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gbennett 12/5/2012 | 2:14:25 AM
re: The Chinese Are Coming, Says Poll stephenpcooke said...

Here is the ultimate problem...

If the carriers are not participating in a standard, for whatever reason, and therefore have no corporate ownership invested in that standard, how likely are they to make a corporate effort to implement and deploy that standard when they feel that the standard 'body' has reached its final version in the wrong way (from their point of view)?

I hear you, but I wonder if the actualy problem is somewhat different? In the past, carriers would take many years to roll out new services (examples like ISDN, Frame Relay).

Today they want to roll out new services before the ink is dry on the *drafts*, never mind the standards!

"RFC 2547bis" is not even an RFC, never mind a standard (Internet Standards may take several years to be finalised, just like ITU standards). The original RFC did not contain enough information to build an implementation, and so anyone who isn't Cisco has to reverse-engineer their "BGP-driven, Layer 3 MPLS VPN implementation" to make sure it will interoperate.

The same is true for VPLS today, where we still have an argument going on over LDP vs BGP for tunnel signalling.

And even BGP, one of the foundations of the Internet, and a protocol that's being extended into Layer 2 and Layer 3 VPNs, is not an Internet Standard. In fact, we know that even the IDs are not enough to create a working BGP implementation, you need to employee somebody who worked on the code at Cisco or Juniper.

This is a great situation for the incumbent IP vendors, but it sucks if you're a startup, and one of the repeating themes on these boards is that we all think innovation springs from startups.

chasing the carrot 12/5/2012 | 2:14:24 AM
re: The Chinese Are Coming, Says Poll Interesting place to post that question.

I think that the publication of a test plan with along side a standard would lead to knock off shops designing to test plans and not the standard. Enough designers are already making subsets or extensions to standards outside of committee without giving them a second set of rules to look at.
sigint 12/5/2012 | 2:14:23 AM
re: The Chinese Are Coming, Says Poll brahmos:
thanks for reminding me of the Govt owned telecom
makers. they have a wide range of smalla and medium products. most of the senior people in india came
out of these and defence labs.

You might want to include ITI, who actually manufacture and sell most CDOT designs.


the revenue is pegged at US$ 377.74 million for last fiscal.

they had pretty good success with the CDOT rural exchanges in the african markets, as these were ruggedized to work without an air-conditioned environment. good example of technology adapting to the needs of a people, rather than people having to adapt to technology!


in the earlier days, the government insisted on "transfers of technology" when engaging with a foreign partner and ITI ended up manufacturing the Alcatel E10B voice switch (equivalent to the S12{I think}, in the western markets). i think they continue to ship E10B line cards with Alcatel's concurrence to other markets that ALA dabbles in.

Indy_lite 12/5/2012 | 2:14:18 AM
re: The Chinese Are Coming, Says Poll Maybe the title should be "The Chinese are going back to China". Chinese students started coming to U.S/Canada from mid 80s, the number peaked during 2000. At the beginning, people did everything to stay here, now they are starting to move back - especially people who built enough credential in the U.S to get enough attention in China, like Deng Feng, Simon Cao, Zhu Min etc who came to the US in the late 80s or early 90s, and made a name here, still very young.
stephenpcooke 12/5/2012 | 2:14:17 AM
re: The Chinese Are Coming, Says Poll Sorry about the placement of the item, it had to do with Geoff's standards-based posts...

Regarding your comment on knock-off shops not meeting the 'standard' but meeting the accompanying test plan, I find that hard to understand. If something cannot be described well enough in a 'standards' document to be adequately and consistently tested, and the test case(s) be agreed to by the members of the standards body, what does it matter? No one will ever be compliant to what was envisioned. The bottom line is that a 'standardized' test plan would substantially reduce the amount of ambiguity in the compliance process as well as enhance the understandability of the standards document itself. It would also enable more competition in the complaince testing industry (which is why Telcordia doesn't release its test plans).

I have been involved in numerous customer lab activities and field trials and it is always best if you understand, beforehand, exactly what someone is going to do with your product before it fails in front of them. Another point is that there are many un-documented test cases that carriers perform on all vendor's equipment (I have seen this first-hand on several occasions). With this format, hopefully the number of these un-documented test cases would be drastically reduced because the carrier's upper management would be keen to have less bug-fixing time done in their lab (though the carrier's testers would be more unhappy because they would theoretically be able to cause less pain to the vendors).
stephenpcooke 12/5/2012 | 2:14:16 AM
re: The Chinese Are Coming, Says Poll Hi Geoff,

I am afraid we are going to have to disagree on this one :-) When was the last time you saw an RBOC provide a 'new' service in what most people would describe as a 'reasonable' amount of time?

Incidentally, exactly how does MPLS fit into OSMINE?

I completely agree with your comment on innovation not just coming from startups.
st0 12/5/2012 | 2:14:11 AM
re: The Chinese Are Coming, Says Poll deregulation standards resulted decentralization process. The outcome would be (best) above average standards, with one foot in the past and one in the future....no ground breaking, true platform change new technology implementation. (welcome to the voting system of majority rules.... how many visionary chaps on the earth? out numbered by the average joe...).

CX 12/5/2012 | 2:12:38 AM
re: The Chinese Are Coming, Says Poll http://pakistanidefence.ipbhos...

This is a post I posted before.
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