x
Page 1 / 3   >   >>
OneMoreByte 12/5/2012 | 3:15:38 PM
re: Will New England Ever Have a Cisco? Remember when Cisco and Wellfleet were on par with one another? And then Wellfleet and Synoptics merged to become Bay Networks, which was the beginning of the end for both.
firstmile 12/5/2012 | 3:15:37 PM
re: Will New England Ever Have a Cisco? I only wish I was there to here and see the interplay. Also good to see a young rock star like Soni willing to lay it on the line in a public forum!
...first
lopetus 12/5/2012 | 3:15:34 PM
re: Will New England Ever Have a Cisco? When was Wellfleet on par with Cisco, I must have missed it
deanfro 12/5/2012 | 3:15:33 PM
re: Will New England Ever Have a Cisco? They were on par, or better when Cisco's best piece of HW was the AGS+. When Cisco HW caught up with their SW times changed dramatically.
fiber_r_us 12/5/2012 | 3:15:27 PM
re: Will New England Ever Have a Cisco? Good history lesson of Wellfleet... But, also don't forget, Wellfleet's user interface sucked. They needed a real CLI in a bad way. Their customers (me included) begged them for this and were summarily ignored. Without a decent CLI there was no easy way to script actions on large numbers of routers.

I agree that the Wellfleet platform had superior hardware compared to the Cisco 7000 series. They just needed better software, and things might have turned out differently.
gbennett 12/5/2012 | 3:15:27 PM
re: Will New England Ever Have a Cisco? Hi lopetus,
You are correct. Wellfleet was #2 to Cisco in the router market, when routers were responsible for the majority of both company's revenue. Wellfleet was steadily gaining ground on Cisco in terms of router market share.

However, at the point that Wellfleet and Synoptics merged (October 1993), Bay Networks' revenue was actually slightly more than Cisco's.

Needless to say within a year that situation was "normalised", with Cisco growing like a weed and Bay Networks losing 15% of router market share.

As a matter of personal opinion, I always felt the Wellfleet hardware was superior to Cisco (even the Cisco 7000). And the Wellfleet OSPF (the second iteration that came out in V.7 code) was much better than Cisco's contemporary OSPF. But we all know that having the better product doesn't win the deal. Cisco was focused (at that time) on selling routers at >60% margins. Wellfleet sales guys were too busy selling obsolete Synoptics 3000 hubs at very low margins because sales management had forgotten to give them separate quotas for routers and hubs.

The Bay Networks fiasco is a classic MBA case study on how to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Cheers,
Geoff
ozip 12/5/2012 | 3:15:20 PM
re: Will New England Ever Have a Cisco? Fiber,

While it is true that Wellfleet had a cryptic console interface, it did have a configuration/management system that ran on another device that was graphical (in those days). Quite suprisingly, we didnt really ignore the critisism and ran many surveys of our customers regarding the UI issue. Every time, the surveys incidicated that the customers prefered the UI (site manager). I dont really think that the UI had anything to do with the problems that Wellfleet had but it was certainly a hotly discussed topic.

Lets face it, whats so great about the Cisco UI other than lots have people have been forced to learn it.

OZIP
gbennett 12/5/2012 | 3:15:20 PM
re: Will New England Ever Have a Cisco? You both have made good points on the UI issue.

Some people like GUIs, but a lot of people - carriers in particular - prefer a CLI because they can create scripts.

I must admit I always found Cisco's CLI very clunky, and I'm sure the company must wish it could start again with a UI that is designed for the purpose. Given that CLI has not only survived for 20 years, but has been widely copied, I guess they must be doing something right :-)

Cheers,
Geoff
turing 12/5/2012 | 3:15:18 PM
re: Will New England Ever Have a Cisco? Quite suprisingly, we didnt really ignore the critisism and ran many surveys of our customers regarding the UI issue. Every time, the surveys incidicated that the customers prefered the UI (site manager).

That's a classic self-fulfilling prophecy, don't you think? If you ask your customers, then by definition it's already the set of people who liked the UI, or didn't not-like it enough to buy something different.

I agree with your later point that its doubtful the UI had any major influence on Wellfleet's problems, but I seem to remember everyone complaining about the UI. It was not good, plain an simple. It was annoying to configure and troubleshoot in the lab, and cisco's was easier. But it wasn't why wellfleet lost in the end.
rjmcmahon 12/5/2012 | 3:15:18 PM
re: Will New England Ever Have a Cisco? My guess is a case study would focus on business differences such as maybe a better model for sales or some sort of strategic position in distribution rather than geeky things like UI. This UI discussion may be a reflection of the members who post on these boards rather than a objective analysis of history. Though I don't really know and am only expressing an outsider's opinion.
Page 1 / 3   >   >>
HOME
Sign In
SEARCH
CLOSE
MORE
CLOSE