The Asian Invasion

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zli2g 12/5/2012 | 12:32:10 AM

re: The Asian Invasion Crapshooter wrote these words of "wisdom":

Asians hardly every rise through the ranks in American companies to top managerial positions.
Why? Because for all heir "education," they, for the most part, have poor personality skills and have tunnel vision.

In this industry, the American companies that were started by Asian engineers have little chance for survival. Why? Because they're run by people with engineering degrees (read "no business acumen whatsoever").
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Crapshooter: A few questions for you below...

Do American (Caucasian) women "rise through the ranks in American companies"?? Or become President of the USA for that matter????

If not, is it because they "have poor personality skills and have tunnel vision" ??????

How many of world's biggest and most successful companies were run by the Americans with great "personality" and great "vision"????

Crapshooter also wrote:
"Why? Because they're run by people with engineering degrees (read "no business acumen whatsoever")."

Was Steve Job an engineer? What about Bill Gates? And Larry Ellison? I remember they all did coding before they were rich.

What about Mr Hewlett and Mr Packard? What about Andy Grove, or Gordon More, or Craig Barret? What about John Chen, CEO of Sybase, who was an engineer from Caltech (so was Gordon Moore)?

What kind of degree do you Crapshooter have? And from what kind of school? Let us know please ...

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zli2g 12/5/2012 | 12:32:10 AM

re: The Asian Invasion <2. General honesty level
<4. Business Ethics

If anything, the past few years have showcased
the corruption in corporate America and on Wall
Street.

The difference between US and Asia when it comes to honesty level and business ethics are:

a. American CEOs and investors rip-off the victims in an "elegant" and "sophisticated" way with instruments such as compensation and severance packages as in the case of Jack Welch of GE, Christakos former CEO of E*Trade, and Capellas of Compaq, etc..... More below....

b. Average citizens of both east and west will take advantage of "freebies" such as MP3, software, etc...

c. Perhaps other people on this board can note other exmaples/differences of greed and corruption in both the east and the west.

See attached news story concerning Capellas severance.

Also, San Francisco Chronicle today reports, quoting Cox News Service, that average of 50 S&P500 CEO gets $16.5 million in severance with the largest at $80 million. Less than 2% of companies studied will pay a CEO less than one year's salary as severance. "Performance seems to have no baring on compensation, the study noted." )

HP investor seeks limit on severance
Union protests ex-president's golden parachute

Benjamin Pimentel, Chronicle Staff Writer Friday, February 28, 2003

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Disturbed by the $14.4 million golden parachute that former Hewlett- Packard President Michael Capellas received when he left the company, a union is attempting to muster shareholder support to limit the size of executive severance packages in the future.

Acting in its capacity as an HP investor, the Service Employees International Union has authored a proposal that would require the HP board to obtain shareholder approval for any proposed severance package that is more than 2.99 times a departing executive's salary plus bonuses, according to a company proxy statement filed Thursday with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

The proposal is one of nine on the ballot at the company's shareholder meeting on April 2 in Atlanta.

Capellas left HP in November to become the chief executive officer of WorldCom, after receiving the $14.4 million separation payment.

In addition, he received a $1.9 million annual incentive payment and $100, 000 to cover such needs as tax preparation, security and accounting.

His base salary in 2002 was $800,000, according to the document.

The package had been approved by the board of the former Compaq Computer, where Capellas served as CEO before HP acquired the Texas company last year. HP assumed Capellas' employment agreement after the merger.

In its proposal, the SEIU acknowledged that such an agreement "may be appropriate in some circumstances."

But citing news reports on the negative reactions of analysts and Wall Street to Capellas' sudden departure, the labor organization argued that "given the magnitude of the benefits payable under such agreements, we believe the company should seek shareholder approval of any future such agreements."

The group added that requiring shareholder approval of such agreements may also insulate the HP board "from manipulation in the event an executive's employment must be terminated."

HP has asked shareholders to vote against the SEIU proposal, saying it would hinder the board's ability to recruit the best talent for executive positions.

"We believe that the board needs flexibility to design compensation packages, including severance arrangements, to compete for executive talent," HP said in rebuttal statement included in the SEC document. Charles Elson, director of the Center for Corporate Governance at the University of Delaware, said the SEIU proposal makes sense, adding that Capellas' severance package was extremely generous.

"That's quite a bit of money to say goodbye," he said. "Why make an individual extraordinarily wealthy when he leaves to do something else? Did it benefit the shareholders of HP and Compaq?"

Capellas could not be reached for comment.

E-mail Benjamin Pimentel at [email protected]

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<1. Infrastructure and population problem
This indeed is a big problem.

<2. General honesty level
Thought this was true before I heard Enron, Worldcom, Qwest, Xerox, (The list can go on and on) scandals. I definitely do not trust most executives in most Corportae Americans, let alone wall street crooks.

<3. VC attitude(Asians are careful investors)
Is this good or bad? Apparently Asia does not suffer post bubble pain as much as the U.S. do.

<4. Business Ethics
Asia has lots of hard and dedicated work bees.

<5. Political/Ethnic problem
I would agree with you if I was in my first 3 years in the U.S.. However, after I come to the US for so long, I start to doubt it. Politics in the U.S. might just be as ugly.

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BobbyMax 12/5/2012 | 12:32:08 AM

re: The Asian Invasion The Asian educatuion is very limited in scope. The students there do not have broad-based skills need to succeed in the american society. The education o0f Asian students is primarily confined to text books alone. There is a serious flaw to apply the text book knowledge to solving real world problems. Because of this serious deficiency in the educational process, Asia with the exception of Japan has done well.

America does not depend on foreign talents to advance technology and science. A lot of Asian students and workers came here because of the US Governmernt's weak policy and pure politics. The immigration from Asia has occured due to extreme greed of American companies. Typically in Asia students get their Masters degree in four years, but the american stdents spend four years to get their Bachelor's degree. So there is no equivalence betwwen the academic traing of American and Asian students.

The Asian poulation that was allowed to immigrate consisted of all kinds of people: Gas Statuion Attendants, restaurant workers, taxi drivers, laundry workers, etc.

Because of excessive immigration of Asian workers, many states and communities have like third world countries. It has affected the life style of americans forever. There will be no recovery from this disaster.

Because of the cultural influence of Asian parents, the likelihood of an Asian student, even those attending MIT, Harvard, Princeton, or Stanford is very unlikely.

The American society is very generous and giving, but the Asian people do not contribute much to the communities they live in. This is the biggest drawback of Asians.

During the Vitnam conflict, dumped over 5-6 million vietanamese in the US. Similar dumpings took place during other conflicts in the world. During the last Iraqui war, thousands and thousands of Iraquis were dumped in State of Michigan.

Before the HI Visa workers left USA, they had 3-4 US born children. So we will a large influsx of immigrants in the next 12-15 years. By the way legal immigration itself poses a lot of problems. These legal immigrants make a town of the size of Fort Worth every year. The US Government does not have resources to absorb these people.

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crapshooter 12/5/2012 | 12:32:07 AM

re: The Asian Invasion King Kong wrote:

Now a days most of the upper management in high tech companies are asians. I am the chief architect of a high tech startup and the CEO is asian too. There are a bunch of fat ass lazy americans working for us.

For many asians, work is worship and we take our work very seriously. When I came to this country I saw lazy americans at work wasting away their time on the phone and web browsing.

--------------------------------

The fact that the upper management of many of the high-tech startups is Asian only further proves my point. Startups in opto are hurting, and not just from the economic downturn. They are greatly mis-managed and doomed to failure. Even in good times, a lot of these companies would fail; the poor economy is only so much of an acceptable excuse.

I agree that work is "worship" for many Asians. I have said nothing negative about the Asian work ethic. However, work is only one part of life. Americans understand the need to stop and smell the roses from time to time. So many people see the world in black and white that I wonder if they can even distinguish the roses from the background.

With regards to the work habits of some of your American employees, I wonder why you wouldn't simply fire them if they, indeed, spent the day chatting on the phone and surfing the net.

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crapshooter 12/5/2012 | 12:32:07 AM

re: The Asian Invasion 1) Yes, women in America have historically had a difficult time rising through the ranks. However, this has improved dramatically over the past two decades. A recent article in the Wall Street Journal points out that American women's salaries are at an all time high when compared to their mail counterparts. There is still a gap, but it has shrunk and continued to do so every year. Perfect, no, but real progress. Don't forget...women in the workplace was frowned upon up until very recent history.

2) Yes, some of the greatest companies in the world have been (and continue to be) run by engineers. However, I can assure you that the prominent figures you have mentioned spent considerable effort learning the business side of things to complement their technical skills. My comments about Asian engineers failing to gain top-level positions relates to the fact that many of them do NOT take the additional business courses in school to provide the beginnings of a skillset that will help them to succeed in key managerial positions. A college-level degree with a pure focus on technical coursework can and does limit the ability for one to think outside the box.

3) As for my college background, I have a bachelor's degree in English and a Master's in marketing - both obtained from a prominent American university.

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Bill Johnson 12/5/2012 | 12:32:07 AM

re: The Asian Invasion kwokkong wrote:
"Manufacturing is already in Asia. Soon all software and hardware development will be done in asia. People from China and Hong kong are very educated and smart and can do everything very efficient. Americans don't work hard as the asians."

kk, all of your posts on this thread have been very stereotypical and short-sighted. I am glad that you are proud of your Asian heritage but to state that all Asians have a stronger work ethic than Americans is truly asinine. I can agree that Asians are perhaps on the whole more disciplined when it comes to academia but not on work ethics.

Manufacturing will continue to grow in Asian SWEAT-SHOPS because the labor costs are drastically lower in third-world countries than the rest of the world but the workmanship is not always top-notch. SW and HW development is worlswide and the US continues to be the forerunner.

As for people from Hong Kong and China being very educated, smart, and overly efficient; you are again being stereotypical and misled. There are some very bright people in both locales but the percentage of these people is extremely small compared to the population as a whole.

On the topic of population - if Chinese are sooooo smart, then why do they enact laws that limit the number of children couples can have and punish those that exceed these numbers? Ever heard of birth control? Condoms? I know the US does not make them that small but perhaps the Asian manufacturing giants could address this.

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Fortunecookie 12/5/2012 | 12:32:06 AM

re: The Asian Invasion <1) Yes, women in America have historically had a difficult time rising through the ranks. However, this has improved dramatically over the past two decades. A recent article in the Wall Street Journal points out that American women's salaries are at an all time high when compared to their mail counterparts. There is still a gap, but it has shrunk and continued to do so every year. Perfect, no, but real progress. Don't forget...women in the workplace was frowned upon up until very recent history.

Did you notice that more and more Asians move up to management as well in the past 10 years?

<2) Yes, some of the greatest companies in the world have been (and continue to be) run by engineers. However, I can assure you that the prominent figures you have mentioned spent considerable effort learning the business side of things to complement their technical skills.

Why don't also say that many business guys also spent considerable time to catch up new technology concepts?

3) As for my college background, I have a bachelor's degree in English and a Master's in marketing - both obtained from a prominent American university.

Well, I guess your educational background explains all. A typical marketing idiot. You don't have a good logic and reasoning. Buddy, seriously, I would suggest you to get some engineering (or science) training. That will help you in your life.

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crapshooter 12/5/2012 | 12:32:05 AM

re: The Asian Invasion Bill Johnson wrote:

On the topic of population - if Chinese are sooooo smart, then why do they enact laws that limit the number of children couples can have and punish those that exceed these numbers? Ever heard of birth control? Condoms? I know the US does not make them that small but perhaps the Asian manufacturing giants could address this.

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Righteous post, Bill. Righteous.

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grateful photon 12/5/2012 | 12:32:05 AM

re: The Asian Invasion
"...salaries are at an all time high when compared to their mail counterparts..."

english degree?

"A college-level degree with a pure focus on technical coursework can and does limit the ability for one to think outside the box."

this is unmitigated bullshit espoused by a non-technical person along for the ride in tech. while many of you hangers-on succeed in lining your pockets, it's comments like the one above that show your true colors. i worked very hard at my university degrees...much harder than marketing and english majors. it took much higher marks to get into my degree field. it took much higher analytical thinking. the same things that make for data-driven execution and decision-making in business. for every technical person who "can't think outside the box," as you say, there are a dozen LAS people who can't grasp the technology or the strategy.

technology gets done in the absence of english majors and marketing folks, engineers fill those positions in their spare time. the opposite simply does not happen.

your comments embody the worst of the tech boom: the lackies that jumped on the train without buying a ticket. you, carly fiorina and your ilk will all be exposed.

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Fortunecookie 12/5/2012 | 12:32:04 AM

re: The Asian Invasion On the topic of population - if Chinese are sooooo smart, then why do they enact laws that limit the number of children couples can have and punish those that exceed these numbers? Ever heard of birth control? Condoms? I know the US does not make them that small but perhaps the Asian manufacturing giants could address this.
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Chinese ain't sooooo smart, but not so stupid either. I believe they are just as smart as other people in the rest of the rest. Nothing more, nothing less.

The only advantage of Chinese is their cheap labor.

One child policy. I agree, it is cruel, but don't forget the context. I personally do not like many things that Chinese government has done and is doing, but I think Chinese government is right on this.

Birth control, Comdoms? Have you ever been to China or you still live in last century? Seriously, your ignorance is not funny at all.

" I know the US does not make them that small". This sentence is complete racist. BTW, I bet yours is smaller than a donkey's anyway, do you mean you are inferior to a donkey?

Alright, I am out. Educating you is completely wasting of my time, and education is not free anyway.

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