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2bits 12/4/2012 | 9:09:25 PM
re: Sprint Spurns MPLS for Global VPNs Sprint has a clever way of doing IP-VPN that a few carriers have taken advantage of. They're running IP-VPN over their existing ATM network, which I believe is Nortel based. This gives them ATM-grade QoS and CoS without having to chase MPLS standards or 'evolve' the network.
bsd_devil 12/4/2012 | 9:09:24 PM
re: Sprint Spurns MPLS for Global VPNs SUPERB MOVE. FINALLY THERE ARE SOME TECHIES WHO REALIZE THAT MPLS IS ALL BS. WAY TO GO! LETS ROUT MPLS OUT OF THE NETWORK. ITS USELESS PIECE OF JUNK THAT DOESN'T AND CANNOT WORK. JUST A FEW DAYS BACK I GAVE THE MPLS GROUP AT MY PLACE AN OPTION: SWITCH TO SOME OTHER PROJECT OR LEAVE! EVERYONE SWITCHED HAPPILY AND EAGERLY! ;-)

OK! GOTTA GO INVEST IN SPRINT.
netgenius 12/4/2012 | 9:09:18 PM
re: Sprint Spurns MPLS for Global VPNs 2bits. Partly right, mostly wrong.

Right: Sprint is offering IP enabled Frame relay VPNs over the ATM/Frame network. (the frame edge is Nortel Frame and the ATM core is Marconi/NEC). This passport 7k solution does not scale and will need to be replaced soon. I agree, it is clever and more importantly relatively inexpensive for Sprint to deploy.

Wrong: The IP enabled Frame VPN is a small part of the Sprint IP VPN offering. Sprint offers a wide array of IP based VPNs provided over their SprintLink network (a seperate network from the ATM/Frame network). This article ambiguosly only discusses the SprintLink IP network and I see where you could get confused. The Sprint ATM network is an entirely different story.

The Sprint ATM network is a seperate network from SprintLink (both are part of GMG) that IS being considerd for an MPLS overlay in order to appease customers that insist on IP-VPNs with ATM grade QoS (you would be suprised at how many there are). This would provide Sprint with a scaleable frame and ATM IP-VPN solution with 2547Bis. The author of this article either does not know the Sprint network structure very well or must have thought the title Sprint Spurns MPLS was more catchy than the truth.
fiber_r_us 12/4/2012 | 9:09:17 PM
re: Sprint Spurns MPLS for Global VPNs Thanks netgenius, you beat me to it. I was having a hard time understanding what exactly changed in Sprints offering here:

1) Sprint already has a FR offering with QOS over traditional FR and ATM switches. To call this "IP enabled" seems simply like a marketing term. There is nothing "IP" or MPLS about it. And yes, it makes them money and they are not in a hurry to replace it... yet.

2) Sprint has a separate Internet backbone that uses POS via GSRs. I don't think they offer VPNs directly on this structure. They may offer CPE-based "managed VPN" service where a CPE box does IP tunneling over their Internet backbone.

3) The article mentions that they are using L2TPv3 over a "strait IP network". Over their Internet backbone? Or is this some new IP network?

4) If it is a new network, how is this moving them towards a converged network? Sounds like one more overlay network.

5) "Sprint says its IP VPN service allows for secure remote access, extranet capabilities, and data encryption -- none of which, it claims, are possible with MPLS." Huh?? Secure remote access? Are we talking about dial-up L2VPNs here? Extranet capabilities? What does that mean? Data encryption? Other than IPSEC (which can be done over MPLS or any other technology that IP runs over) how does this get them encryption?
gigeguy 12/4/2012 | 9:09:17 PM
re: Sprint Spurns MPLS for Global VPNs "It is good to see that the voice of reason, as embodied by Peter L, still holds sway at Sprint."

Yeah, right! The only reason that they don't need MPLS traffic engineering on Sprintlink is that they they run it at about 5% utilization. You don't have to worry about congestion or traffic engineering when the router queues are always empty. Peter's answer is to throw money at the problem by running a very inefficient network. Hey, it works if you've got money to burn!
FatherConfessor 12/4/2012 | 9:09:15 PM
re: Sprint Spurns MPLS for Global VPNs If their engineers think L2TP is a better technology than MPLS, they are idiots!
andropat 12/4/2012 | 9:09:15 PM
re: Sprint Spurns MPLS for Global VPNs isn't he done yet... retired or something. what does he mean by "all customers will see is better performance". I can't believe sprint still pays this fool. geeee peter I wonder who is pushing l2tpv3 these days... maybe CISCO. retire already.. you are annoying.
digerato 12/4/2012 | 9:09:13 PM
re: Sprint Spurns MPLS for Global VPNs Sprint's IP VPN service is running over the Sprintlink backbone. The backbone is based on Cisco GSRs with POS. There is no ATM or frame relay involved (whichever Nortel cheerleader that was posting earlier, trying to grab some of the credit -- good effort, but no cigar)

To allow Sprint's customer base to use whatever IP addressing they like, Sprint is using L2TPv3 as the tunneling technology. This encapsulates the frame containing the customer's traffic inside an IP packet. This packet is routed across the Sprintlink core just like any other packet and finds its way to the destination router (an L2TPv3 "LNS") via the usual IP forwarding mechanisms. There, the LNS strips off the IP wapper and delivers the frame safely into the destination customer network.

As someone else pointed out earier, Sprintlink's backbone is massively overbuilt (as most IP backbones tend to be). A feature that MPLS offers that L2TPv3 does not is the ability to control the path of the traffic across the network. That's why MPLS bothers with the label switched path concept. If your IP backbone is largely empty, you don't need that path control because you don't have to care about carefully controlling the traffic paths (i.e. traffic engineering) for the purposes of maximising network utilization and avoiding congestion. So, this is why they didn't use MPL -- they don't need it with this kind of network design.

Whether this is financially viable long term is another matter entirely. Judging by the conversations I've had with people at different levels in carriers regarding the utilization of their IP backbones, there seems to be a major disconnect between the CFO's office and the IP ops / IP engineering teams. The CFO's office wants to minimize overprovisioning to reduce costs, but the IP eng/ops teams are used to desingning networks to be mostly empty most of the time. That's how they're able to offer their service guarantees.

Digerato
fiber_r_us 12/4/2012 | 9:09:13 PM
re: Sprint Spurns MPLS for Global VPNs good description digerato.

So, where is the L2TPv3 tunnel terminated? At the customer CPE? Or is there some new edge device that offers the encapsulation?
broadbandboy 12/4/2012 | 9:09:10 PM
re: Sprint Spurns MPLS for Global VPNs Hold your flames, I know its spelled Cosine, not cosign.

B
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