, yet they're dropping prices at the same time: "Passives prices have fallen 85 to 90 percent. Some of that is attributable to moving to China. It hasn't stimulated greater revenues. At best, companies are finding they need to make eight or nine times more product just to stay where they are," Liebowitz says.

Gasman of CIR sees other issues. China may have cheap, reliable labor now, but the future calls for more sophisticated technology, he thinks. "Manufacture of simple components such as TFFs and fixed OADMs has been carried out in Asia for quite a few years," he writes. "I would say that the ability of Asian manufacturers to produce complex integrated optics products is unproven, although I think it is just a matter of time before their competence is established."

Ironically, as China's workforce and vendors strengthen their presence in integrated components, the companies that moved to China may see the value of their operating savings evaporate in the face of competition. Still, at least for the short term, the tradeoff seems to be helping many stay alive to face that risk.

— Mary Jander, Senior Editor, Light Reading

Garam Masala 12/5/2012 | 12:30:12 AM
re: The Asian Invasion How about Sporksticks?

Garam
Garam Masala 12/5/2012 | 12:30:12 AM
re: The Asian Invasion I prefer the Spork myself.

Garam
Laser_King 12/5/2012 | 12:30:13 AM
re: The Asian Invasion My point exactly. I was being sarcastic and wanted to show just how trivial this thread really is. There are a lot of great things about Asia and the US. I have been to Asia many times and think the culture, capabilitities of the people, and business environment are great. Likewise, contrary to some people's opinion on this massage board, the US has a few great qualities also! I am just tired of all the polarized opinions on this message board and narrow minded viewpoints of supposedly educated individuals.
Fortunecookie 12/5/2012 | 12:31:10 AM
re: The Asian Invasion Laser,
Why do you have to defend something that is so obvious? Although you see some radical post here and there, but I believe most of immigrants think the U.S. is the dream land.

Yes, sometimes I jump out to defend China a little bit, only because on this baord there are some so ignorant people. They don't know anything in the rest of the world. (sometime I even doubt weather they really know the U.S.).

For example, I am one of those who appreciate the U.S..
1. The U.S. is one the the best, if not the best country in the world.
2. The U.S does not come this far for no reason. It has great people.
3. Americans are also the luckest people in the world. The natural resources are just unlimited.
......

The list can go on, but I am not going to list them all.

Of course, the U.S. is not perfect. I am not going to list them here either. I guess most of people here do not like to see them anyway.

BTW, the comment on chopstick, I don't know if it is true. I don't see fork is necessarily more convenient than chopsticks. For asian food, chopstick is much easier. (are you gonna pick up each grain by a fork?). For steak, no doubt, knives and forks will do.


Fortune

-----------------------------------------------
Man oh man, I love this banter going back and forth. I think we have some great race relations here. Here is some more fuel for the fire. A few questions for all the Asians slamming the US:

1) Why are you waisting time here in the US at all? (Outside of raping the country for all its wealth.)

2) If all intelligence comes from the knowledge mecca of the Asian continent - why was the telecom revolution not conceived and fostered in Asia? The vast intelligencia of educated engineers with business acumen could surely manipulate world telcom/datacom practices from Asia.

3) Why do you still use chopsticks? The fork is vastly better - except for maybe cooking bacon.
rjmcmahon 12/5/2012 | 12:31:14 AM
re: The Asian Invasion The US, interestingly enough, wants to withhold funds from international agencies that do birth control counseling in China. Go figure.

Maybe during these Dubya days we are getting our policy positions from Monty Python lyrics? Such as:

For every sperm is sacred, and every sperm is great. For every sperm that's wasted, God becomes irate.
kd2000 12/5/2012 | 12:31:15 AM
re: The Asian Invasion The most important is intellectual property
protection and regulations.
valleyguy 12/5/2012 | 12:31:20 AM
re: The Asian Invasion My administrative assistant is Chinese. I will say here, actually this law makes a lot of sense for the Chinese. About 95% of the population there lives well below what we would call the poverty level. When you have a billion people, you limit your population growth. Period.
chetbr 12/5/2012 | 12:31:21 AM
re: The Asian Invasion Boy talk about a bunch of stuff. My general experience is that most liberal arts types have a very difficult time with analytical thinking, but generally excel at inductive reasoning. It is a type of thought process that a liberal arts education will help enhance. Most people with technical and some business degrees (accounting specifically) tend to stress deductive reasoning and analytical thought. That is one of the reasons that many organizations love to get someone with a technical degree(s) and an MBA, they are able to apply both types of reasoning to a problem and come up with the answer. I think the argueing over degrees is stupid, so is the discussion of value added, it takes all kinds to make a company work, the real question is does your company create value as a whole or not. Personally, if you don't have both types of thinkers and neither is allowed to dominate, you will be in business for a long time, if not you will fail.
gardner 12/5/2012 | 12:31:21 AM
re: The Asian Invasion
On the topic of population - if Chinese are sooooo smart, then why do they enact laws that limit the number of children couples can have andpunish those that exceed these numbers?


Actually I believe they have. The US, interestingly enough, wants to withhold funds from international agencies that do birth control counseling in China. Go figure.
Laser_King 12/5/2012 | 12:31:22 AM
re: The Asian Invasion Man oh man, I love this banter going back and forth. I think we have some great race relations here. Here is some more fuel for the fire. A few questions for all the Asians slamming the US:

1) Why are you waisting time here in the US at all? (Outside of raping the country for all its wealth.)

2) If all intelligence comes from the knowledge mecca of the Asian continent - why was the telecom revolution not conceived and fostered in Asia? The vast intelligencia of educated engineers with business acumen could surely manipulate world telcom/datacom practices from Asia.

3) Why do you still use chopsticks? The fork is vastly better - except for maybe cooking bacon.
mrJade 12/5/2012 | 12:31:26 AM
re: The Asian Invasion BobbyMax ....what can we say about him...RETARTED!
Iipoed 12/5/2012 | 12:31:31 AM
re: The Asian Invasion Why does anyone care about your opinion of BobbyMax, Get a life and post something worthwhile
calpole 12/5/2012 | 12:31:32 AM
re: The Asian Invasion Even if it is extremely clear, Bobbymax
at best is a college drop out,

1. He must be in his 55-65, because he attended
school at a time when there used to be
a few Indian students in the US univs.

Otherwise, he would have learned that all the toppers in any diacipline in any US univ
is an Indian with 75% probability.

2.Where did he get 6-7M Vietnamese?

By his other posts, it is clear that he
has no knowledge of any thing. Again to educate
him more, I would just like to remind him, the
kind of Mathematics and Physics we have
done in our 11th std. in India is even better than
that what US kids receive in the first year
of college.

But still, for research & higher studies,
US universities are better because they have a tradition of 100-200 years where as India was liberated only 50 years back..


vermillion 12/5/2012 | 12:31:39 AM
re: The Asian Invasion Getting back to the topic at hand:

This story is of the very lowest quality, even for LR. Why? Because it concentrates almost entirely on the irrelevancy known as DowsLake Microsystems and their move to China. [Boo! Hiss...]

The DowsLake move to the Shanghai area is utterly meaningless when compared to something like JDSU's move of all but the kitchen sink to Shenzhen. What's wrong with focusing on Agilent? I think we all agree Agilent will still be around next year.

Leaving that aside, let's talk about DowsLake. I checked out a couple of the stories on LR and the company website, and I was apalled. Let me explain.

1. Welcome to Amateur Night
I met a guy from Ottawa once whose job it was to work with Dan Yang after JDSU's takeover of AFC's amplifier business. He claimed he would, say, ask for a design drawing, and she would get out a scrap piece of paper and a pencil and start doodling. Pathetic if true!

Good thing her new company is going for ISO certification later on this year, AFTER her she teaches granny and her mah-jiang circle how to build the modules. It'll be SO much easier to make it up as you go along and then fake the process documentation later. What a joke!

Hasn't this industry grown up yet? Do we really have people who would be players, whose process is two doses of seat-of-the-pants and one dose of yeah-whatever? I thought the long, dismal downturn was supposed to be our time-out to fix all of that amateurish crap!

2. Home for Lunar New Year
Considering that the leadership of this fart-in-a-windstorm of a company appear to be Nanjing U. Physics cronies with graduate degrees from U.S. universities, I would have expected them to do a runner for the cheap labour in their glorious motherland a long time ago. DowsLake hardly qualifies for the theme of the story--telecom components manufacturing moving to Asia. It's more about networking with their mother country: "After you visit for New Year and scarf down a bowl of dumplings with granny and her mah-jiang circle, make sure they wash their hands before they start assembling the amplets!" (or is that "amp-lings" ???).

The fact that they are only doing the move now suggests that they never had customers before, so that economies-of-scale were irrelevant. Now they may either be getting desperate or finding some sales in China (???).

Does the press for DowsLake actually mean that LR editors suspect that DowsLake has some guanxi (connections) that will help them make things happen in China? From what I understand, a few well-placed "uncles" in high places can make a very big difference to doing business in China.

-v
vermillion 12/5/2012 | 12:31:40 AM
re: The Asian Invasion I sincererly apologize to all Light Reading message board readers for my juvenile attack on Bobby Max: "BobbyMax, you Ignornorant Slut!".

Naturally, I meant to say:
"BobbyMax, you Ignorant Slut!"

My fingers acquire a slight stutter when I get to writing a flame like that. Kind of pathetic, huh?

-v
vermillion 12/5/2012 | 12:31:40 AM
re: The Asian Invasion ODH, allow me to explain something. BobbyMax is a complete idiot. We can let the Pidgin English spelling go, but the content is consistently idiotic.

To paraphrase a line from days of old when SNL was still funny: BobbyMax, you Ignornorant Slut! ODH is right, you should stick to the topic: the move of telecom manufacturing to Asia. That goes for crapshooter and his girlfriends too.

BobbyMax: As for your characteristically irrelevant tangent to the topic of interest, please go to http://www.nobel.se and check out the names and nationalities of the laureates, especially in Physics. You will find a number of Indian and Chinese names, both representing India and China, and those listed as Americans.

-v

---
BobbyMax wrote:
"America was invaded by Asians since the mid sixties, ..."

If you have read this article, the subject is the opposite. It's "Asia invaded by Americans" with various optical and semiconductor technologies for the manufacuring expertise. The technology and consumption are from America.
GO_PHOTON 12/5/2012 | 12:31:42 AM
re: The Asian Invasion > I dont know about China, but India has some of
> asias best management schools and lot of
> indians study in top american mngmt schools
> too. there is no shortage of mngmt talent in
> india.

Asia's best colleges are in Japan, Hong Kong,
Singapore, Taiwan, period. In today's world
it is simply not possible to have good universities without having the best
economy.


crapshooter 12/5/2012 | 12:31:44 AM
re: The Asian Invasion I've tried to be kinder in my last couple of posts. I see that neither of you will accept an olive branch. We obviously have differences of opinon. Who is right and who is wrong? Neither...that's why they're called "opinions."

You are nit-picking way too much with these posts.

It's Sunday and, after today, I won't have time to really check the boards until next weekend. I am not going to respond to either of you any longer.

Cheers,
Crapshooter
ODH 12/5/2012 | 12:31:44 AM
re: The Asian Invasion
BobbyMax wrote:
"America was invaded by Asians since the mid sixties, ..."

If you have read this article, the subject is the opposite. It's "Asia invaded by Americans" with various optical and semiconductor technologies for the manufacuring expertise. The technology and consumption are from America.
crapshooter 12/5/2012 | 12:31:45 AM
re: The Asian Invasion FH,

Well said on all accounts. You've expressed things better than I.

Bravo.
grateful photon 12/5/2012 | 12:31:46 AM
re: The Asian Invasion
ok...i wasn't going to mention it, but since fortunecookie highlighted the quote:

that's not an analogy! it's a hyperbole. english major?!?!?!

i don't know what you are, english major, marketing whiz, sales genius, mgmt consultant... you tell us, crapshooter, because it's not obvious from your posts.


Fortunecookie 12/5/2012 | 12:31:47 AM
re: The Asian Invasion The analogy I like to use is a sales person will promise a customer that the sun will rise at midnight if that is what is required to close a deal.
-------------------------------------------------

I am appalled to see this. I can't even finish reading your message. You are way beyond stupid. You are a cheater! I am so sick and tired of all this marketing and sales B*shit. It is exactly you guys who ruined the industry.

Why can't you treat your customers, your colleagues, and yourself honestly?!!!!!

Remember, the SUn DOES NOT RISE AT MIDNIGHT. That's just a flat lie!
rjmcmahon 12/5/2012 | 12:31:47 AM
re: The Asian Invasion This intolerance and continued propagation of ignorance is intolerable. You can do better. Please try harder. Stop with the discrimination mind set. Instead think about how we can create a world full of opportunities, if only by doing a small part of not making things worse.
brahmos 12/5/2012 | 12:31:48 AM
re: The Asian Invasion I believe 9.9 out of 10 people have to be American in sales. Even if that one were Asian, 0.9% of his personality has to be American to succeed.

> USA + EU is greater than 50% of most product markets. as long as this holds true, americans and europeans will rule the roost on the sales side. being born and brought up in the culture is a big leg-up compared to immigrants in verbal communication and cultural understanding.

However when Asian markets become bigger, asian managers (local) will rule there and rise in prominence. people like qualcomm and motorola for instance have bet their futures on success in asian cell markets. There is no need for american managers there. when the stuff is produced in china and sold mostly in china, why do you need a fat highly overpaid expat to run the show ? Find a chinese guy with the right exp. and degrees and use him.

Most americans will never have any understanding
of asian cultures the way asian managers can. the
expat pashas I have seen doing their annual 'road-trip' from a comfortable HQ to seek the status of the natives havent impressed me.

I dont know about China, but India has some of asias best management schools and lot of
indians study in top american mngmt schools too.
there is no shortage of mngmt talent in india.

as to indians in american mngmt I dont care. whatever is there is just an extra - they are of
no use to india mostly.

--
p.s BobbyM : who will pay for your social security if not immigrants from latin america and asia ? the 'natives' have fallen below the replacement rate in most developed countries - italy and japan being most severely affected.

So quit the racist blather and learn some mandarin and hindi.


fairhearing 12/5/2012 | 12:31:49 AM
re: The Asian Invasion
My $0.02 on this debate.

First, my background, I have an
Engineering degree, a business degree
and I read Engineering/Technical stuff
and Business, Economics, Politics, Literature
with equal interest and passion.

I worked as an Engineer, Manager, and a Marketing guy.

Here is my experience :

1. You need everyone (Engineering, Sales,
Marketing, Finance etc) to succeed.

2. To be REALLY good at anything : You need
focus, dedication and hardwork.
Networking skills, communication skills
can be big help.

3. Marketing appears to be easy for an Enginner.
But, Good Marketing is not ... To be able
to position something for success, you DO need
good understanding of Technology, Marketplace,
Competitors etc...

4. An Engineer appears to be narrowly focused
for a Marketeer. To be a good Engineer, You
better be deep and focused...on whatever you
are doing. There is no room for error.

5. Asian and American issue : This comes up
too often on this site unfortunately...

There are hardworking Asians AND Americans.
There are LAZY Asians AND Americans.

An american will have some advantage when
it comes to Sales. This has nothing to do
with race, or ethnicity. It has everything to
do with the "Culture" in which he/she
has grown up. What that means is that
a Chinese American or an Indian American
can be equally successfull in Sales (in US)
as an European American.

Please avoid stereotyping and broad
generalizations.

The only thing that is important is to try to
'be good at whatever you are doing'.

FH




crapshooter 12/5/2012 | 12:31:51 AM
re: The Asian Invasion Curry rice,

Thanks for joining the party.

No. No... managers that rise through the ranks help the company make lots of money. They are the sales people that bring in the dough. Engineers can't be sales people because they like to give it to you straight. If 2+2=4, the engineer will tell you 4 where as the sales guy will tell you it's 3 or 5 depending on whatever answer is going to close the deal.

-----------------------

CR: you're right about sales. I argue with our sales force constantly about their ability to make 2+2 equal anything they want (3 or 5 is actually being kind; I've seen sales make 2+4 equal exponentially high numbers). The analogy I like to use is a sales person will promise a customer that the sun will rise at midnight if that is what is required to close a deal.

Having said that, Sales is a necessary animal. We can all say what we want, but a company without Sales is not really a company at all. Can sales people be overly tenacious and distort the facts? Absolutely. Do they have the skills and mindset to turn over every stone and pebble to ensure that they are hitting every possible facet of the market, to make sure there is a constant revenue stream to keep the company afloat? Of course.

-------------------------
I believe 9.9 out of 10 people have to be American in sales. Even if that one were Asian, 0.9% of his personality has to be American to succeed. So the top money makers will always rise to top managerial positions because they've proven that they'll do whatever it takes to make the company money.

CR: just about every job has some sales involved, whether you're selling to a customer or your own manager. And, yes, the top managerial positions will always be comprised of the top money makers. A CEO needs the personality to sell his company to investors, his seconds-in command, his employees, the media, etc. In a nutshell, the CEO may have started life as an engineer, but he/she needs to be able to sell as well if the company is to succeed.

----------------------
Crapshooter... a person doesn't go get an engineering degree to obtain an analytical mindset. It is a person with an analytical mind that goes out to get an engineering degree. You can't even comprehend simple logic such as this. How can you have even hoped to get an engineering degree? That is why you had to opt for something that's a lot less treacherous on the brain. =)

CR: Yes, you are correct. A person who seeks an engineering degree already has analytical mindet, but those years of coursework can't help but intensify a person's mindset and skew their perspective. What, a person with an inherent analytical mindset has never gone on to pursue a liberal arts degree? Would years of courses in a "liberal" discipline, perhaps, make a person se things a little more abstractly?

-----------------------------
I do believe you have to stay on top of your company's newest technology. Probably a bird's eye view of everything. From that high up, everything seems simple right?

CR: My view of the company's technology is not as in-depth as that of the key technologists. It is not, however, a "bird's eye view." I have published white papers on different subjects. Yes, I had help from engineering, but knowledge us not a weapon - it is a tool. That's why my company appreciates my English degree: maybe one of our engineers has something useful and valid to publish, but isn't experienced in writing long articles. I am happy to lend my expertise to him/her.

---------------------------

Please...o please don't try to tell us that your company wouldn't have been so successful if you didn't come along. Your company's successful because of its product (developed by engineers). You merely beat out your competitor to close the deal. I won't even ask what you had to tell them to win your deals. Probably shoot them a lot of crap.....

CR: My company would have been successful with or without me, that is true. I did have to beat several "competitors," but beat them I did by proving myself worthy to several levels of senior management. As I've said in previous posts, I am very good in my area of excellence, and it is an honorable career choice, regardless of what other posters may think. I saved the crap shooting for the LR boards :).


crapshooter 12/5/2012 | 12:31:51 AM
re: The Asian Invasion Don't nitpick so much. The word "prominent" is entirely appropriate as an adjective for my alma mater. I am simply trying to maintain anonymity.
curry_rice 12/5/2012 | 12:31:52 AM
re: The Asian Invasion Oh, you forgot to answer the question. The question was what degree and from what school.

You answered a "prominent" university. One of the definitions of prominent is "Immediately noticeable; conspicuous". Does that mean an immediately noticeable conspicuous university?
BobbyMax 12/5/2012 | 12:31:52 AM
re: The Asian Invasion America was invaded by Asians since the mid sixties. The main invasion came from the Indians and Chines. It was very difficult for Indians to go to the United Kingdom for any purpose. There were a lot of claims for Indians to make the neighborhhod and the dweeling very dirty.

With the passage of the civil rights act of 1964, a lot of Indians and Cinese were helped by the Affirmatice Actions practiced by the American Industries and the educational institutions. The help came to enter the premier universities and gettinhg jobs. The real victims of discrinations were simply ignored.

Many states have fallen to the chinese and Indians (e.g, California, State of Washington). The immi8gration has also led subtantial sub-standard education at all levels of our academic institutions.

The American System does not recognise academic accomplishments. In fact, any body can get a job regardless of once education.. This itself has led to a lot of corru[tion in the industry> Some of the community Colleges in California have [produced thousands of CEOs. This does not happen anywhere except in the US. This must stop as it brings a lot of humiliation to the workers and other concerned parties.
curry_rice 12/5/2012 | 12:31:53 AM
re: The Asian Invasion Asians hardly every rise through the ranks in American companies to top managerial positions. Why? Because for all heir "education," they, for the most part, have poor personality skills and have tunnel vision.
-------------------------------------------------
No. No... managers that rise through the ranks help the company make lots of money. They are the sales people that bring in the dough. Engineers can't be sales people because they like to give it to you straight. If 2+2=4, the engineer will tell you 4 where as the sales guy will tell you it's 3 or 5 depending on whatever answer is going to close the deal.

It takes a certain personality to succeed with an English and Marketing degree. Not everybody is up to this kind of challenge. Not everyone is able to "think outside the box."

I believe 9.9 out of 10 people have to be American in sales. Even if that one were Asian, 0.9% of his personality has to be American to succeed.

So the top money makers will always rise to top managerial positions because they've proven that they'll do whatever it takes to make the company money.

Crapshooter... a person doesn't go get an engineering degree to obtain an analytical mindset. It is a person with an analytical mind that goes out to get an engineering degree. You can't even comprehend simple logic such as this. How can you have even hoped to get an engineering degree? That is why you had to opt for something that's a lot less treacherous on the brain. =)

I do believe you have to stay on top of your company's newest technology. Probably a bird's eye view of everything. From that high up, everything seems simple right?

Please...o please don't try to tell us that your company wouldn't have been so successful if you didn't come along. Your company's successful because of its product (developed by engineers). You merely beat out your competitor to close the deal. I won't even ask what you had to tell them to win your deals. Probably shoot them a lot of crap.....
crapshooter 12/5/2012 | 12:31:56 AM
re: The Asian Invasion It seems you kind of agree GP: "Yeah, liberal arts degrees are much easy than engieering degrees. However, since I had hardship at undergradute, so for myself, getting a liberal arts degree was not that easy." Is that what you are trying to say?

---------------

I didn't say that engineering degrees are more difficult to obtain than liberal arts one. I said that every academic pursuit presents its own set of difficulties and challenges. Whether you study Shakespeare, photons or Freud, there is much to learn - and one really never learns all there is to know.

Perhaps posting my personal hardship as an undergraduate was not entirely "apples to apples" in response to GP's post. It has been so long since I was an undergrad that my strife stands out as the clearest memories from that time in my life.
Fortunecookie 12/5/2012 | 12:31:57 AM
re: The Asian Invasion Finally, I was not looking for congratulations or even recognition for the sacrifices I made to get my undergraduate degree. I was simply stating that it was not quite as easy as you may have thought.
------------------------------------------------
Crapshooter,
It seems I have hard time to understand your logic and reasoning. GP was comparing engineering degree and liberal arts degree, but you brought up you personal experience at undergraduate. I am sure there are tons of engineering students who had some hardship as well. For example, myself. My parents could not support me at all. I don't think this is relevant to the topic though. Have your heard apple-to-apple comparison?

It seems you kind of agree GP: "Yeah, liberal arts degrees are much easy than engieering degrees. However, since I had hardship at undergradute, so for myself, getting a liberal arts degree was not that easy." Is that what you are trying to say?

GP might be wrong, but your logic is totally off the target.

Regards,

Fortune

crapshooter 12/5/2012 | 12:31:58 AM
re: The Asian Invasion Grateful Photon,

I'm not speaking about marketing alone. A real company needs accounting, IT, QA, customer service, technians, shipping/receiving, a receptionist, etc. I will slightly modify what I have said previously: engineers are an important part of the company (the technology is, of course, key), but they can't do it alone.

As for my comments about engineers not being able to think outside the box, perhaps that is too strong a generalization. However, many (I won't say all) engineers do tend to see the world in black and white. My dad is a lifelong mechanical engineer and we have had discussions on this topic on several occassions. He has admitted to not being able to always see all of the many shades of gray that lay between black and white.

With regards to the difficulty of obtaining and engineering degree as opposed to a liberal arts one, I think that all educational pursuits have their own degrees of difficulty and challenges. They also help to shape the mind in different ways. For example, although I do not have a degree in engineering, I imagine that people who do become somewhat analytical thinkers; this is, perhaps, necessary to succeed in that discipline. With liberal arts, an individual's thought process is shaped to see and appreciate the shades of gray a little bit more. Neither is right or wrong; they are just a little bit different.

Finally, I was not looking for congratulations or even recognition for the sacrifices I made to get my undergraduate degree. I was simply stating that it was not quite as easy as you may have thought.

We may have gotten off on the wrong foot. As I have stated earlier in this post, I made some generalizations that were too broad. My apologies for that.

Crapshooter
grateful photon 12/5/2012 | 12:32:02 AM
re: The Asian Invasion
100 engineers creating value will generate revenue. if you want examples, look no further than how the many of the top companies in america were founded. yes, with a more diverse employee base, they can do even more, even better. and yes, sometimes good technology languishes for lack of marketing.

your provocative generalization that technically trained people can't "think outside the box" reveals your own arrogance. get out your pop psych book...maybe it says your a little insecure.

as for your personal struggle to finish your education, while i acknowlege your fortitude, it's not germane to the discussion. most people had financial hardship in college and felt the pain of growing up in those years. i walked up hill both ways in the snow, too.

BUT, the level of training, the mental rigor, and the sheer amount of work to obtain an engineering degree puts the academic endeavors of technical folk heads above the vast majority of LAS folk. i really don't know how you argue any different, unless you never have had an appreciation for what a technical degree requires. i don't want a pissing contest, and i don't expect you to salute me or my engineering brethren. these are merely the facts.

congratulations on telling the world about the better mousetrap your company created. now, follow the root of the value creation. the things that can actually be shipped off the dock in exchange for cash. that is why you have a job. i know it's more convenient to forget all that. but the market will give you a painful reminder if you do.
Fortunecookie 12/5/2012 | 12:32:03 AM
re: The Asian Invasion <there <br="" a="" americans="" are="" ass="" bunch="" fat="" for="" lazy="" of="" us.="" working="">
<for americans="" and="" asians,="" at="" away="" browsing<br="" came="" country="" i="" is="" lazy="" many="" on="" our="" phone="" saw="" seriously.="" take="" the="" their="" this="" time="" to="" very="" wasting="" we="" web="" when="" work="" worship="">
----------------------------------------------
C'mon, Kwokkong, Gimmy a break, America is still the best now, and will be for many years. What makes you so myopic?

I personally have seen many great American scientists and engineers. I give them my full respect. Tell you the truth, the best I have seen are Americans.</for></there>
Bill Johnson 12/5/2012 | 12:32:03 AM
re: The Asian Invasion fortunecookie wrote:
"" I know the US does not make them that small". This sentence is complete racist. BTW, I bet yours is smaller than a donkey's anyway, do you mean you are inferior to a donkey?

Alright, I am out. Educating you is completely wasting of my time, and education is not free anyway."

Not racist but stereotypical. I was merely trying to address that KK was incorrect in using stereotypes as well as inject a little humor. Why would you think I was being racist? Have you been speaking with Al Sharpton?

As for donkeys, they and others in the equine genus are very well endowed. Although I cannot compete with horses, there is a reason that the male member is often referred to as a "johnson". :-)

I never asked for you to educate me. Learn to write properly before you offer to tutor anyone. Your spelling is atrocious. As for my education, you can simply call me doctor.
Fortunecookie 12/5/2012 | 12:32:04 AM
re: The Asian Invasion On the topic of population - if Chinese are sooooo smart, then why do they enact laws that limit the number of children couples can have and punish those that exceed these numbers? Ever heard of birth control? Condoms? I know the US does not make them that small but perhaps the Asian manufacturing giants could address this.
-----------------------------------------------
Chinese ain't sooooo smart, but not so stupid either. I believe they are just as smart as other people in the rest of the rest. Nothing more, nothing less.

The only advantage of Chinese is their cheap labor.

One child policy. I agree, it is cruel, but don't forget the context. I personally do not like many things that Chinese government has done and is doing, but I think Chinese government is right on this.

Birth control, Comdoms? Have you ever been to China or you still live in last century? Seriously, your ignorance is not funny at all.

" I know the US does not make them that small". This sentence is complete racist. BTW, I bet yours is smaller than a donkey's anyway, do you mean you are inferior to a donkey?

Alright, I am out. Educating you is completely wasting of my time, and education is not free anyway.
crapshooter 12/5/2012 | 12:32:04 AM
re: The Asian Invasion Grateful photon, you pompous weasel, it takes all kinds to make a company run efficiently. If a 100-person company had 100 engineers in its employ, how far would it get? It might make one hell of an R&D center, but how would it generate revenue?

How dare you call me a "hanger-on." When I walked into the doors of the startup where I now work, NO ONE heard of them. Now, WE are well known in the industry. Sure, the economy sucks, but we are surviving and in better shape than most of the companies out there (this has been said by more than one LR editor).

As for the pissing contest you're trying to start about our respective college majors, save your breath. I worked damn hard to achieve my academic degrees. During my sophmore year, my father (a European immigrant) went on long-term disability and couldn't afford to pay my tuition. I went on to work full-time (9 hours a day Monday - Thursday) and took 2 1/2 years of coursework at night and all day Friday. Four nights a week I also worked a second job. In between all of that, I managed to study and graduate with a 3.43 GPA (not tops in my class, but I'm proud of it, considering how much I had to do to get that far).

Don't worry about trying to "expose" me. There are no skeletons in my closet. I am the best at what I do and my employers appreciate my efforts. We make several different products and I am one of the few people in the company that needs to be up to speed on all of them. And I manage to do just fine, even though I am a dumb old English major.
crapshooter 12/5/2012 | 12:32:04 AM
re: The Asian Invasion Bill Johnson wrote:

Manufacturing will continue to grow in Asian SWEAT-SHOPS because the labor costs are drastically lower in third-world countries than the rest of the world but the workmanship is not always top-notch.

-----------------

This reminds me of an incident at my last job (entirely different industry). We received a videotape from a Chinese factory that was manufacturing a product similar to ours. A portion of the tape was devoted to the "living" conditions of the factory workers. The tape showed a dingy barracks with bunkbeds closely packed together. The narrator boasted "we give our worker three bowls rice a day." Oh, joy of joys!

I am not ignorant; I realize that three bowls of rice on a daily basis is luxurious for the masses in many parts of the world (China included). However, it does speak volumes for the overall state of China, and that we are talking about a third-world country. Of course, there is poverty in the U.S. (and in all of the six developed continents) but this is the exception in America and not the norm.

I just did some grocery shopping. It's freezing cold here in the Northeast, yet I was able to easily purchase fresh fruit and vegetables. The meat cases were also fully stocked, as was the dairy department. Is this the best country in the world or what?
crapshooter 12/5/2012 | 12:32:05 AM
re: The Asian Invasion Bill Johnson wrote:

On the topic of population - if Chinese are sooooo smart, then why do they enact laws that limit the number of children couples can have and punish those that exceed these numbers? Ever heard of birth control? Condoms? I know the US does not make them that small but perhaps the Asian manufacturing giants could address this.

---------------------

Righteous post, Bill. Righteous.
grateful photon 12/5/2012 | 12:32:05 AM
re: The Asian Invasion
"...salaries are at an all time high when compared to their mail counterparts..."

english degree?

"A college-level degree with a pure focus on technical coursework can and does limit the ability for one to think outside the box."

this is unmitigated bullshit espoused by a non-technical person along for the ride in tech. while many of you hangers-on succeed in lining your pockets, it's comments like the one above that show your true colors. i worked very hard at my university degrees...much harder than marketing and english majors. it took much higher marks to get into my degree field. it took much higher analytical thinking. the same things that make for data-driven execution and decision-making in business. for every technical person who "can't think outside the box," as you say, there are a dozen LAS people who can't grasp the technology or the strategy.

technology gets done in the absence of english majors and marketing folks, engineers fill those positions in their spare time. the opposite simply does not happen.

your comments embody the worst of the tech boom: the lackies that jumped on the train without buying a ticket. you, carly fiorina and your ilk will all be exposed.

Fortunecookie 12/5/2012 | 12:32:06 AM
re: The Asian Invasion <1) Yes, women in America have historically had a difficult time rising through the ranks. However, this has improved dramatically over the past two decades. A recent article in the Wall Street Journal points out that American women's salaries are at an all time high when compared to their mail counterparts. There is still a gap, but it has shrunk and continued to do so every year. Perfect, no, but real progress. Don't forget...women in the workplace was frowned upon up until very recent history.

Did you notice that more and more Asians move up to management as well in the past 10 years?


<2) Yes, some of the greatest companies in the world have been (and continue to be) run by engineers. However, I can assure you that the prominent figures you have mentioned spent considerable effort learning the business side of things to complement their technical skills.

Why don't also say that many business guys also spent considerable time to catch up new technology concepts?


3) As for my college background, I have a bachelor's degree in English and a Master's in marketing - both obtained from a prominent American university.

Well, I guess your educational background explains all. A typical marketing idiot. You don't have a good logic and reasoning. Buddy, seriously, I would suggest you to get some engineering (or science) training. That will help you in your life.
crapshooter 12/5/2012 | 12:32:07 AM
re: The Asian Invasion King Kong wrote:

Now a days most of the upper management in high tech companies are asians. I am the chief architect of a high tech startup and the CEO is asian too. There are a bunch of fat ass lazy americans working for us.

For many asians, work is worship and we take our work very seriously. When I came to this country I saw lazy americans at work wasting away their time on the phone and web browsing.

--------------------------------

The fact that the upper management of many of the high-tech startups is Asian only further proves my point. Startups in opto are hurting, and not just from the economic downturn. They are greatly mis-managed and doomed to failure. Even in good times, a lot of these companies would fail; the poor economy is only so much of an acceptable excuse.

I agree that work is "worship" for many Asians. I have said nothing negative about the Asian work ethic. However, work is only one part of life. Americans understand the need to stop and smell the roses from time to time. So many people see the world in black and white that I wonder if they can even distinguish the roses from the background.

With regards to the work habits of some of your American employees, I wonder why you wouldn't simply fire them if they, indeed, spent the day chatting on the phone and surfing the net.
crapshooter 12/5/2012 | 12:32:07 AM
re: The Asian Invasion 1) Yes, women in America have historically had a difficult time rising through the ranks. However, this has improved dramatically over the past two decades. A recent article in the Wall Street Journal points out that American women's salaries are at an all time high when compared to their mail counterparts. There is still a gap, but it has shrunk and continued to do so every year. Perfect, no, but real progress. Don't forget...women in the workplace was frowned upon up until very recent history.

2) Yes, some of the greatest companies in the world have been (and continue to be) run by engineers. However, I can assure you that the prominent figures you have mentioned spent considerable effort learning the business side of things to complement their technical skills. My comments about Asian engineers failing to gain top-level positions relates to the fact that many of them do NOT take the additional business courses in school to provide the beginnings of a skillset that will help them to succeed in key managerial positions. A college-level degree with a pure focus on technical coursework can and does limit the ability for one to think outside the box.

3) As for my college background, I have a bachelor's degree in English and a Master's in marketing - both obtained from a prominent American university.
Bill Johnson 12/5/2012 | 12:32:07 AM
re: The Asian Invasion kwokkong wrote:
"Manufacturing is already in Asia. Soon all software and hardware development will be done in asia. People from China and Hong kong are very educated and smart and can do everything very efficient. Americans don't work hard as the asians."

kk, all of your posts on this thread have been very stereotypical and short-sighted. I am glad that you are proud of your Asian heritage but to state that all Asians have a stronger work ethic than Americans is truly asinine. I can agree that Asians are perhaps on the whole more disciplined when it comes to academia but not on work ethics.

Manufacturing will continue to grow in Asian SWEAT-SHOPS because the labor costs are drastically lower in third-world countries than the rest of the world but the workmanship is not always top-notch. SW and HW development is worlswide and the US continues to be the forerunner.

As for people from Hong Kong and China being very educated, smart, and overly efficient; you are again being stereotypical and misled. There are some very bright people in both locales but the percentage of these people is extremely small compared to the population as a whole.

On the topic of population - if Chinese are sooooo smart, then why do they enact laws that limit the number of children couples can have and punish those that exceed these numbers? Ever heard of birth control? Condoms? I know the US does not make them that small but perhaps the Asian manufacturing giants could address this.
BobbyMax 12/5/2012 | 12:32:08 AM
re: The Asian Invasion The Asian educatuion is very limited in scope. The students there do not have broad-based skills need to succeed in the american society. The education o0f Asian students is primarily confined to text books alone. There is a serious flaw to apply the text book knowledge to solving real world problems. Because of this serious deficiency in the educational process, Asia with the exception of Japan has done well.

America does not depend on foreign talents to advance technology and science. A lot of Asian students and workers came here because of the US Governmernt's weak policy and pure politics. The immigration from Asia has occured due to extreme greed of American companies. Typically in Asia students get their Masters degree in four years, but the american stdents spend four years to get their Bachelor's degree. So there is no equivalence betwwen the academic traing of American and Asian students.

The Asian poulation that was allowed to immigrate consisted of all kinds of people: Gas Statuion Attendants, restaurant workers, taxi drivers, laundry workers, etc.

Because of excessive immigration of Asian workers, many states and communities have like third world countries. It has affected the life style of americans forever. There will be no recovery from this disaster.

Because of the cultural influence of Asian parents, the likelihood of an Asian student, even those attending MIT, Harvard, Princeton, or Stanford is very unlikely.

The American society is very generous and giving, but the Asian people do not contribute much to the communities they live in. This is the biggest drawback of Asians.

During the Vitnam conflict, dumped over 5-6 million vietanamese in the US. Similar dumpings took place during other conflicts in the world. During the last Iraqui war, thousands and thousands of Iraquis were dumped in State of Michigan.

Before the HI Visa workers left USA, they had 3-4 US born children. So we will a large influsx of immigrants in the next 12-15 years. By the way legal immigration itself poses a lot of problems. These legal immigrants make a town of the size of Fort Worth every year. The US Government does not have resources to absorb these people.
zli2g 12/5/2012 | 12:32:10 AM
re: The Asian Invasion Crapshooter wrote these words of "wisdom":

Asians hardly every rise through the ranks in American companies to top managerial positions.
Why? Because for all heir "education," they, for the most part, have poor personality skills and have tunnel vision.

In this industry, the American companies that were started by Asian engineers have little chance for survival. Why? Because they're run by people with engineering degrees (read "no business acumen whatsoever").
==========================
Crapshooter: A few questions for you below...

Do American (Caucasian) women "rise through the ranks in American companies"?? Or become President of the USA for that matter????

If not, is it because they "have poor personality skills and have tunnel vision" ??????

How many of world's biggest and most successful companies were run by the Americans with great "personality" and great "vision"????

Crapshooter also wrote:
"Why? Because they're run by people with engineering degrees (read "no business acumen whatsoever")."

Was Steve Job an engineer? What about Bill Gates? And Larry Ellison? I remember they all did coding before they were rich.

What about Mr Hewlett and Mr Packard? What about Andy Grove, or Gordon More, or Craig Barret? What about John Chen, CEO of Sybase, who was an engineer from Caltech (so was Gordon Moore)?

What kind of degree do you Crapshooter have? And from what kind of school? Let us know please ...

zli2g 12/5/2012 | 12:32:10 AM
re: The Asian Invasion <2. General honesty level
<4. Business Ethics

If anything, the past few years have showcased
the corruption in corporate America and on Wall
Street.

The difference between US and Asia when it comes to honesty level and business ethics are:

a. American CEOs and investors rip-off the victims in an "elegant" and "sophisticated" way with instruments such as compensation and severance packages as in the case of Jack Welch of GE, Christakos former CEO of E*Trade, and Capellas of Compaq, etc..... More below....

b. Average citizens of both east and west will take advantage of "freebies" such as MP3, software, etc...

c. Perhaps other people on this board can note other exmaples/differences of greed and corruption in both the east and the west.

See attached news story concerning Capellas severance.

Also, San Francisco Chronicle today reports, quoting Cox News Service, that average of 50 S&P500 CEO gets $16.5 million in severance with the largest at $80 million. Less than 2% of companies studied will pay a CEO less than one year's salary as severance. "Performance seems to have no baring on compensation, the study noted." )

HP investor seeks limit on severance
Union protests ex-president's golden parachute

Benjamin Pimentel, Chronicle Staff Writer Friday, February 28, 2003

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Disturbed by the $14.4 million golden parachute that former Hewlett- Packard President Michael Capellas received when he left the company, a union is attempting to muster shareholder support to limit the size of executive severance packages in the future.

Acting in its capacity as an HP investor, the Service Employees International Union has authored a proposal that would require the HP board to obtain shareholder approval for any proposed severance package that is more than 2.99 times a departing executive's salary plus bonuses, according to a company proxy statement filed Thursday with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

The proposal is one of nine on the ballot at the company's shareholder meeting on April 2 in Atlanta.

Capellas left HP in November to become the chief executive officer of WorldCom, after receiving the $14.4 million separation payment.

In addition, he received a $1.9 million annual incentive payment and $100, 000 to cover such needs as tax preparation, security and accounting.

His base salary in 2002 was $800,000, according to the document.

The package had been approved by the board of the former Compaq Computer, where Capellas served as CEO before HP acquired the Texas company last year. HP assumed Capellas' employment agreement after the merger.

In its proposal, the SEIU acknowledged that such an agreement "may be appropriate in some circumstances."

But citing news reports on the negative reactions of analysts and Wall Street to Capellas' sudden departure, the labor organization argued that "given the magnitude of the benefits payable under such agreements, we believe the company should seek shareholder approval of any future such agreements."

The group added that requiring shareholder approval of such agreements may also insulate the HP board "from manipulation in the event an executive's employment must be terminated."

HP has asked shareholders to vote against the SEIU proposal, saying it would hinder the board's ability to recruit the best talent for executive positions.

"We believe that the board needs flexibility to design compensation packages, including severance arrangements, to compete for executive talent," HP said in rebuttal statement included in the SEC document. Charles Elson, director of the Center for Corporate Governance at the University of Delaware, said the SEIU proposal makes sense, adding that Capellas' severance package was extremely generous.

"That's quite a bit of money to say goodbye," he said. "Why make an individual extraordinarily wealthy when he leaves to do something else? Did it benefit the shareholders of HP and Compaq?"

Capellas could not be reached for comment.

E-mail Benjamin Pimentel at [email protected]

---------------
<1. Infrastructure and population problem
This indeed is a big problem.

<2. General honesty level
Thought this was true before I heard Enron, Worldcom, Qwest, Xerox, (The list can go on and on) scandals. I definitely do not trust most executives in most Corportae Americans, let alone wall street crooks.

<3. VC attitude(Asians are careful investors)
Is this good or bad? Apparently Asia does not suffer post bubble pain as much as the U.S. do.

<4. Business Ethics
Asia has lots of hard and dedicated work bees.

<5. Political/Ethnic problem
I would agree with you if I was in my first 3 years in the U.S.. However, after I come to the US for so long, I start to doubt it. Politics in the U.S. might just be as ugly.

crapshooter 12/5/2012 | 12:32:11 AM
re: The Asian Invasion "A free country will always do better than a repressed one."

------------------

Amen, brother.
crapshooter 12/5/2012 | 12:32:19 AM
re: The Asian Invasion kwokkong writes:
Yes, people from China and Hong Kong are very educated and smart and can do everything every efficient. Americans don't work hard as the asians. (Interesting grammar, by the way, my Asian friend.)

Listen, you horse-tooth jackass. What good does all that "hard work" get the Asians? An extra bowl of rice? Big friggin' deal. For all their education, Asians hardly every rise through the ranks in American companies to top managerial positions. Why? Because for all heir "education," they, for the most part, have poor personality skills and have tunnel vision.

In this industry, the American companies that were started by Asian engineers have little chance for survival. Why? Because they're run by people with engineering degrees (read "no business acumen whatsoever").

For a country of people that don't work very hard, per-capita income is among the best in the world.

Stop knockin' my country. If you don't like my comments, you can stick it where the sun don't shine.

Cheers,
Crapshooter
recession2002 12/5/2012 | 12:32:19 AM
re: The Asian Invasion People image on American is that
it has the best talents in the world as
well as a lot of stupid dumb ass.
Less than 5% American are the talents,
the rest of the 95% are common or even
dumb ass due to the failure in education
system. I have a lot of Indian and Chinese
friends. They learn Alegbra or Calculus in
Junior High, I learn it from senior high or
even in college. Just wonder how to compete?
I feel the pressure in the college. I see
more and more american(excluding asian american)
switching the major again from engineering. In
graduate school, the situation looks pretty bad, I feel like minority. When I came out and work,
the situation is even worse, most of the engineers are chinese or indian.
tsat 12/5/2012 | 12:32:19 AM
re: The Asian Invasion A free country will alway do better than a repressed one.

-tsat
crapshooter 12/5/2012 | 12:32:20 AM
re: The Asian Invasion zettabit writes: .....with its serious image problem in much of the world. Are the world's best & brightest still seeing AMerica as the place to be?

If George Bush is meant to be the shining example of what the American educational system can produce, I shudder to think of what the future brings.

--------------------

1) Quite frankly, the opinions of the rest of the world really don't concern true Americans. This is the greatest nation on earth. Period.

2) George W. Bush is far from perfect, but I'll take him over the Communist jackasses in the Chinese government any day of the week.
recession2002 12/5/2012 | 12:32:23 AM
re: The Asian Invasion Honestly speaking, going back to Asia and working
as an engineer is not a wise move. They pay low over there. No much opportunity for engineers.
There are too many engineers there and you will be nothing unless you have some connections over there or you have already got a job offer to relocate back home with decent pay. Otherwise, the
opportunity over there is only for management, sales, marketing and finance. Engineer is just a cheap labor unless you own yours.
recession2002 12/5/2012 | 12:32:23 AM
re: The Asian Invasion US has the best graduate schools. When I was in Berkely, I notice that 2/3 are not American. However, the good news is that most of the graduated are contributing in US. US is a magnet to the talents of the worlds. Almost all the top 1% students in India or China in engineering/CS field are happy to come here for the advanced degree. Here you can meet the best of the best. No places like this in the world. In addition, it is very easy to get VC funding here. Most of the engineers in China or India are hardworking and can do pretty good job but not many of them(may be 1%) are really top notch. However, in software or hardware industry when the technology is mature. You don't need top notch, hardworking mediocre will fit in. That is what happening now. Oracle, Cisco, Microsoft and more are moving some of the DEVELOPMENT to Inida or China because they don't need super-hero to build up the applications or kernel/engine enhancement. I believe that the future software corporation will be like this. In US, we have a couple of tiger teams, they come up with good ideas, develop the framework or fundation and skeleton and move on to next challenging project. Let the left-over or easy-to-do job to the people in India or China.
If you are not top notch or in management(highlevel), you better have your career change or expect your career life span of less than 15 years.
recession2002 12/5/2012 | 12:32:24 AM
re: The Asian Invasion The golden rule is one engineer in US costs the
same as four over there with the same intellectual capabilities. As a senior software manager, I strongly support the concept of globalization. Basically, I want a mix of bag of guru and some cheap labors. There are 40 people working for me. 30 in India, 10 are here. Those 30 over are called followers. They can do excellent job with some guidance and their pay is reasonable(low). The 10 over here are known as guru and top notch. They are the driving force of the technology, most of them holding advanced degree from top school. In US, we pay the engineer more and we expect them more. No mediocre for high pay job. If you are only as good as the engineers in India or China, then I will fire you and replace you by them with no mercy. Today in US(bay area), more than 50% of engineers are classified as mediocre, they will be replaced within the next few years. If you are top notch, you have no impact and you deserve the high pay because of your talent. I strongly believe in "Work Smart rather than Work Hard".
HeavyDuty 12/5/2012 | 12:32:27 AM
re: The Asian Invasion << It is just a different mind set... Don't you think a free world is more dynamic? People has free access to information and knowledge. >>

Your definition of free is interesting. People are encouraged to think of new things in large part due to the motivation of potential wealth from something that someone might eventually develop into a profitable product. To wit, note the difference in innovation, and the resulting economic growth, between the British-colonial Hong Kong and the "People's Republic" of China for the duration of HK's colonial status.

If no one finds a use for a patent then maybe it's "overuse." If you don't try how do you know?

<< In a poor economic, although the bubble might be smaller, but the impact of the bubble wil be as big. >>

A bubble is a sign that an economy is growing too fast and/or for the wrong reason (e.g., the "new internet economy" bubble). Most poor economies are poor because they lack growth; fast, slow or otherwise.

China's economy grows, but not so fast that it threatens to overtake the post-bubble, second-largest economy in the world any time soon. China's economy can't grow to the size of the world's largest economy, because without sales to the aforementioned largest economy China has no engine for it's current economic growth.

<< It just happened that I moved to this country years ago. It is like asking a people living in CA why not move back to NJ or Boston. >>

No, it isn't.
Fortunecookie 12/5/2012 | 12:32:30 AM
re: The Asian Invasion << 2. General honesty level
Thought this was true before I heard Enron, Worldcom, Qwest, Xerox, (The list can go on and on) scandals. I definitely do not trust most executives in most Corportae Americans, let alone wall street crooks. >>

<greed <br="" and="" are="" but="" china's="" copy="" ethics="" for="" intellectual,="" is="" lack="" material="" most="" of="" patented="" probably="" problems="" property.="" protected="" reference="" respect="" the="" to="" traditional="" universal,="">
Don't you think the US over patent, to some extend? It is just a different mind set. For example, some people think Linux will take over Unix because of its open source. Don't you think a free world is more dynamic? People has free access to information and knowledge. I used to work in BELL labs. I think we over patented a lot of trash.

<< Asia does not suffer post bubble pain as much as the U.S. do. >>

<see (per="" a="" an="" asia="" bubble="" capita)="" develop="" economy="" first.<br="" for="" japan.="" large="" needs="" of="" rest="" sufficiently="" the="" to="">
Please further elaborate. I don't get your reasoning. The pain of bubble is tied to the ratio of the magnitude of bubble and the economic level. In a poor economic, although the bubble might be smaller, but the impact of the bubble wil be as big.

<< <4. Business Ethics
Asia has lots of hard and dedicated work bees. >>

<clean miss!="" o'post.<br="" see="" top="">

<< Politics in the U.S. might just be as ugly. >>

<sometimes but="" it="" live="" might="" of="" on="" seem="" side="" so,="" the="" this="" water.="" why?<br="" you="">
It just happened that I moved to this country years ago. It is like asking a people living in CA why not move back to NJ or Boston.

I am not saying China is better than the US. As a matter of fact, China still has lots of place to catch up.

After all, I love this country. I am happy that I can contribute my knowledge to this country.
</sometimes></clean></see></greed>
HeavyDuty 12/5/2012 | 12:32:32 AM
re: The Asian Invasion << 2. General honesty level
Thought this was true before I heard Enron, Worldcom, Qwest, Xerox, (The list can go on and on) scandals. I definitely do not trust most executives in most Corportae Americans, let alone wall street crooks. >>

Greed and ethics problems are universal, but the reference is most probably to China's traditional lack of respect for intellectual, copy protected and patented material/property.

<< Asia does not suffer post bubble pain as much as the U.S. do. >>

See Japan. The rest of Asia needs an economy sufficiently large (per capita) for a bubble to develop first.

<< <4. Business Ethics
Asia has lots of hard and dedicated work bees. >>

Clean miss! See top o'post.

<< Politics in the U.S. might just be as ugly. >>

Sometimes it might seem so, but you live on this side of the water. Why?

HeavyDuty 12/5/2012 | 12:32:34 AM
re: The Asian Invasion << I'm moving back to Hongkong when the startup I work for(Shittacom) folds. ie, soon. >>

Have a safe trip.

We'll probably see you again when we shake off the latest doldrums; ask the Japanese.

You'll get some interesting, rarely pleasant, reminders that Hong Kong's back in the control of the "Peoples Republic" of China; enjoy!
Fortunecookie 12/5/2012 | 12:32:58 AM
re: The Asian Invasion <1. Infrastructure and population problem
This indeed is a big problem.

<2. General honesty level
Thought this was true before I heard Enron, Worldcom, Qwest, Xerox, (The list can go on and on) scandals. I definitely do not trust most executives in most Corportae Americans, let alone wall street crooks.

<3. VC attitude(Asians are careful investors)
Is this good or bad? Apparently Asia does not suffer post bubble pain as much as the U.S. do.

<4. Business Ethics
Asia has lots of hard and dedicated work bees.

<5. Political/Ethnic problem
I would agree with you if I was in my first 3 years in the U.S.. However, after I come to the US for so long, I start to doubt it. Politics in the U.S. might just be as ugly.

calpole 12/5/2012 | 12:33:07 AM
re: The Asian Invasion Don't worry too much for Asia..In no times soon
it will be able to match USA..

1. Infrastructure and population problem
2. General honesty level
3. VC attitude(Asians are careful investors)
4. Business Ethics
5. Political/Ethnic problem

China in future will be able to overcome it because it is free from religious people..

India will not..because it is full of religious
people...



brahmos 12/5/2012 | 12:33:11 AM
re: The Asian Invasion ties in with the fears expressed about SS:

http://in.news.yahoo.com/03022...

excerpt:
He said there would be "significant effects" from a rapidly aging population on
government finances.

"In particular, it makes our Social Security and Medicare programs unsustainable in the
long run, short of a major increase in immigration rates, a dramatic acceleration in
productivity growth well beyond historical experience, a significant increase in the age
of eligibility for benefits or the use of general revenues to fund benefits," the Fed chief
said.
shadowandlight 12/5/2012 | 12:33:21 AM
re: The Asian Invasion More off topic...

I think it's a little naive to think that the reason for putting someone in orbit is a "society" thing. If you can put a person into a big metal tube, shoot them into space, and bring them back with relative accuracy then guess what? You can also do the same exact thing with any weapon you choose. Going into space isn't altruistic, it's military.

--Shadow
Doom 12/5/2012 | 12:33:24 AM
re: The Asian Invasion All the chinese people I know are brillant.
Hey, they work in high tech as I do.

Not many of them would like to go back. Chinese companies don't pay well and here in North America, the life is somehow better.

I don't believe everything is going to Asia.

Most of the commoditized products will come from Asia but the leading edge products will be created from here, where most of the brains of this world want to live.


melao 12/5/2012 | 12:33:29 AM
re: The Asian Invasion "Manufacturing is already in Asia. Soon all software and hardware development will be done in asia. People from China and Hong kong are very educated and smart and can do everything very efficient. Americans don't work hard as the asians."

Are you an Asian version of HaveyMudd ?
BlueFox 12/5/2012 | 12:33:35 AM
re: The Asian Invasion Americans don't work hard as the asians.

Some do, some don't. However, only "The Stupid People" of any ethnicity spend all their time working. There is more to life than work.
netskeptic 12/5/2012 | 12:33:36 AM
re: The Asian Invasion > Manufacturing is already in Asia. Soon all
> software and hardware development will be done
> in asia. People from China and Hong kong are
> very educated and smart and can do everything
> very efficient.

There is a tiny little problem there - they have a real trouble figuring out what to do. I do not beleive that they will be able to improve in this area as long as Asian economies are export oriented.

I would also suppose that the combination of way overvalued dollar with way undervalued yuan significantly skews the yardstick used to measure effectiveness, so some people are getting wrong ideas about the real meaning of this word.

Thanks,

Netskeptic


dsb 12/5/2012 | 12:33:38 AM
re: The Asian Invasion Yep... Under W, the us is becoming a 3rd world country...
Laser_King 12/5/2012 | 12:33:38 AM
re: The Asian Invasion Are you Asian? Me cannot tell from your name. Me is just stupid American working in video rental store. Can you help me get more smarter so I can work as hard as you.

Give me a break kwokkong. If you and all of the other insecure types that have been posting ethnic/nationalistic trash on this thread cannot grow up... this says something about your real education. Jeez, why am I even wasting my time replying to you.
skeptic 12/5/2012 | 12:33:44 AM
re: The Asian Invasion At this point we better keep increasing the population of workers in this country (which no one wants) or this economy is unsustainable. Have I got an answer... hell no!
-------------

The problem is that there isn't a "we" in this
anymore. The baby-boomers are willing to sell
out everyone who comes after them to protect
their position in the country. Some of them
do think the only "way out" is to import people
from other countries as a sub-class that will
pay their retirement bills. (And of course, at
the same time sell out their own children into
a low-wage future)

The real solution to the problem would have
been running up surpluses in the SS fund while
they were working and to encourage them to
save. But they, being baby-boomers, were never
willing to do either.

So what we have to look forward to is a country
run by a senile elite engaging in push-button
warfare on the rest of the world to make sure
that their checks and their drugs keep coming
every month.

skeptic 12/5/2012 | 12:33:46 AM
re: The Asian Invasion a) the government has already scaled back on its spending.
--------
It scaled back its planned spending, but not
actual spending. Actual spending keeps going
up. And there is a blank-check policy toward
the war in Iraq. When all the bribes to all
the countries are added up, the sum is going
to be staggering.

At the federal level, there is almost no
restraint on spending in any area. The deficit
is simply not an issue anyone is even looking at.



--------
b) if tax cuts are good. how come most of the states are hurting and plan on increasing taxes?
--------------
I'm not in favor of tax cuts, but I think that
increasing taxes in a recession is a disasterous
idea.
--------------
c) the U.S need not curb imports. an increase in
exports is what is needed. be it in manufacturing or technology services.
--------------
The current reality in the US is that both of
these areas are leading candidates for increased
imports rather than exports.


-----------------------
argument is that tax cuts will stimulate the economy. how is that the case when the average Joe does not see a whole lot of benefit from them? not everyone has thousands or millions of stock in Microsoft or GE to make any income off the dividends
------------
I'm not in favor of tax cuts, but I am in favor
of re-doing the tax of dividends. The reason
has nothing to do with stimulating the economy.
The reason for re-doing the taxation of dividends
is to create an alternative to the capital-gains
tax driven system that exists today.

Because of the differences in taxing dividends
and capital gains, companies and individuals have
a huge incentive to manipulate stock prices
upward. The hope is that since dividends are
tied to profitability of companies, encouraging
them will create a more stable and balanced
stock market.

Yes, it will benefit the rich. But so does the
current system. It doesn't matter much to me
if the rich get "richer" from dividends or from
capital gains.

I would like to see any restructuring of dividends
paid for by increases elsewhere in the tax code.



Don't get me wrong though, Bush is proposing
the right thing using the wrong reasons in public.
But then thats how america works these days.






DarkWriting 12/5/2012 | 12:33:47 AM
re: The Asian Invasion At least this one is clear. There will be no social security as we know it. Lock box or no lock box it is unsustainable.

**********************************************

Unfortunately, you are probably right. But if the Federal Government can't provide a pension, what makes anyone think Wall Street can? Wall Street may provide for the big boys but not for the general population. Either system is a huge house of cards. At this point we better keep increasing the population of workers in this country (which no one wants) or this economy is unsustainable. Have I got an answer... hell no!

DW
zettabit 12/5/2012 | 12:33:47 AM
re: The Asian Invasion Laser_King:

Shhhhhhh.....

You're supposed to keep this quiet.

But your suggestion now explains why Huber is creating his vertical empire foucussed on the federal government.


Its all part of a plan to populate moon bases manned with Huber clones interconnected by the world's most advanced photonic networking systems. This further supports the notion that Corvis' technology is so advanced real applications will take another 10 years to catch up!
netwizard 12/5/2012 | 12:33:50 AM
re: The Asian Invasion As far as deficits, if the government were to
cut spending now or raise taxes
------------------------------

a) the government has already scaled back on its spending.

b) if tax cuts are good. how come most of the states are hurting and plan on increasing taxes?

c) the U.S need not curb imports. an increase in
exports is what is needed. be it in manufacturing or technology services.

argument is that tax cuts will stimulate the economy. how is that the case when the average Joe does not see a whole lot of benefit from them? not everyone has thousands or millions of stock in Microsoft or GE to make any income off the dividends


moreover the expenses for an possible war, which could range anywhere from 200-500 billion, have not been accounted for in the budget. where is this moner coming from?


since when have huge deficits come into vogue?
skeptic 12/5/2012 | 12:33:53 AM
re: The Asian Invasion U.S has recorded the highest trade deficit in its history and is pushing the maximum limit of 6.24T in borrowings. just in case nobody's noticed, a petition signed by 400 economists including 10 nobel laurettes indicates that the economic policy/tax cuts the current govt. has in plan will not work.
----------------------------

And just in case nobody is watching, those 400
idiot economists are not offering any workable
alternative or even any suggestions as to
what should be done.

If the US were to seriously curb imports, its
going to have huge impacts in all of the
exporting economies. Given the current global
economic situation, "fixing" the trade deficit
would probably lead to even more economic
contraction globally.

As far as deficits, if the government were to
cut spending now or raise taxes, it might push
the economy into an even deeper recession. Yes,
deficits are bad but modern economics suggests
that trying to balance a budget during a
recession can make things far worse.

And if you think these are just US problems,
think again. If the US gets into trouble, all
of those export-related jobs in Asia and all
of those economies that depend on huge exports
to the US are in an equal amount of trouble.

mdwdm 12/5/2012 | 12:33:53 AM
re: The Asian Invasion Don't be so pessimistic. I am sure that
cisco can do faster than that so that China and India can COPY the greatest telecom reliability standards ever.

------------------------------------------
And all of you thought Milspec was stringent - wait till you see the requirements for field boxes in a lunar environment. Luckily we have 8 years to develop the standard. In the meantime...GO CHINA AND INDIA!
Laser_King 12/5/2012 | 12:33:54 AM
re: The Asian Invasion I think the real reason China and India are going to the moon, and why this is being discussed on this web site, is that they want to corner the lucrative telecom market on the moon. The US lacks innovation and forward thinking to realize the next big build out for fiber is going to be for lunar colonies that will be inhabiting the moon's surface by 2012. And all of you thought Milspec was stringent - wait till you see the requirements for field boxes in a lunar environment. Luckily we have 8 years to develop the standard. In the meantime...GO CHINA AND INDIA!

skeptic 12/5/2012 | 12:33:54 AM
re: The Asian Invasion >...social security funds...

At least this one is clear. There will be no social security as we know it. Lock box or no lock box it is unsustainable.
----------------
This one isn't clear at all. Its going to be
almost impossible to fix the costs in social
security given the composition of the electorate.

As their final "gift" to america, the baby
boomers will loot the economy, raise taxes
to whatever level is necessary to support
their social security and put all non-boomers
in some sort of new program where you pay
more in and get nothing out.

I can almost guarentee that as soon as the bulk
of the boomers qualify for social security, the
"gate" is going to drop and everyone else is
going to find themselves on the outside looking
in.

lightbeer 12/5/2012 | 12:34:01 AM
re: The Asian Invasion Hey off the topic is sometimes very interesting and gives interesting insights to where technology is going. As far as space goes it is in essence another level in societal achievement. What it says is that a society has reached a certain amount of wealth and technilogical prowess to undertake such efforts. It is natural for both India and China to try to demonstrate to the rest of the world that they have reached this point. What is not clear to me is have both reached this level considering that both countries have huge populations that lack the very basics of a modern society.

BTW, the Chinese manned spacecraft which will be used to put a man into space this year is heavily borrowed (carbon copy) from the Russian Soyuz (Source: Aviation Week)
brahmos 12/5/2012 | 12:34:06 AM
re: The Asian Invasion highly off-topic but both india & china plan
unmanned moon probes before 2010. I dont think
they will waste $$ on manned mission. both
have existing launchers to loft such a vehicle.

USA gained some moon rocks from the repeated missions, the russians sent lunokhod and did some studies there cheaply. not sure if the manned thing was worth it. Even in heavy launchers russia has a better record and has launched more satellites, so it cant be said they fell behind due to abandoning the manned moonshot concept.
zli2g 12/5/2012 | 12:34:07 AM
re: The Asian Invasion allidia wrote:
Has China and India landed men on the moon? Apparently that is the only thing Clinton didn't sell to them.
--------------------------------------------
I just read an interview of the chief of China's
Divine Ship manned space program. According to him, China will send a man to space on Divine Ship #5 later this year. China had sent Divine Ship 4 times to earth orbit without a man and the Ship returned safely in the last 3 years. For more, search Divine Ship on any search engine.

Also, according to the chief, China plans to send a ship to land on moon by 2010.

You are right that Clinton did not sell space technology to China. According to the chief, US denied/delayed visa to the chief and his colleagues so that they couldn't attend scientific/trade conferences held in US.
----------

Author: allidia Number: 9
Subject: USA's competitive advantage Date: 2/25/2003 9:41:51 AM


will be when Zettabit moves to China and tries to develop a new technology. Since we now have a courageous President in the USA they won't be able to swap campaign contributions for trade secrets anymore and Zettabit will undertand that the Chinese threat today will have the same result as the Japanese threat in the 80's. It's all about cheap labor. Has China and India landed men on the moon? Apparently that is the only thing Clinton didn't sell to them.
st0 12/5/2012 | 12:34:14 AM
re: The Asian Invasion Laser King,
here are few web site for you:
http://www.itu.int/newsarchive...

http://www.itu.int/newsarchive...

http://www.itu.int/newsarchive...

http://www.standardsasia.net/p...

I believe you have to be in Asia to attend Asia standard committee meetings... or become a member and get invited for meetings.

As for why the MFG moved to Asia, read the ITU press release.

-st
Laser_King 12/5/2012 | 12:34:15 AM
re: The Asian Invasion Jeez, give me a break. It is all about money. Companies go to Asia because costs are less. People come to the US because the schools, facilities, and opportunities for education are better than Asia (It's where the money is!). As for innovation, when was the last time a standards meeting was held in Asia? I go to many and they are NEVER held in Asia. The meetings always take place in Europe and North America. Can we drop all of the ethnic bias and nationalistic pride?
Xiang_Qi 12/5/2012 | 12:34:24 AM
re: The Asian Invasion Regarding DowsLake's technology choices,

EDFA: two years ago, it was unique to add microprocessor based solution in small package; today, there are at least a dozen companies.

OPM/OCM: tunable filter is too slow for future applications.

DGE: too expensive for Metro.

In general, electronics is not differentiatable. You have to have vertical integration of components to compete on today's market price.

By critical mass, I'm talking about people. 15+/- is too small to deliver now; but maybe just right for staying alive until upturn.

//XQ


brahmos 12/5/2012 | 12:34:25 AM
re: The Asian Invasion it will take a few decades for indian & chinese top univs to catchup in size & research quality to american univs. they have a lot of work to do in
retaining bright graduate students, funding, industry linkage. so bleeding-edge discoveries are sure to continue here (assuming mr.ashcroft doesnt just ban all foreign born phd aspirants as a security risk)

but it appears to me, a small number of high quality manpower doing work in USA and rest of the work done abroad is the 'emerging' economic model.

this is sad for the US workforce because not everyone can be in top 5% of their field.

US has a lower level of Govt benefits compared to
Canada or western europe. for sure there will be
reduction in benefits and public services.

maybe the days of people being assured of a good
life for just being citizens of a first-world nation are drawing to a close...
mdwdm 12/5/2012 | 12:34:26 AM
re: The Asian Invasion Please don't get started on this subject.
Rocket science is really about $Billions fireworks and not about innovation. US ranks about 100th place in the world, just ahead of China and India.

-------------------------------------------
Has China and India landed men on the moon? Apparently that is the only thing Clinton didn't sell to them
netskeptic 12/5/2012 | 12:34:26 AM
re: The Asian Invasion >...social security funds...

At least this one is clear. There will be no social security as we know it. Lock box or no lock box it is unsustainable.

Thanks,

Netskeptic
netwizard 12/5/2012 | 12:34:29 AM
re: The Asian Invasion landing men on the moon does not land food on the table.

Manufacturing has been outsourced. IT/Tech services are being outsourced. so is there any industry that cannot be outsourced??? how many people can the defense industry feed??

U.S has recorded the highest trade deficit in its history and is pushing the maximum limit of 6.24T in borrowings. just in case nobody's noticed, a petition signed by 400 economists including 10 nobel laurettes indicates that the economic policy/tax cuts the current govt. has in plan will not work.

social security funds are in deficit to which the tax cuts will only add to. so, i'm guessing folks will have to work till they're 80 before they can reap anything off social security (if anything's left). so what advantage are we talking about here??




allidia 12/5/2012 | 12:34:35 AM
re: The Asian Invasion will be when Zettabit moves to China and tries to develop a new technology. Since we now have a courageous President in the USA they won't be able to swap campaign contributions for trade secrets anymore and Zettabit will undertand that the Chinese threat today will have the same result as the Japanese threat in the 80's. It's all about cheap labor. Has China and India landed men on the moon? Apparently that is the only thing Clinton didn't sell to them.
Half-Inch Stud 12/5/2012 | 12:34:35 AM
re: The Asian Invasion As a Nation that builds-up other Nations. I suggest that our U.S.A. remains ahead of the rest.

Half-Inch Stud
st0 12/5/2012 | 12:34:38 AM
re: The Asian Invasion (1) USA can compete if the corp can put their act together to concentrate on R&D before it is too late. We are still the one with most of Nobel price winners. It need to compete at top level (top invention level due to the strong fundamental technical background).

(2) some of the university got change of face after Telecom bubble. Many staffed earlier, got the two kinds of people:
(a) late bubble stage, few guys do not want to go for industry... (direct grad from the school. never set a foot in industry... ) (b) early layoff of Telcom companies. I think it just like the early 90s downsize of electroinc industry. The university end up with some staff left from the industry.

(3) To say the company move to Asia for the cost advantage, partially true. The other half of the truth is TAX and gov. incentive: If you have a fab in Asia, you can avoid import tax. Besides, gov. give Duty free for the 1st import cap. equipment, Plus low corp tax for few years (some place up to 15 years). To some extreme case, the two year no corp tax, that led rather few companies pulled out just after two years when the tax free incentive dryed out.

(4) As for cost saving, the immediate cost is no saving for MFG company... great saving for low capex company. Your support structure is huge (translation, shipping, duty, many set of books...etc.). Good for large qty. items. For specialty product, it may not be so benefit due to the additional overhead required. Some gov will not let you in to the market UNLESS it was "made local"... It is market driven rather than cost driven to move to Asia.

(5) The situation is a result of corp try to make book "looks" better but hurting the overall competitiveness in the long run (how many CEOs care about long run nowadays?). Japanese economy is under the water, but R&D is still stronger than any country. US should follow the suit before it is too late. (when all the top notch R&D retire kick in next few years, the landscape is going to change completely).

(6) said the exactly the same thing before the ASIC move off the shore... no body really cares... It is Telecoms turn... possibly followed by Bio-medical, etc....etc. Down to the dark age.

-st
Fortunecookie 12/5/2012 | 12:34:43 AM
re: The Asian Invasion You forgot to mention almost every Engineering school (including Math, Applied Math., Physics, Applied Physics, Astronomy, Chemistry, etc) in any U.S. university is filled at least half India and Chinese students.

That's probably not too surprising to most people here. The recent trend is that more and more Chinese and Indians landed faculty positions after they got the education in the U.S.. Go to universities's homepage and you will find it out.

zettabit 12/5/2012 | 12:34:44 AM
re: The Asian Invasion If one looks at the skill set and resources required in the optical space, one sees that:

- some of the best software engineers come from Indian universities. Until recently many were working under H-1 visas in CA. Otherwise that skill set costs $30,000/yr in India. Long-term there is no reason that prevents India from becoming a premier s/w development center.

- optical component assembly & testing requires qualified engineers and technical workers - not PhD's. Chinese universities groom thousands of qualified optical engineers (again, until recently many were getting hired in the USA under H-1s). So there is no reason why optical assembly and testing cannot be done at significantly lower cost in China.

Over time, the same arguments can apply to hardware & system engineering, ASIC design, etc....

It will thus become harder and harder for the USA to use technical expertise as the means of maintaining a competitive advantage. Thus the real competitive advantage for the USA will be innovation - developing new and better ways to do things - combined with the financial system to fund new innovation, and finally a social-cultural-economic environment that attracts the best and brightest to our lands, instead of staying in theirs.

The "glass half full" view says that the unique university, work force, VC, and corporate cultures that enable still exist and thrive in the US and Canada in places like Silicon Valley, San Diego, Boston, Ottawa.

The "glass half empty" view notes that key industry leaders such as Vinod Khosla, Jayshree Ullal, the ASIC team at Cerent, and many others are not American, and are all here based on the PAST opportunities. In the future, why couldn't innovation leadership also come from Asia?

Compounding the threat is the USA's new-found xenophobia about anything foreign, combined with its serious image problem in much of the world. Are the world's best & brightest still seeing AMerica as the place to be?

If George Bush is meant to be the shining example of what the American educational system can produce, I shudder to think of what the future brings.
OptixCal 12/5/2012 | 12:34:46 AM
re: The Asian Invasion I'm interested in why you believe DowsLake doesn't seem ot have the cutting edge technology? The products on their site SEEM to be on the cutting edge...at least to me. As for the critical mass comment...I'm not sure ANYONE in this current telecom winter has any critical mass. Just a comment from an interested on-looker.
B2Itried 12/5/2012 | 12:34:48 AM
re: The Asian Invasion Hey they do it for clothes manufacturing why not optics.....

Hope something small like a war in these countries does't affect your ol' mighty stock exchange losses (oh you didnt think of the risk of war in these hick towns).

Hope the shareholders get there buck because after the sweatshops (and poorer quality products) what have you left... nothing next thing you will find it at your local electonics shop (wait for the "knock offs" just like bay blades).

B2
Xiang_Qi 12/5/2012 | 12:34:49 AM
re: The Asian Invasion From what I see, it is not an Asian Invasion but an Asian Assimilation. Asia has half the world's population, has the fastest growing economies, turns out more optics engineers than anywhere else in the world, and is redefining communications services and how they are used. LightReading: where is your Chinese language addition?

That said, innovation and entrepreneurship can only happen in open societies. China and Vietnam - both communist in policy - in practice have the most dynamic market economies in the world. As NAM/EUR fasten on increasingly restrictive measures in light of post 9/11, Asia might even spur on a renaissance of the Tang or Ming eras.

As far as DowsLake goes, they don't have the critical mass for any survivor to trust them with volume purchases and the technology does not seem to be cutting edge. Their best bet is to hunker down, ride out the depression, and come out with something new in 2004.

skeptic 12/5/2012 | 12:34:51 AM
re: The Asian Invasion
But has it really been worth it for component vendors to make the move East? So far, it looks as if the jury's out.
-------------------
The component vendors don't really have a choice.
They have to move production to the lowest cost
places or they will be wiped out.

Its not typically going to improve their
financial situation in the long run. In fact,
the constant downward pressure on prices is
destroying the fundementals of the business.
The volumes on many of these things are not
sensitive to price.

The odd thing is that the flight to china/asia
is creating a bubble of sorts because its allowing
the companies to avoid a necessary
and painful downsizing of the component space at
least for a while.
There are way too many people in the space for
the amount of business thats available. If you
move the business to asia, it doesn't change
that.
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