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LightGaugeGuitarString 12/5/2012 | 12:56:28 AM
re: Top Ten Service Providers to Watch USA said:
"I think you have your nomenclature mixed up. Cellular networks are called 2nd generation (2G) and third generation (3G). 2.5G is a network that has advanced functions and is somewhere between 2G and 3G. The 2.5G in the article isn't talking about 2.5 Gbps data rates."

-----------------------------------------
Third paragraph of No. 10:
"In each city, at least five or six POPs are connected together via a mesh fiber network, running at 2.5 Gbit/s; Milan has 15 POPs"

LGGS
willywilson 12/5/2012 | 12:56:28 AM
re: Top Ten Service Providers to Watch It is interesting to read articles in the press (or here, in the FastWeb case) where service providers and equipment providers insist that they have 'removed the SONET/SDH layer' from their network.

---------

This is a wonderful question, and the answer is simple: SONET isn't brand new. The equipment is a commodity, and therefore there aren't easy profits in it. Nor are there as many opportunities for vendors to lie about what their equipment can do.

All of which means that their stuff actually has to work, and they have to be efficient with their engineering and production. These are things that no VC-funded Silicon Valley scam vendor wants to come anywhere near. So we hear crap about "the death of SONET."
gigeguy 12/5/2012 | 12:56:26 AM
re: Top Ten Service Providers to Watch I must agree = they are one service provider that knows how to actually use the technology that's out there to put together a viable and profitable service offering.
Scott Clavenna 12/5/2012 | 12:56:19 AM
re: Top Ten Service Providers to Watch In an IP-over-DWDM architecture, SONET/SDH is only present as a framing solution on the interfaces of equipment attached directly to DWDM-based transmission systems such as metro or long haul DWDM terminal and OADMs. There is no intermediate SONET/SDH multiplexing/transport/protection layer, which leads to a "flatter" network, and in many cases a less expensive one to deploy and operate. SONET/SDH remains present only as a means of framing data signals and providing a standardized interface on transport gear. Protection is provided via the optical layer (DWDM protection swithcing) and/or layer 2, depending on how the service is created. When Gigabit Ethernet or 10GigE is used as a transport interface, SONET/SDH disappears altogether.

Scott
willywilson 12/5/2012 | 12:56:17 AM
re: Top Ten Service Providers to Watch 1. In an IP-over-DWDM architecture, SONET/SDH is only present as a framing solution on the interfaces of equipment attached directly to DWDM-based transmission systems such as metro or long haul DWDM terminal and OADMs.

2. When Gigabit Ethernet or 10GigE is used as a transport interface, SONET/SDH disappears altogether.

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1. In the real world, carriers that deploy DWDM run SONET on each color.

2. Maybe you've noticed what happened to the "GigE" carriers? Splat! BTW, if you actually talk to the guys who run those networks you'll find out that SONET is part of the mix.
gea 12/5/2012 | 12:56:16 AM
re: Top Ten Service Providers to Watch Scott Clavenna wrote...

"When Gigabit Ethernet or 10GigE is used as a transport interface, SONET/SDH disappears altogether."

Don't forget that one of the flavors of the IEEE 10Gig standard supports SONET framing!

I personally consider it very likely that this is the version of 10GbE that will prevail.

(Oh, and as for IP-over-Optical, Layer3-based protection is currently what's actually done in such networks. MPLS-based protection is also a possibility.)

Otherwise, an accurate post. SONET will never die, but it may fade quite a bit.
Scott Clavenna 12/5/2012 | 12:56:14 AM
re: Top Ten Service Providers to Watch "1. In the real world, carriers that deploy DWDM run SONET on each color."


Sprint's IP backbone is primarily IP-over-DWDM, with Cisco GSRs connected directly to DWDM transport via POS interfaces. Very real world.

"2. Maybe you've noticed what happened to the "GigE" carriers? Splat! BTW, if you actually talk to the guys who run those networks you'll find out that SONET is part of the mix."

We'll wait and see on that one. There are a number of foreign operators that have the luxury of building networks from scratch today and some are considering pure GigE transport as a viable solution. Cable MSOs also like pure GigE transport and a flatter network architecture. Certainly will be a niche for a while, and as Gea noted, the 10GigE interface will most often employ the WAN PHY which uses SONET framing.

Scott
willywilson 12/5/2012 | 12:56:12 AM
re: Top Ten Service Providers to Watch 1. Sprint's IP backbone is primarily IP-over-DWDM, with Cisco GSRs connected directly to DWDM transport via POS interfaces. Very real world.

2. There are a number of foreign operators that have the luxury of building networks from scratch today and some are considering pure GigE transport as a viable solution. Cable MSOs also like pure GigE transport and a flatter network architecture. Certainly will be a niche for a while, and as Gea noted, the 10GigE interface will most often employ the WAN PHY which uses SONET framing.

-------

1. Maybe so. I tend to be a bit skeptical of Sprint given all the lies they told about the ION project, and the blatant misleading they've done with respect to the PCS network, i.e., "3G" capability, prepaid customers a year ago, etc etc. Who knows, though, maybe lightning strikes and you can believe them this time.

2. SONET will be in most networks on a wide scale for many decades to come, notwithstanding the claims swallowed hook, line & sinker by the press and assorted techno-toadies about the latest SONET-killer. And no, I've got no personal interest in this one either. Just an affinity for what's real as opposed to what crap the vendors, carriers and press shovel out there every week.

Ringed? 12/5/2012 | 12:55:57 AM
re: Top Ten Service Providers to Watch Scott,

I completely disagree with you. Your email trivializes DWDM implementations and infers a simplistic solution to a somewhat complicated and expensive service offering.

For starters you are talking about delivering services via Ethernet switches over DWDM to people in MTU's in Western Europe. The economies of scale there don't lead to an adequate "apples to apples" topology/equipment comparison for the rest of the world. The topology and equipment ultimately equates to the cost of a network. This is a nice telecom niche for European states that bore the cost to lay a fiber plant. Granted there may not be SDH ADM's in their network build but I'll bet you a comparable SDH network build with GbE would be very compelling from a price standpoint.

Metro DWDM isn't cheap and it is implemented to solve a need, which is usually based on fiber constraints and exhaust. Not because DWDM is affordable.

DWDM protection isn't cheap either and it has been my experience there is always a trade off made whereby cost is the ultimate decision factor on how to protect services. From your post it is hard to tell if it is Point-to-Point, 1:1, 1+1, 1:N or ringed WDM. Each has a different set of technical and cost issues with respect to protection.

As far as Sonet/SDH disappearing completely when GbE or 10GbE transport links are used, I assume you're implying that if you could use a box such as Atrica (assuming they work) you wouldn't need a Sonet/SDH box. This is a futuristic assumption that GbE and 10Gbe WAN links become prominent. They are not today.

Here is how I see metro DWDM used most often

IP/DWDM for best efforts, slow restorable traffic on one set of wavelengths.

IP over Sonet on another set of wavelengths for those services that need fast restoral and security of Sonet.

IP over ATM over Sonet on another set of wavelengths for fine grained QoS services.

Wavelength utilization, translation and amplification become very expensive quick especially if all you can offer is one GbE service over a lambda.

Don't get me wrong. DWDM is great technology and is perfect for certain situations. But, from a pure cost standpoint you cannot beat GbE over Sonet with Virtual Concatenation. GFP and LCAS will add even more value to this type of a solution.

GbE services are poised to add new revenue streams to carriers but guess what. Carriers aren't going to yank out their Sonet/SDH infrastructures in favor of GbE wan links.

Greenfield Ethernet networks in Europe are perfect for NextGen Sonet/SDH muxes with Ethernet services. And they may very well ride over a DWDM network but I donGÇÖt view the lack of Sonet/SDH equipment as a plus. I view it as a minus.

Ringed?


Scott Wrote:
In an IP-over-DWDM architecture, SONET/SDH is only present as a framing solution on the interfaces of equipment attached directly to DWDM-based transmission systems such as metro or long haul DWDM terminal and OADMs. There is no intermediate SONET/SDH multiplexing/transport/protection layer, which leads to a "flatter" network, and in many cases a less expensive one to deploy and operate. SONET/SDH remains present only as a means of framing data signals and providing a standardized interface on transport gear. Protection is provided via the optical layer (DWDM protection swithcing) and/or layer 2, depending on how the service is created. When Gigabit Ethernet or 10GigE is used as a transport interface, SONET/SDH disappears altogether.

Scott
Scott Clavenna 12/5/2012 | 12:55:56 AM
re: Top Ten Service Providers to Watch Ringed?

Whoa there, pardner. Let's not get off on the wrong foot. I posted that description to clear up the meaning of IP-over-DWDM that was getting a bit distorted int he discussion thread.

I'm all for GFP. It's probably the most important development to come along this year for incumbent carriers. I agree with the rest of your post. Sheesh.

Scott
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