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opto 12/4/2012 | 7:50:35 PM
re: Wall Street Aghast at Tragedy John - Thanks for distancing yourself for such clear prejudice. "Palestinians" does not equal "Arafat". Period.

rtfm - I agree - The quotes from Falwell are full of hate, towards Americans no less, that do not believe as he does. He is no better than bin Laden.

Actually, Arafat's inability to control terrorism helps us in establishing a democracy in the New Palestine. He is just too unsavory a character to lead such a development, thus democracy is that much more important and justifiable.


I have just had a wonderful conversation with a friend and Jew. He pointed out that the West Bank is not a good area to provide to the Palestinians, for Jewish religious reasons. OK. Maybe that is not the best location for the New Palestine. So where should it be? What about the Gaza Strip - extend that to a large enough area to be reasonable. Then relocate all Palestinians. The US would help financially, if it meant we all might live in Peace.

I don't pretend to know all solutions - I just cannot accept the idea that there is no solution. Perhaps the Israelis have become convinced that it is their lot in life on this planet to live in constant turmoil and fighting. Based on history, that is justified. But if you cannot imagine peace, if you cannot believe it is there to be found, you absolutely will not find it. It is the duty of Americans to facilitate that peace, because we believe it IS there. We have the advantage of a more objective viewpoint, and the influence no other nation in the world has with Israel. I say WE, as Americans, take the next step towards peace. Because we can.
rtfm 12/4/2012 | 7:50:35 PM
re: Wall Street Aghast at Tragedy John8:12 wrote:
...BTW, actually I agree with Jerry Falwell a whole lot more than I don't (although I haven't heard or read any comments on this mess)
**********

I don't think Mr. Falwell represents the overall view of most Americans, though he says a few things that appeal to many people. But I think him to be ignorant, hateful, and narrow-minded. He said that these acts came about because of "gays, lesbians, ACLU, secularists" who have taken god out of our schools, government and country, and made god angry and weakened the country.

Yeah, right.

rtfm
Confucius 12/4/2012 | 7:50:35 PM
re: Wall Street Aghast at Tragedy The quotes from Falwell are full of hate, towards Americans no less, that do not believe as he does. He is no better than bin Laden.

Nonsense. How many people's deaths can be attributed to Falwell? Hmmm?

Words and deeds are very different. While there may be things that Jerry Falwell says that you and I may not agree with, the fact of the matter is that he doesn't go around murdering people with whom he disagrees. Saying that he is the moral equivalent of Osama bin Laden makes you as intolerant as Falwell. Thus, by your twisted logic you are the moral equivalent of bin Laden as well (transitive property; A = B, B = C then A = C). I don't think so. there's a vast chasm between sayers and doers, and even at Falwell's spuming worst, he doesn't advocate the murder of anyone.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you really are able to ascertain the difference in moral degree between those that occasionally say intolerant and even hateful things about others and those that bring about the deaths of thousands of innocent people. Tell me that you just got caught up in your own rhetoric.
holen1 12/4/2012 | 7:50:34 PM
re: Wall Street Aghast at Tragedy Very well put, Confucius. I will also give the benefit of the doubt with the comment comparing Falwell to bin Laden. There is no comparison to his actions or beliefs other than Adolf Hitler (Hitler believed in an Aryan society, bin Laden believes in a radical religious society). Although I have a similar faith to Falwell's, I do not come close to practicing his thoughts and feel the comments he has published are outrageous - especially given the current circumstances. Falwell condemns those people, but he doesn't want to exterminate them.
opto 12/4/2012 | 7:50:34 PM
re: Wall Street Aghast at Tragedy
People have died at abortion clinics at the hands of deranged people. And what influence would you suggest Falwell has had on those doing the attacks?
opto 12/4/2012 | 7:50:33 PM
re: Wall Street Aghast at Tragedy I think we are all interested. Can you please explain what you are saying?
opto 12/4/2012 | 7:50:33 PM
re: Wall Street Aghast at Tragedy There are only two types of actions in this world - those that promote love, compassion, and understanding among people, and those that promote hate. When times are tough, as now, we all need to work harder to adopt the former. Hate breeds more hate, in increasing quantities. Minor hate is no better than major hate, for it all has the same (il)logical endpoint.

And please do not introduce faith into this - Falwell could not be further from the teachings of the Jesus whom he professes to follow. Jesus taught love. Jesus never accepted or acknowledged hate, in any form, for any reason.

I wish I could remember the origin of this quote, but I heard it from a tape by Ram Dass:


"Do what you want with another man, but never take him out of your heart"

holen1 12/4/2012 | 7:50:33 PM
re: Wall Street Aghast at Tragedy Opto - come on. I realize you have strong beliefs, but in NO way can you compare Falwell to bin Laden.

1. Has Falwell ever preached death to Pro-Life supporters?
2. Do you honestly believe Falwell has planned, financed, or encouraged in any way, the deaths of innocent people to promote his cause of anti-abortion?
3. or better yet, as Falwell been directly linked to any of the people who are responsible for bombing abortion clinics?

If Falwell was connected to these tragedies in any stretch of the imagination, it would have been uncovered by now. Falwell may be to the far right with his opinions on religion, but you can't convince me he is responsible for those crazed people nor does he condone the behavior.

See this link for clarification of his recent comments:

http://www.demossnewspond.com/...
77thlightguy 12/4/2012 | 7:50:31 PM
re: Wall Street Aghast at Tragedy LightWatchman: Sorry, I only have time to catch up once a day. My comments to you probably seem dated, and I did use you to make a point. I hope you understand my motives are genuine.

All: Actually, I would very much like to ask if there is someone out there with strongly different views? Is there anyone out there that believes at least some of what happened was justified? Perhaps (just) an overseas opinion?

Can we try to talk? Shout or whisper, profane or polite, I will listen.

77
77thlightguy 12/4/2012 | 7:50:31 PM
re: Wall Street Aghast at Tragedy LightWatchman: Either way, it results in less communication, based on the simple fact that you do not agree with what they said. One persons shock and horror is another persons revealing truth and candor.

One viewpoint is that to have effective dialog, it has to be "civil". Another is that when deep human emotions are involved, it takes "shouting". Some people are sensitive, if you shout, they resent it and do not listen. Other people are quiet; you have to "shout" to get them to talk. I am not sure either one is more "correct". Filters in, filters out. The issue is communication.

Take for example the book: Rape of Nanking. It is an account of the horrors that Japanese troops inflicted on the inhabitants of the city and region around Nanking China during WWII. The account is shocking enough, but the pictures are absolutely mind numbing. Are they gratutitous shock journalism, or simply actual proof of what happened? Is the book itself ethnic smearing or candid history, long suppressed?

I think it is important to be less concerned with how people say what they say, and do more listening to what they say. I am willing to tolerate getting upset for the purpose of communication. But that is my "thing"...others consider it more important to avoid "feeling bad".

I think bin Lauden is just the focus for a lot of anger in the Islamic world. We need to get them, the individuals making up the Islamic world, to talk to us. Especially the ones that hate us so much they are ready to commit suicide to kill us. Do you think they, the ones already convinced we are evil, even want to dialog with us? I don't. They want to shout rhetoric and not listen to us. We have to tolerate that, and listen, or there will be no dialog. We will be cut off by them.

So far, the only (probable) Islamic voice on this site has been TurkishGuy (sp?). One guy had him talking, rudely and crudely, but talking. It was a start. Now there is no East/West communication at all. Cut off. We are left debating among ourselves. I think that is much less effective than talking to the "other side".

77
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