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rtfm 12/5/2012 | 12:17:33 AM
re: The Effect of War on Telecom (I hope people who share, oppose, or are curious by my views take the 3 minutes to read this - the links are sometimes long but worth reading)

I think this board degenerated a long time ago, and I do not seek to convince anyone about much. I do hope that we can all read, learn, question, and think more about these difficult issues.

If people are skeptical of the President, his motives, etc., are they automatically Gǣtraitors,Gǥ Gǣterrorists,Gǥ or Gǣanti-American?Gǥ Consider that we have a president who, before ordering the war to begin, putting countless US troopsG lives at risk (forget Iraqi civilians), pumps his fist and says GǣFeels good!Gǥ

KnightRidder article
http://www.realcities.com/mld/...

Worse, our President said, GǣLucky me, I hit the trifectaGǥ when asked about the 3 circumstances under which social security could be raided G War, Recession, National Emergency.

http://www.baltimorechronicle....
(I ignore the conspiracy theories, but read into the policy motives and views of the current administration).

Why are good citizens so worried about SaddamGs brutality and weapons of mass destruction (WMD) when there are no credible links to him and 9/11, and he is, in fact, hated by Osama bin Laden? There are other countries that are bigger supporters of terrorism and have WMD, like North Korea and Pakistan (the latter supported for decades by the US under cold war calculus). The spin over the war, from GǣterrorismGǥ to GǣWMDGǥ to GǣdemocracyGǥ undermines the good that we hope will emerge from the US led action in Iraq.

[Personal comment G this spin is typical of Administration views, that are given a free pass by our Gǣfree press.Gǥ Consider, the budget cuts, moving from Gǣgiving surplus money back to those who gave too muchGǥ to Gǣeconomy stimulusGǥ to Gǣ?Gǥ to, perhaps, ensuring government canGt grow (actually, even do what it should be doing).

US CongressmanGs webpage with Columnist Bob HerbertGs article. ]
http://www.house.gov/georgemil...

If we want to consider why the world might not trust us, consider just two cases.

1)The USS Vincennes G Where the US navy shoots down an Iranian civilian airliner flying along its prescribed flight plan. Instead of apologizing, it decorates the officers. There are reports that this led to greater hatred of the US, and was linked to the PanAm 103 Lockerbie crash.
SO, could attacking Iraq make the US less safe G more terrorism?

http://www.geocities.com/Capit...
(NewsweekGs investigations verify the fault of the US, but their own website doesnGt give me public/free links to their archived articles. NewsweeksG big story was dated July 13, 1992)

2)Pakistan (and India) G Ignore PakistanGs role in the Taliban, supporting Terrorism (esp. in Kashmir), giving nuclear technology to N. Korea (in exchange for missiles), having a population that is anti-american, but the dictator there is a GǣwillingGǥ ally, so itGs all good. I wish to bring up (again), the less well-known issue of the war of 1971. Here, the US sided with Pakistan over India, even inviting China to attack India! India only intervened in what was truly the war of Bangladeshi Independence because of several factors: 1) (West) Pakistani brutality against East Pakistan (now Bangladesh). When the West Pakistanis didnGt like the election results, Yahya Khan and his ilk sent in the army to East Pakistan, killing hundreds of thousands, if not over a million (in just about one year!). Like SaddamGs killing of people, it wasnGt about killing Muslims, but about ethnicities. 2) Refugees G India faced a humanitarian crisis as there were over TEN MILLION refugees pouring across its border. What did the US do? Blame India for the crisis. Rather, the *administration* blamed India, despite most of the public and even the senate recognizing IndiaGs position. The administration sent in a nuclear carrier to intimidate India. Luckily, Indians forget such matters, but much of the world doesnGt forget US inconsistencies in policy.

Detailed research paper that has some details on US policy-making and makers in 1971:
http://www.csis.org/saprog/ven...

I do not wish to pass judgment on the US public, but I wish to point out that more and more people are getting their news from fewer and fewer sources, especially the TV. That is not a good thing, and upcoming FCC rulings (new LR discussion topic?) on media ownership restriction are critical. The so-called Gǣliberal biasGǥ of the media is actually a well-constructed myth:

By Eric Alterman
http://www.thenation.com/docpr...
(people against thenation.com should consider reading other pieces on the Gǣliberal mediaGǥ myth.)

Kahneman and Tversky remind us that framing effects matter. These are just part of human nature. So please, as people free enough to have the means, opportunity, and freedom to make opinions, be critical of what we are told to believe.

Peace, Prosperity and Freedom,

rtfm

GǣSupport the TroopsGǥ G Sure, but not the bad policies that put them in harmGs way.
BobbyMax 12/5/2012 | 12:17:31 AM
re: The Effect of War on Telecom
You have done an excellent job of describing the
phony patriots. Since they can present a cogent argument in favor of this brutal war that has been lodged against the Iraqi people. The US Aministration essentially lied to the American people regarding Iraq possesing weapons of mass destruction. There many other serious and blatant lies regarding Iraq that were communicated to the US populace. "Dr" Bush along with "Dr." Chenney, and "Dr." Rumsfeld concocted all kind of lies and saturated the media by repeating the same thing.
Almost all newspapers promoted these lies by telling the same lie.

Lying to the American people is a very serios offense in our society. These guys may face judicial enquiry from the US Senate and the house of Representatives leding to "Dr." Bush's impeachment and resignation. In addition these guys would be charged with war time crimes for causing unwanted death and destruction. The US will probably expelled from the US.

This war is naked agression against a helpless nation. So far no weapons of mass destruction has been found and neither any kind of fatal weapons have been used by Iraq. In spite of this, most lethal weapons of mass destruction have been used by the US. The weapons of mass destruction were used in Japan, Vietnam, Serbia and Afghanistan.

There have not been open discussion by our intellectuals and academicians that have far better understandinf of war and peace. The gang in the white house that initiated this ugly war against Iraq have no idea about humanity. None of the gang members have done anything good in their lives except amasing wealth through questionable and illegal means.

The CEOs of the US companies who have acquired wealth through deceptive means have not spoken a word although their busineses are affected by this insane war. They claim to have the best brains in the world. So where is the application of brain. The country is tangled with war, so it is the best time to steal.

In the current white house, there are no intellectual to analyse the facts for "Dr." Bush.

No other country in the world has launched war against the US for inhumane treatment of 50 million Americans who do not have health insurance. No other country have said any thing for 70 million Americans who are very poor and hungry.The employment discrimination against blacks, hispanics and other ethnic minorties continues unabated. These are inhumane acts but no other country, including China, has not spoken a word against the US. We frequently critisize China for human rights violations. Why dont we examine ourelves.

The alert system that changes its color for no reason was done for the sole purpose of misleading Americans. There was never any real danger. In fact the Bush tactics was very clearly stated by Congressman Pete Stark. We are really bleshed that we have congressman who speaks the truth.



What is really troublesome is that we have weapons of
Rockyd 12/5/2012 | 12:17:31 AM
re: The Effect of War on Telecom In a house to house search in Nassiriya 3 marines first killed the man found in the house. After that they went physical with the lady found in the house. Later to liberate her from the agony she was also shot dead. The report is under investigation at the headquarters.

At least these two are truly liberated from their souls and the freedom came to them through Americans.
Trust more Iraquis are being liberated elsewhere.


This is history remembered.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worl...

Afganistan is so exited about democracy and their
prime minister that they import his body guards from US .Karzais body guards are from US.

For the People= For the US people
By the people = By the people of US
Of the People = Karzai is a US afghan having hotel buisness spread accross US

Start flaming me

pearlh 12/5/2012 | 12:17:30 AM
re: The Effect of War on Telecom Hi Crapshooter,

So everybody who is not of your opinion is not American, a girl, Chinese, a communist or what ever. This reasoning reminds me of times when some gangsters in German thought it was up to them to define who was German and what was German. I wonder what you need democracy
for if patriotism is a matter of Gǣstanding behind the leadersGǥ (people in Iraq stood behind their leader G even if they were to). I assume that patriotism is standing behind the people in the country you life in. That should also comprise
people one doesnGt like.
pearlh 12/5/2012 | 12:17:30 AM
re: The Effect of War on Telecom IsnGt it a bit stupid to believe that an army can
fight terrorism? From what I know it takes
police forces well trained in investigation to
deal with this problem. It is a police menGs
job to go after a criminal and catch the right
one. Terrorists are criminals G might their
motives differ from so called ordinary criminals
the victim probably canGt tell the difference.
One might say terrorists are much more
fanatic. In fact many murderers are just as
fanatic (the case of the two snipers in the
Washington area can be taken as an example).
crapshooter 12/5/2012 | 12:17:30 AM
re: The Effect of War on Telecom Boobie wrote:

Why dont we examine ourelves.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I think we are afraid to examing our elves because of what we might find. Personally, I am afraid to examine MY elves.

Seriously Barbie, stop using the term "we" to describe the U.S. I don't consider you an American. Why don't you move back to China or wherever the hell it is you come from.

CS
rafaelg 12/5/2012 | 12:17:29 AM
re: The Effect of War on Telecom rtfm

Excelent post! Unfortunately, you are giving most in here a lot of credit.
crapshooter 12/5/2012 | 12:17:29 AM
re: The Effect of War on Telecom pearlh wrote:

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Wrong, I don't need to stand behind imbeciles like BoobieMax, gardner and others.
ajar 12/5/2012 | 12:17:29 AM
re: The Effect of War on Telecom pearlh wrote:

IsnGt it a bit stupid to believe that an army can
fight terrorism? From what I know it takes
police forces well trained in investigation to
deal with this problem. It is a police menGs
job to go after a criminal and catch the right
one. Terrorists are criminals G might their
motives differ from so called ordinary criminals
the victim probably canGt tell the difference.
One might say terrorists are much more
fanatic. In fact many murderers are just as
fanatic (the case of the two snipers in the
Washington area can be taken as an example).

.......................................

I think your the stupid one....You are right when you say terrorists are criminals, but to suggest that the police can handle them is stupid.

These people have shoulder launch missiles, tanks, chemical weapons, they blow themselves up, etc. Are you suggesting that we equip our police to handle this. Your crazy, it takes much more training and resources to handles these animals.

-ajar
Rockyd 12/5/2012 | 12:17:28 AM
re: The Effect of War on Telecom 2) Pakistan (and India) G Ignore PakistanGs role in the Taliban, supporting Terrorism (esp. in Kashmir), giving nuclear technology to N. Korea (in exchange for missiles), having a population that is anti-american, but the dictator there is a GǣwillingGǥ ally, so itGs all good. I wish to bring up (again), the less well-known issue of the war of 1971. Here, the US sided with Pakistan over India, even inviting China to attack India! India only intervened in what was truly the war of Bangladeshi Independence because of several factors: 1) (West) Pakistani brutality against East Pakistan (now Bangladesh). When the West Pakistanis didnGt like the election results, Yahya Khan and his ilk sent in the army to East Pakistan, killing hundreds of thousands, if not over a million (in just about one year!). Like SaddamGs killing of people, it wasnGt about killing Muslims, but about ethnicities. 2) Refugees G India faced a humanitarian crisis as there were over TEN MILLION refugees pouring across its border. What did the US do? Blame India for the crisis. Rather, the *administration* blamed India, despite most of the public and even the senate recognizing IndiaGs position. The administration sent in a nuclear carrier to intimidate India. Luckily, Indians forget such matters, but much of the world doesnGt forget US inconsistencies in policy.
--------------------------------------------------

This is history. A few days ago
Dubya has wiped $ 1 billion worth of Pakistan Debts.
Mushharraf will go laughing all the way and wipe his ass with couple of Billion worth of Us aid and rewards.
Trust this is Taxpayers money

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