re: The Asian InvasionGrateful photon, you pompous weasel, it takes all kinds to make a company run efficiently. If a 100-person company had 100 engineers in its employ, how far would it get? It might make one hell of an R&D center, but how would it generate revenue?
How dare you call me a "hanger-on." When I walked into the doors of the startup where I now work, NO ONE heard of them. Now, WE are well known in the industry. Sure, the economy sucks, but we are surviving and in better shape than most of the companies out there (this has been said by more than one LR editor).
As for the pissing contest you're trying to start about our respective college majors, save your breath. I worked damn hard to achieve my academic degrees. During my sophmore year, my father (a European immigrant) went on long-term disability and couldn't afford to pay my tuition. I went on to work full-time (9 hours a day Monday - Thursday) and took 2 1/2 years of coursework at night and all day Friday. Four nights a week I also worked a second job. In between all of that, I managed to study and graduate with a 3.43 GPA (not tops in my class, but I'm proud of it, considering how much I had to do to get that far).
Don't worry about trying to "expose" me. There are no skeletons in my closet. I am the best at what I do and my employers appreciate my efforts. We make several different products and I am one of the few people in the company that needs to be up to speed on all of them. And I manage to do just fine, even though I am a dumb old English major.
Manufacturing will continue to grow in Asian SWEAT-SHOPS because the labor costs are drastically lower in third-world countries than the rest of the world but the workmanship is not always top-notch.
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This reminds me of an incident at my last job (entirely different industry). We received a videotape from a Chinese factory that was manufacturing a product similar to ours. A portion of the tape was devoted to the "living" conditions of the factory workers. The tape showed a dingy barracks with bunkbeds closely packed together. The narrator boasted "we give our worker three bowls rice a day." Oh, joy of joys!
I am not ignorant; I realize that three bowls of rice on a daily basis is luxurious for the masses in many parts of the world (China included). However, it does speak volumes for the overall state of China, and that we are talking about a third-world country. Of course, there is poverty in the U.S. (and in all of the six developed continents) but this is the exception in America and not the norm.
I just did some grocery shopping. It's freezing cold here in the Northeast, yet I was able to easily purchase fresh fruit and vegetables. The meat cases were also fully stocked, as was the dairy department. Is this the best country in the world or what?
re: The Asian Invasionfortunecookie wrote: "" I know the US does not make them that small". This sentence is complete racist. BTW, I bet yours is smaller than a donkey's anyway, do you mean you are inferior to a donkey?
Alright, I am out. Educating you is completely wasting of my time, and education is not free anyway."
Not racist but stereotypical. I was merely trying to address that KK was incorrect in using stereotypes as well as inject a little humor. Why would you think I was being racist? Have you been speaking with Al Sharpton?
As for donkeys, they and others in the equine genus are very well endowed. Although I cannot compete with horses, there is a reason that the male member is often referred to as a "johnson". :-)
I never asked for you to educate me. Learn to write properly before you offer to tutor anyone. Your spelling is atrocious. As for my education, you can simply call me doctor.
re: The Asian Invasion<there <br="" a="" americans="" are="" ass="" bunch="" fat="" for="" lazy="" of="" us.="" working=""> <for americans="" and="" asians,="" at="" away="" browsing<br="" came="" country="" i="" is="" lazy="" many="" on="" our="" phone="" saw="" seriously.="" take="" the="" their="" this="" time="" to="" very="" wasting="" we="" web="" when="" work="" worship=""> ---------------------------------------------- C'mon, Kwokkong, Gimmy a break, America is still the best now, and will be for many years. What makes you so myopic?
I personally have seen many great American scientists and engineers. I give them my full respect. Tell you the truth, the best I have seen are Americans.</for></there>
re: The Asian Invasion 100 engineers creating value will generate revenue. if you want examples, look no further than how the many of the top companies in america were founded. yes, with a more diverse employee base, they can do even more, even better. and yes, sometimes good technology languishes for lack of marketing.
your provocative generalization that technically trained people can't "think outside the box" reveals your own arrogance. get out your pop psych book...maybe it says your a little insecure.
as for your personal struggle to finish your education, while i acknowlege your fortitude, it's not germane to the discussion. most people had financial hardship in college and felt the pain of growing up in those years. i walked up hill both ways in the snow, too.
BUT, the level of training, the mental rigor, and the sheer amount of work to obtain an engineering degree puts the academic endeavors of technical folk heads above the vast majority of LAS folk. i really don't know how you argue any different, unless you never have had an appreciation for what a technical degree requires. i don't want a pissing contest, and i don't expect you to salute me or my engineering brethren. these are merely the facts.
congratulations on telling the world about the better mousetrap your company created. now, follow the root of the value creation. the things that can actually be shipped off the dock in exchange for cash. that is why you have a job. i know it's more convenient to forget all that. but the market will give you a painful reminder if you do.
I'm not speaking about marketing alone. A real company needs accounting, IT, QA, customer service, technians, shipping/receiving, a receptionist, etc. I will slightly modify what I have said previously: engineers are an important part of the company (the technology is, of course, key), but they can't do it alone.
As for my comments about engineers not being able to think outside the box, perhaps that is too strong a generalization. However, many (I won't say all) engineers do tend to see the world in black and white. My dad is a lifelong mechanical engineer and we have had discussions on this topic on several occassions. He has admitted to not being able to always see all of the many shades of gray that lay between black and white.
With regards to the difficulty of obtaining and engineering degree as opposed to a liberal arts one, I think that all educational pursuits have their own degrees of difficulty and challenges. They also help to shape the mind in different ways. For example, although I do not have a degree in engineering, I imagine that people who do become somewhat analytical thinkers; this is, perhaps, necessary to succeed in that discipline. With liberal arts, an individual's thought process is shaped to see and appreciate the shades of gray a little bit more. Neither is right or wrong; they are just a little bit different.
Finally, I was not looking for congratulations or even recognition for the sacrifices I made to get my undergraduate degree. I was simply stating that it was not quite as easy as you may have thought.
We may have gotten off on the wrong foot. As I have stated earlier in this post, I made some generalizations that were too broad. My apologies for that.
re: The Asian InvasionFinally, I was not looking for congratulations or even recognition for the sacrifices I made to get my undergraduate degree. I was simply stating that it was not quite as easy as you may have thought. ------------------------------------------------ Crapshooter, It seems I have hard time to understand your logic and reasoning. GP was comparing engineering degree and liberal arts degree, but you brought up you personal experience at undergraduate. I am sure there are tons of engineering students who had some hardship as well. For example, myself. My parents could not support me at all. I don't think this is relevant to the topic though. Have your heard apple-to-apple comparison?
It seems you kind of agree GP: "Yeah, liberal arts degrees are much easy than engieering degrees. However, since I had hardship at undergradute, so for myself, getting a liberal arts degree was not that easy." Is that what you are trying to say?
GP might be wrong, but your logic is totally off the target.
re: The Asian InvasionIt seems you kind of agree GP: "Yeah, liberal arts degrees are much easy than engieering degrees. However, since I had hardship at undergradute, so for myself, getting a liberal arts degree was not that easy." Is that what you are trying to say?
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I didn't say that engineering degrees are more difficult to obtain than liberal arts one. I said that every academic pursuit presents its own set of difficulties and challenges. Whether you study Shakespeare, photons or Freud, there is much to learn - and one really never learns all there is to know.
Perhaps posting my personal hardship as an undergraduate was not entirely "apples to apples" in response to GP's post. It has been so long since I was an undergrad that my strife stands out as the clearest memories from that time in my life.
re: The Asian InvasionAsians hardly every rise through the ranks in American companies to top managerial positions. Why? Because for all heir "education," they, for the most part, have poor personality skills and have tunnel vision. ------------------------------------------------- No. No... managers that rise through the ranks help the company make lots of money. They are the sales people that bring in the dough. Engineers can't be sales people because they like to give it to you straight. If 2+2=4, the engineer will tell you 4 where as the sales guy will tell you it's 3 or 5 depending on whatever answer is going to close the deal.
It takes a certain personality to succeed with an English and Marketing degree. Not everybody is up to this kind of challenge. Not everyone is able to "think outside the box."
I believe 9.9 out of 10 people have to be American in sales. Even if that one were Asian, 0.9% of his personality has to be American to succeed.
So the top money makers will always rise to top managerial positions because they've proven that they'll do whatever it takes to make the company money.
Crapshooter... a person doesn't go get an engineering degree to obtain an analytical mindset. It is a person with an analytical mind that goes out to get an engineering degree. You can't even comprehend simple logic such as this. How can you have even hoped to get an engineering degree? That is why you had to opt for something that's a lot less treacherous on the brain. =)
I do believe you have to stay on top of your company's newest technology. Probably a bird's eye view of everything. From that high up, everything seems simple right?
Please...o please don't try to tell us that your company wouldn't have been so successful if you didn't come along. Your company's successful because of its product (developed by engineers). You merely beat out your competitor to close the deal. I won't even ask what you had to tell them to win your deals. Probably shoot them a lot of crap.....
re: The Asian InvasionAmerica was invaded by Asians since the mid sixties. The main invasion came from the Indians and Chines. It was very difficult for Indians to go to the United Kingdom for any purpose. There were a lot of claims for Indians to make the neighborhhod and the dweeling very dirty.
With the passage of the civil rights act of 1964, a lot of Indians and Cinese were helped by the Affirmatice Actions practiced by the American Industries and the educational institutions. The help came to enter the premier universities and gettinhg jobs. The real victims of discrinations were simply ignored.
Many states have fallen to the chinese and Indians (e.g, California, State of Washington). The immi8gration has also led subtantial sub-standard education at all levels of our academic institutions.
The American System does not recognise academic accomplishments. In fact, any body can get a job regardless of once education.. This itself has led to a lot of corru[tion in the industry> Some of the community Colleges in California have [produced thousands of CEOs. This does not happen anywhere except in the US. This must stop as it brings a lot of humiliation to the workers and other concerned parties.
How dare you call me a "hanger-on." When I walked into the doors of the startup where I now work, NO ONE heard of them. Now, WE are well known in the industry. Sure, the economy sucks, but we are surviving and in better shape than most of the companies out there (this has been said by more than one LR editor).
As for the pissing contest you're trying to start about our respective college majors, save your breath. I worked damn hard to achieve my academic degrees. During my sophmore year, my father (a European immigrant) went on long-term disability and couldn't afford to pay my tuition. I went on to work full-time (9 hours a day Monday - Thursday) and took 2 1/2 years of coursework at night and all day Friday. Four nights a week I also worked a second job. In between all of that, I managed to study and graduate with a 3.43 GPA (not tops in my class, but I'm proud of it, considering how much I had to do to get that far).
Don't worry about trying to "expose" me. There are no skeletons in my closet. I am the best at what I do and my employers appreciate my efforts. We make several different products and I am one of the few people in the company that needs to be up to speed on all of them. And I manage to do just fine, even though I am a dumb old English major.