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curry_rice 12/5/2012 | 12:31:52 AM
re: The Asian Invasion Oh, you forgot to answer the question. The question was what degree and from what school.

You answered a "prominent" university. One of the definitions of prominent is "Immediately noticeable; conspicuous". Does that mean an immediately noticeable conspicuous university?
crapshooter 12/5/2012 | 12:31:51 AM
re: The Asian Invasion Curry rice,

Thanks for joining the party.

No. No... managers that rise through the ranks help the company make lots of money. They are the sales people that bring in the dough. Engineers can't be sales people because they like to give it to you straight. If 2+2=4, the engineer will tell you 4 where as the sales guy will tell you it's 3 or 5 depending on whatever answer is going to close the deal.


CR: you're right about sales. I argue with our sales force constantly about their ability to make 2+2 equal anything they want (3 or 5 is actually being kind; I've seen sales make 2+4 equal exponentially high numbers). The analogy I like to use is a sales person will promise a customer that the sun will rise at midnight if that is what is required to close a deal.

Having said that, Sales is a necessary animal. We can all say what we want, but a company without Sales is not really a company at all. Can sales people be overly tenacious and distort the facts? Absolutely. Do they have the skills and mindset to turn over every stone and pebble to ensure that they are hitting every possible facet of the market, to make sure there is a constant revenue stream to keep the company afloat? Of course.

I believe 9.9 out of 10 people have to be American in sales. Even if that one were Asian, 0.9% of his personality has to be American to succeed. So the top money makers will always rise to top managerial positions because they've proven that they'll do whatever it takes to make the company money.

CR: just about every job has some sales involved, whether you're selling to a customer or your own manager. And, yes, the top managerial positions will always be comprised of the top money makers. A CEO needs the personality to sell his company to investors, his seconds-in command, his employees, the media, etc. In a nutshell, the CEO may have started life as an engineer, but he/she needs to be able to sell as well if the company is to succeed.

Crapshooter... a person doesn't go get an engineering degree to obtain an analytical mindset. It is a person with an analytical mind that goes out to get an engineering degree. You can't even comprehend simple logic such as this. How can you have even hoped to get an engineering degree? That is why you had to opt for something that's a lot less treacherous on the brain. =)

CR: Yes, you are correct. A person who seeks an engineering degree already has analytical mindet, but those years of coursework can't help but intensify a person's mindset and skew their perspective. What, a person with an inherent analytical mindset has never gone on to pursue a liberal arts degree? Would years of courses in a "liberal" discipline, perhaps, make a person se things a little more abstractly?

I do believe you have to stay on top of your company's newest technology. Probably a bird's eye view of everything. From that high up, everything seems simple right?

CR: My view of the company's technology is not as in-depth as that of the key technologists. It is not, however, a "bird's eye view." I have published white papers on different subjects. Yes, I had help from engineering, but knowledge us not a weapon - it is a tool. That's why my company appreciates my English degree: maybe one of our engineers has something useful and valid to publish, but isn't experienced in writing long articles. I am happy to lend my expertise to him/her.


Please...o please don't try to tell us that your company wouldn't have been so successful if you didn't come along. Your company's successful because of its product (developed by engineers). You merely beat out your competitor to close the deal. I won't even ask what you had to tell them to win your deals. Probably shoot them a lot of crap.....

CR: My company would have been successful with or without me, that is true. I did have to beat several "competitors," but beat them I did by proving myself worthy to several levels of senior management. As I've said in previous posts, I am very good in my area of excellence, and it is an honorable career choice, regardless of what other posters may think. I saved the crap shooting for the LR boards :).

crapshooter 12/5/2012 | 12:31:51 AM
re: The Asian Invasion Don't nitpick so much. The word "prominent" is entirely appropriate as an adjective for my alma mater. I am simply trying to maintain anonymity.
fairhearing 12/5/2012 | 12:31:49 AM
re: The Asian Invasion
My $0.02 on this debate.

First, my background, I have an
Engineering degree, a business degree
and I read Engineering/Technical stuff
and Business, Economics, Politics, Literature
with equal interest and passion.

I worked as an Engineer, Manager, and a Marketing guy.

Here is my experience :

1. You need everyone (Engineering, Sales,
Marketing, Finance etc) to succeed.

2. To be REALLY good at anything : You need
focus, dedication and hardwork.
Networking skills, communication skills
can be big help.

3. Marketing appears to be easy for an Enginner.
But, Good Marketing is not ... To be able
to position something for success, you DO need
good understanding of Technology, Marketplace,
Competitors etc...

4. An Engineer appears to be narrowly focused
for a Marketeer. To be a good Engineer, You
better be deep and focused...on whatever you
are doing. There is no room for error.

5. Asian and American issue : This comes up
too often on this site unfortunately...

There are hardworking Asians AND Americans.
There are LAZY Asians AND Americans.

An american will have some advantage when
it comes to Sales. This has nothing to do
with race, or ethnicity. It has everything to
do with the "Culture" in which he/she
has grown up. What that means is that
a Chinese American or an Indian American
can be equally successfull in Sales (in US)
as an European American.

Please avoid stereotyping and broad

The only thing that is important is to try to
'be good at whatever you are doing'.


brahmos 12/5/2012 | 12:31:48 AM
re: The Asian Invasion I believe 9.9 out of 10 people have to be American in sales. Even if that one were Asian, 0.9% of his personality has to be American to succeed.

> USA + EU is greater than 50% of most product markets. as long as this holds true, americans and europeans will rule the roost on the sales side. being born and brought up in the culture is a big leg-up compared to immigrants in verbal communication and cultural understanding.

However when Asian markets become bigger, asian managers (local) will rule there and rise in prominence. people like qualcomm and motorola for instance have bet their futures on success in asian cell markets. There is no need for american managers there. when the stuff is produced in china and sold mostly in china, why do you need a fat highly overpaid expat to run the show ? Find a chinese guy with the right exp. and degrees and use him.

Most americans will never have any understanding
of asian cultures the way asian managers can. the
expat pashas I have seen doing their annual 'road-trip' from a comfortable HQ to seek the status of the natives havent impressed me.

I dont know about China, but India has some of asias best management schools and lot of
indians study in top american mngmt schools too.
there is no shortage of mngmt talent in india.

as to indians in american mngmt I dont care. whatever is there is just an extra - they are of
no use to india mostly.

p.s BobbyM : who will pay for your social security if not immigrants from latin america and asia ? the 'natives' have fallen below the replacement rate in most developed countries - italy and japan being most severely affected.

So quit the racist blather and learn some mandarin and hindi.

rjmcmahon 12/5/2012 | 12:31:47 AM
re: The Asian Invasion This intolerance and continued propagation of ignorance is intolerable. You can do better. Please try harder. Stop with the discrimination mind set. Instead think about how we can create a world full of opportunities, if only by doing a small part of not making things worse.
Fortunecookie 12/5/2012 | 12:31:47 AM
re: The Asian Invasion The analogy I like to use is a sales person will promise a customer that the sun will rise at midnight if that is what is required to close a deal.

I am appalled to see this. I can't even finish reading your message. You are way beyond stupid. You are a cheater! I am so sick and tired of all this marketing and sales B*shit. It is exactly you guys who ruined the industry.

Why can't you treat your customers, your colleagues, and yourself honestly?!!!!!

Remember, the SUn DOES NOT RISE AT MIDNIGHT. That's just a flat lie!
grateful photon 12/5/2012 | 12:31:46 AM
re: The Asian Invasion
ok...i wasn't going to mention it, but since fortunecookie highlighted the quote:

that's not an analogy! it's a hyperbole. english major?!?!?!

i don't know what you are, english major, marketing whiz, sales genius, mgmt consultant... you tell us, crapshooter, because it's not obvious from your posts.

crapshooter 12/5/2012 | 12:31:45 AM
re: The Asian Invasion FH,

Well said on all accounts. You've expressed things better than I.

ODH 12/5/2012 | 12:31:44 AM
re: The Asian Invasion
BobbyMax wrote:
"America was invaded by Asians since the mid sixties, ..."

If you have read this article, the subject is the opposite. It's "Asia invaded by Americans" with various optical and semiconductor technologies for the manufacuring expertise. The technology and consumption are from America.
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