W Does Cisco

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Mark Seery 12/5/2012 | 3:56:01 AM

re: W Does Cisco RJ,

just to complete the thoughts from before.....what I was trying to get at in the previous post was some of the potential causes and ask the question, given that, can the situation be reversed.

firstly, I have not seen anything which gives me confidence that people know what level would be disasterous. Go back six years ago, and people might have said 4% was too high, and now of course it is above that, and accelerating. Similarly, at one time, $70 a barrel for oil would have been considered disasterous, and yet the economy sustains it (though of course this is one of the contributors to the deficit - perhaps not the biggest though). so why mention this, because of increasing productivity and general health of the U.S. economy (contributing to a stronger dollar), it is probable from my perspective that economists are not entirely sure of all the dynamics within the context of an encomony that is doing well; and just how bad is the breaking point. It is interesting to note that one of the cited causes of the deficit was the rapid increase in productivity and the effects of that; so to what extent is the deficit a book-keeping problem as opposed to a real problem?

Clearly there is alarm/concern at the acceleration of the deficit (with the obvious observation that there will come a limit to what % of GDP it can be); but the economy may be more resilient than we ever thought (and then there is that other question "would you rather live in a country where capital is flowing in to [to fund the deficit] or one where capital is flowing out of?".

So a) I would share a general concern b) I think the boom was of an extraordinary level and we still are working through impacts and c) there are suggested remedies for reversing the deficit, even if there is an ever growing list of explanations and a variety of opinions about where to attack the problem first.

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atmforever 12/5/2012 | 3:56:00 AM

re: W Does Cisco Glad to see that most on this thread agree the need for talented engineers wherever they came from originally. This was one factor that helped US achieve great success in technology era. Unfortunately US immigration system is seriously flawed and has many problems, if this continues we might lose the advantage over time. Some of the previous posts correctly highlighted the need to reform GÇ£green cardGÇ¥ process. H1B is a temp visa (max six years) during which employers have to file a green card application. Companies use this aspect very effectively to exploit these employees (even big companies have HR policies to make them wait for years to start process and once the process is started they typically/officially not be given any significant promotions/raises). Added to this, US has a set number of green cards to be given to skilled+unskilled+family categories with lot of rules on how they are allocated in each skill category. These rules are not that favorable to skilled engineers. Above all, the application processing is so inefficient, itGÇÖs shocking. During boom years congress made a rule to recapture some unused green cards and distributed them to the skilled categories. This eased the pain and many got their green cards in relatively short period (around 3-4 years) but it got worse since and according to present conditions it will take 7-10 years (especially if you are from some countries). These issues faced by the GÇ£legalGÇ¥ immigrants who are skilled (90% with at least a bachelorGÇÖs degree) and who are paying income, social security, medicare and other taxes never get any attention in media or congress regulations. The mainsteam media never talks about green card issues GÇô they always talk about h1b numbers though giving the impression that they are same. Companies and their CEOGÇÖs actively lobby for higher H1B numbers and for legalizing undocumented workers; but they never ever talk about green cards or increasing the green cards for skilled workers. Why even GÇ£former h1b workersGÇ¥ who got their green cards and went on to become influential, never care about this issue later. ItGÇÖs high time something needs to be done so US maintain competitive advantage. Senate/congress is debating comprehensive immigration reform bill which has many good clauses. But this seems to be dead though.

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whyiswhy 12/5/2012 | 3:55:57 AM

re: W Does Cisco Nixon and Gold standard. Check the history.

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whyiswhy 12/5/2012 | 3:55:57 AM

re: W Does Cisco "We should modify the law and what Bill Gates proposed will be a good start."

Bill Gates wants cheap labor. He is not after helping his fellow Americans one bit, except to free him of her money.

-Why

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dwdm2 12/5/2012 | 3:55:56 AM

re: W Does Cisco Well I am not a student of economics... But Nixon and Gold standard had to do mainly with the price control and unemployment. Not get rid of the IOUs. Elsewhere it says that

"The United StatesGÇÖ abandonment of gold as the foundation of its monetary system came in two steps. In 1933, President Franklin Roosevelt ended AmericansGÇÖ right to surrender paper dollars for gold and even to own gold bullion. Step two came in 1971 when President Richard Nixon "closed the gold window" and denied foreign governments the right to turn in paper dollars for gold."
Ref: http://www.lewrockwell.com/ori...

Would be interesting to know if there is a real basis of denying the IUOs...

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whyiswhy 12/5/2012 | 3:55:55 AM

re: W Does Cisco Uhmmm...a paper Dollar is an IOU. All paper money is an IOU. The IOU has been denied.

-Why

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qaman1 12/5/2012 | 3:55:54 AM

re: W Does Cisco It breaks my heart seeing and hearing about people who worked long hours , paid taxes helping us to build this powerfull tool called Internet (an American idea I fully agree) and in the end of the day after years spent in US , paying taxes (quite high because all of them were qualifyed engineers) not giving them a fair chance to stay here and join the american dream for which they worked so hard. Afterall we invited them here. We should modify the law and what Bill Gates proposed will be a good start.
***********************************************

Ron,
I have a couple of questions if you wouldnt mind. First, since you stated that your H1Bs and regular employees are paid the same, one might be of the opinion that the dept you manage is rather junior. Given this,

Did it break your heart to lay off the qualified engineers that provided the foundation that your H1Bs worked on because you had to "lower your costs to make your bonus" (not stated by you. implied by others and a fact of the valley where CEOs like Carly desimated engineering talent to buy her private aircraft and was booted out afterwards... and done at the time as a "good business decision")?

Next, have you made such good business decisions in your management career or are you quite about them to keep your next Starbucks?

Do you realize that those "older" engineers have children that are now told to not go into engineering because of "good business decsions" and "broken hearts" of management regarding so many tradic things in life?

Im not saying keep older engineers becasue they are older but when you loose talent, you loose talent...right? or is that only for the H1b where there is a loss of talent?

Does anyone remember that there is a tax incentive for those companies that "invest or do business overseas" that it greatly lowers the tax burden on the corporation. But thats not a reason to get rid of overpriced older talent and ship jobs overseas or just hire H1Bs is it? Its like the oil prices now, and hey, they are getting wind fall profits, right??? But the administration is doing good things for the coountry, right? Look at the current approval ratings of "W"...ok ron202... Say it again that it breaks your heart....just like "mission accomplished"...and then, na, you and your company can last, right....just like "W"...right...

Point, two years ago it was a "mandate" for a GOP win.... and it breaks your heart ron202 that we loose such talent right? and put citizens of the US on low paying service jobs but that doesnt break your heart what so ever, does it....cause an H1B cant afford the "American Dream"...true?

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CoolLightGeek 12/5/2012 | 3:55:54 AM

re: W Does Cisco Alot of the moral pleadings on this message board remind me of something I read...

1) The honor of loving the motherland ; the shame of endangering the motherland
2) The honor of serving the people; the shame of turning away from the people
3) The honor of upholding science; the shame of ignorance and illiteracy
4) The honor of industrious labor; the shame of indolence
5) The honor of togetherness and cooperation; the shame of profiting at the expense of others
6) The honor of honesty and keeping one's word; the shame of abandoning morality for profit
7) The honor of discipline and obedience; the shame of lawlessness and disorder
8) The honor of striving arduously; the shame of wallowing in luxury

One country says they want to hold their political leaders to this standard: should we apply it in the US ?

CLG

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qaman1 12/5/2012 | 3:55:53 AM

re: W Does Cisco Amen, CLG, Amen

May I add:

"One country says they want to hold their political [and business leaders] leaders to this standard: should we apply it in the US ?"

Or does Gates "innovate" for "his customers" (see EU), does Ken Lay, and Tyco and MCI and a few others slip peoples minds???? are mergers/consolidations/executive ego boosts for multi-millon stock options for merging and putting 1000s of engineers out of work so ordinary that we are "THAT" calloused????

and are north of $1,100/second in oil profits rational while global warming has been eluted to being the cause of the Katrina and "friends"...with more to come so it is said...and the movement is "open more oil reserves and we will lower prices"...say no and we will gouge you...again/still

Does anyone remember when Silicon Valley had respect and innovation instead of being "SillyCon" valley? or has that "American Dream" disappeared with the engineers that had kids in highschool when the dot com bust hit and scrape to get by... while a service industry flourishes....

you talk of no one in this country has a clue about innovation and business.... has every person forgotten two "stupid AMERICAN engineers" who had a dream and created some small company that was "THE" world leader in technical equipment by the name of (Bill) Hewitt/(David) Packard... or am I so out of date that my dumb AMERICAN pride of having a dumb "pocket protector" aint nothin anymore????

(oh ya, I forgot to mention, I dont use hair dye and I do have grey that shows and Im still working and PROUD of being a geek!)

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ron202 12/5/2012 | 3:55:52 AM

re: W Does Cisco Sorry Gaman1. Didn't mean to offend anybody.
No , the people I am aware with H1 visa have years of experience , at least 4 to 5 in US and a few years in their country (why somebody will hire a fresh from school with a H1 visa is beyond me ) so they are engineers with ~10+ years experience.

My personal feelings: well as somebody pointed me in the right direction seems that H1 was created around 1990 and hundreds of thousands of engineers came in with H1. Probably most of them were part of the bodies funneling the Interent bubble (madness) when companies were created overnight ,went IPO with slideware only , aquisitions were done for obscene amounts of money for almost no products (just a box slapped together with a few cards and a few buggy lines of code). Some people became rich and a lot of people were hurt , including the H1 people.

Was this good or bad? History will judge - we have the Internet with the good and the bad. I personally I'll give up a part of the Internet 'benefits' (stealing music and movies , porno , myspace.com , hate , on line sexual predators etc)and not have hundred of thousands of people hurt. But people love 'progress' (and gambling ) so I guess I am in minority.
Internet bubble was an american creation.

I am looking including now to companies like Google - great technology , insane (in my opinion ) stock price. They are hiring now but I wonder what will happen if the stock will come down from 400 to 200? (some perceived competition , softness in the market etc) Will be people fired from Google ? How many good engineers will loose their jobs?.

In any event I'll still support my kids if they want to become engineers. It is a great job (if is not manipulated by people with a lot of MBA and a little of engineering).

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