re: W Does Cisco"I think I see your point... However, it is Geek like Bill Gates, Steve Jobs and others who did exactly what you are objecting to."
I was not trying to object to anything...I was trying to describe how the world economy values things today. Gates and Jobs still have alot of American engineers working for them. Unlike typical engineers, they had enough social skills/business contacts blended with their understanding of technology (or at least enough sense to listen the right engineers) to create vision and execute on it.
"Granted, lot of us now believe that there is no more chance for another Microsoft or Intel, so why try?"
How old is the Ipod/Itunes? How old is Google? If one thinks its all been invented and no room for new exciting engineering opportunities, then one probably doesn't deserve growing compensation with growing responsibility.
Some people with "some special skill" lucked into it. But some actually had the initiative to acquire it before the massive wave of generalist engineers behind them. Twenty years ago, large companies would invest alot in retraining their engineering workforce to the latest most valuable skill sets. Today, you are on your own: their real training investment is getting low cost engineering centers to be almost as effective as you.
What makes an American engineers skill set more valuable than an engineer in a low-cost region? Your task is to make sure you know the answer and can continue to convince your current and future employers and business partners of it.
re: W Does CiscoYou guys really crack me up! Your busy trying to find fault with H1B's and outsourcing while the entire industry gets taken out from under you. Talk about being asleep at the wheel!
Opto and semiconductors are Asian industries today, at least 80% of the growth opportunities are based in Asia, look at the top growth companies,like Mediatek or Vimicro even Sunplus is doing well.
But keep up the good work because while your complaining Asia is gaining.
re: W Does CiscoI don't think it makes much sense to compare Engineering with marketing/sales. Engineering is a primary profession like law/medicine/accounting/business.
Most of the good marketing/sales people I have met in this industry have a primary profession that they practiced before they got into marketing or sales and it is more likely to be some form of engineering than anything else.
But I do agree with the statement that "if you are still cutting code at age 50, then you had better be a pretty good code-cutter."
re: W Does Cisco"Your busy trying to find fault with H1B's and outsourcing while the entire industry gets taken out from under you."
There's a cause and effect at work here.
What are the advantage of American engineers? The fact that they are American. There is a strong economic advantage to a self-centered guild mentality. England once had a major economic advantage at the start of the industrial revolution because it had cotton technology that no one else had. When it was sectretly brought to the US, the US was able to surpass England.
The problem with H-1B workers (as opposed to green card workers) is that they are brought into the best engineering environments in the US(because they are low cost), but then they HAVE to go back to their home countries--taking with them the best practices of the US.
American managers' and business leaders' short term greed is leading them to give away our technology.
re: W Does Ciscorecession2002 brings up some good points. When I was at EE Times, we wrote about this topic quite a bit and received letters from engineers who questioned the state of their profession.
History is full of respectable professions that, through the march of time, stopped being good careers. Most of those are in the blue-collar sphere, but maybe electrical engineering, at least in the U.S., is starting to join them --?
I'd love to hear pragmatic suggestions for bolstering the status of engineers. (Real-world ones, please .... yes, it would help to alter the entire economic structure so that public companies aren't so obsessed with short-term gain, but that's not gonna happen any time soon...)
Or, do you think U.S. engineers deserve the lot they've got?
re: W Does CiscoWell, I guess it's about time to go to church and pray I can afford to eat. I already know I ain't gonna be able to drive anywhere. Didn't the same sort of thing (economic debacle) happen a few years back in the first Crusade?
So the message from Vinhod is American workers are not competitive. Reality is the Dollar is not competitive. Thanks to Nixon. He has to be laughing in his grave.
re: W Does CiscoOf course, engineers do not deserve it! The major difference between blue colour jobs and engineering jobs is the difference in education. And it is not a mute point, but the crux of the matter! How does anyone expects kids to go into engineering under these circumstances? You frame the question in a wrong way. It is government's job to allow a healthy business environment and for a secure country. Outsourcing and H1Bs threaten both.
re: W Does Cisco"I don't even think the H1 visa aspect influences this stuff all that much - in fact, as long as visas are being granted, it's a good sign - it means the US economy still dominates a market segment and can not supply all of the talent required to further grow the business. It's when both home-grown and imported EEs are competing for capuccino brewing jobs to make a living that we truly have an H1 visa problem in the industry. The day may yet come."
Dude, wake up and smell the capuccino.
Somehow you are so naive as to believe the quota of H1B's granted are based on some sort of national shortage. The only reason H1B's are here is to drive your salary down.
Otherwise, the answer would be engineering salaries would be very high, and we would be growing our own and graduating them.
True supply and demand.
And because you don't understand that fundamental economic / political problem, you deserve to earn less.
re: W Does CiscoSad story about engineering is the IEEE not at all like the AMA or ABA. AMA, ABA have done an excellent job defending their memberships from foreign competition. Same with farmers.
I was not trying to object to anything...I was trying to describe how the world economy values things today. Gates and Jobs still have alot of American engineers working for them. Unlike typical engineers, they had enough social skills/business contacts blended with their understanding of technology (or at least enough sense to listen the right engineers) to create vision and execute on it.
"Granted, lot of us now believe that there is no more chance for another Microsoft or Intel, so why try?"
How old is the Ipod/Itunes? How old is Google?
If one thinks its all been invented and no room for new exciting engineering opportunities, then one probably doesn't deserve growing compensation with growing responsibility.
Some people with "some special skill" lucked into it. But some actually had the initiative to acquire it before the massive wave of generalist engineers behind them. Twenty years ago, large companies would invest alot in retraining their engineering workforce to the latest most valuable skill sets. Today, you are on your own: their real training investment is getting low cost engineering centers to be almost as effective as you.
What makes an American engineers skill set more valuable than an engineer in a low-cost region? Your task is to make sure you know the answer and can continue to convince your current and future employers and business partners of it.