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Michelle
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Michelle,
User Rank: Light Sabre
8/26/2017 | 8:34:34 PM
Re: Also....
I agree. It's crazy to see how the profession evolved and what the leaders did as it grew (unfortunate they chose the path the did). We may finally move away from those bad choices.
kq4ym
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kq4ym,
User Rank: Light Sabre
8/26/2017 | 12:20:24 PM
Re: Also....
A compelling part of the explanation of what's gone on for decades might be in the statement about the early women specialists in programming as noted that, "programming was considered repetitive, unglamorous "women's work", like typing and punching cards, until it turned out to be a lucrative and prestigious field." The attitudes of management certainly can lead to weird practices for years and years after. Note the 'man' in management, noting even the words we use can lead us to sometimes move along the wrong road.
Ariella
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Ariella,
User Rank: Light Sabre
8/15/2017 | 3:22:39 PM
Re: Also....
@Michelle, I'm sure all of us here value writing. However, in terms of market place value -- what the jobs are paying -- unfortunately, writing falls into the soft skills area that get you $30K a year upon earning your BA. In contrast, a BA in engineering can earn you $50K or more even for someone who can hardly write a sentence.
Ariella
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Ariella,
User Rank: Light Sabre
8/15/2017 | 3:20:48 PM
Re: Also....
@Mitch It's OK, she probably never read this: https://debuk.wordpress.com/2015/05/16/call-me-woman/

 
Michelle
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Michelle,
User Rank: Light Sabre
8/15/2017 | 3:13:36 PM
Re: Also....
@Ariella There's so much ado about STEM, I wonder if kids are learning to write anymore. College students are terrible at writing (at least in my recent experience). There are few who are able to write well, but the rest really struggle to make sense. Have you noticed this? I think it's great to encourage STEM, but everyone needs to write well.
Mitch Wagner
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Mitch Wagner,
User Rank: Lightning
8/15/2017 | 2:43:28 PM
Re: Also....
The author of the original article, a woman in tech, used the word "lady" -- actually "ladysplaining." I was quoting her directly. 
Ariella
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Ariella,
User Rank: Light Sabre
8/15/2017 | 9:08:33 AM
Re: Also....
@Mitch No one is saying men are victims. His complaint was that he was not allowed to express any point of view that was not the one adopted by the company. And then the company essentially proved him right by firing him. That's why Google played this very badly. If you want to convince someone he's wrong, you don't achieveit by slapping him down for expressing his view. What you do achieve (and that is the tactic of totalitarian regimees) is striking fear in the hearts of others who may have liked to speak up themselves but now see the consequences. Again, that doesn't change their minds; it merely silences them in public.

BTW I taught for several years at NJIT, which is a very respectable state university for engineering. It was known to have more men than women students at the time. I just looked up the stats and found a report that still says it's 75% male.  Here are the numbers from https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/new-jersey-institute-of-technology/student-life/diversity/

Male-to-Female Ratio Below Average


If you're seeking a institution with an equal number of male and female students, this may not be the choice for you.

At New Jersey Institute of Technology, the male to female student ratio is below the national average of about 40:60 with a student body that is predominantly male.

This institution is ranked at #2,271 in male to female diversity nationwide. The undergraduate population is comprised of 5,780 males and 1,770 females.
NJIT Gender Diversity Rank (2,271 out of 1,722)

 

I have to admit that I am somewhat surprised.  I had thought that the programs to encourage women in the field were reflected in college attendance.  You have to realize that if the women graduating energineering schools make up only 25% then a reflection of that in the workforce would also show only 25% are women, not the half that they make up in the general population. 

 So is the school discriminating against female students? Perhaps. Perhaps they aren't enrolling because they weren't encouraged to do so by their high school teachers or even their parents. Or perhaps, every girl decides for herself what she wants to pursue, and it just happens that most choose something other than engineering and architecture. That's fine, too. As someone pointed out, no one seems to ever notice (though I do!) that women have even less representation in other fields like plumbing (check out Cluny Brown), car mechanics, and sanitation. 

 
Ariella
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Ariella,
User Rank: Light Sabre
8/15/2017 | 8:59:24 AM
Re: Also....
@michelle Alas, we have no mathematical inclination here whatsoever! I say "alas" because STEM jobs tend to pay about twice as much for entry level positions as the soft skill jobs do. Now that is not to say that I don't believe females are at all inclined in that direction, and as I've mentioned there are STEM careers in which there is a closer ratio or even more women than ment. I also have a niece who loves math and engineering and plans to make her career there, though I'm not sure which part of engineering she wishes to specialize in.

 

 
Michelle
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Michelle,
User Rank: Light Sabre
8/14/2017 | 11:06:56 PM
Re: Also....
@Ariella I suspect she wouldn't have lasted very long with that kind of research!

I tried to steer my daughter toward STEM, but she really only likes the MATH part. My son really enjoys STEM studies and has since elementary school (he'll start college soon).
Mitch Wagner
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Mitch Wagner,
User Rank: Lightning
8/14/2017 | 9:08:30 PM
Re: Also....
Ariella, in a field that's dominated by men, it's truly Orwellian to say that the men who defend that order are the persecuted ones. 

As far as I can see, James Damore has contributed nothing to the world of technology other than going to Harvard and getting hired at Google. Whereas Diane Greene, one of the women he patronizes, reinvented the industry at VMware and is leading a business unit taking Google into the next century. 

But Damore is now an alt-right star -- on YouTub, another YouTube business unit run by a woman.
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