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technoboy
technoboy
12/5/2012 | 1:54:46 AM
re: Pradeep Sindhu, Juniper Networks
There will always be marketing, sales, and other entities around to hype a technology and there will be people that will believe that a given technology will change the world. These threads began with a discussion on what applications would be enabled by implementing VOIP. I stated a few different applications that I use everyday. Among them were Unified messaging and a presence based application that I use for collaboration purposes. Your view was that neither of these applications were necessary or useful. I happen to disagree and we probably could have saved a lot of typing on this board if we had left it at that.

I further stated that if you look at the carrier offerings for VOIP, there are no off the shelf applications that I am aware of that they will be offering. I know of several customized applications that are leveraging things like SIP/SIMPLE, XML, and SOAP to integrate services to different vertical markets. An example of a customized application that an MSO would deliver is caller ID appearing in the corner of your TV set. You would be able to use your remote to determine how to handle the call.

Going back to the presence application that I use today. If someone calls me and I have rules set so that the person calling can do several things based on who they are. They can simply leave a message or perhaps schedule time on my calendar for a meeting. I can post information on my schedule for the day and make it available to the person that is calling me. I happen to use desktop video with this application when I am working in the office or at home. If the person calling me is video enabled then we can choose to start a voice conversation and add video. Will everyone find these applications useful today? Some people do and some people do not. If it doesnt work for you than you dont have to use it. There is a segment of the population that finds these applications valuable and I suspect that will become increasingly the case.

I will make this point and it is important. As new generations of users emerge they are more technically astute then the previous generation. This is an un-deniable fact. Children today are more apt to instant message and email each other than they are to talk on the phone. They will leverage new modes of communication and they are not challenged such as many of the baby boomers are today. You mentioned video on several of your posts. I happen to agree this will be a big application in the future as well. Quite frankly I dont care if it runs on IP or some new protocol that is developed as long as it provides some value.
technonerd
technonerd
12/5/2012 | 1:54:45 AM
re: Pradeep Sindhu, Juniper Networks
These threads began with a discussion on what applications would be enabled by implementing VOIP. I stated a few different applications that I use everyday. ...
We already debated this. Weren't you satisfied the first time around? As for the hype, the problem is that the propellerheads on this board can't distinguish horseshit from dinner.
dljvjbsl
dljvjbsl
12/5/2012 | 1:54:44 AM
re: Pradeep Sindhu, Juniper Networks
These threads began with a discussion on what applications would be enabled by implementing VOIP. I stated a few different applications that I use everyday. ...

We already debated this. Weren't you satisfied the first time around? As for the hype, the problem is that the propellerheads on this board can't distinguish horseshit from dinner.


The difficulty that he having is that he is trying to discuss the possibilities of IP-enabled applicaions with somebody who does not know the difference between PCM and IP.

As shown above, you reply to any comment that you are unable to understand with abuse.
technoboy
technoboy
12/5/2012 | 1:54:43 AM
re: Pradeep Sindhu, Juniper Networks
Re Post 33

Actually Im glad the nerd responded in this way. It just validates what an unmitigated ass he is!!! I hope that PO and a couple of others read this post and understand why these threads end up degrading into who can top the other guy with the best shit missile.

Tony Li
Tony Li
12/5/2012 | 1:54:42 AM
re: Pradeep Sindhu, Juniper Networks
(But aren't you concerned that the other NetHeads will think you are sounding like a BellHead) ;)
-----------


Not really. My credentials as a NetHead are pretty well established. Maybe if I sound like a BellHead to them, then they will stop and think for a moment.
;)

Tony
technonerd
technonerd
12/5/2012 | 1:54:39 AM
re: Pradeep Sindhu, Juniper Networks
The difficulty that he having is that he is trying to discuss the possibilities of IP-enabled applicaions with somebody who does not know the difference between PCM and IP.
I give technoboy credit for coming up with a specific example, even if it wasn't particularly compelling. None of the other propellerheads around even bother to try, because they know "VoIP" is nothing but a regulatory play.
stephenpcooke
stephenpcooke
12/5/2012 | 1:54:38 AM
re: Pradeep Sindhu, Juniper Networks
Tony,

Your points were excellent!!! I would also suggest that, given your nethead credentials you are far more risk-oriented than most average consumers out there. From what you have said, and what sevenbrooks, I and many others have said about legacy networks, it would seem that we will never be able to create a single ubiquitous technology that suits everyone in all applications. So why even consider new technology in this way?

In my experience in this industry I have very rarely seen anyone, particularly design engineers, who consider what the customer has to go through to implement their new equipment into the customer's existing networks. I personally have found a complete lack of customer 'transition' plans in equipment providers.

We have already gone over the total lack of 'greenfields' applications in this market. When you approach your customer with a neat new technology you have to show them how they can gradually move their old systems to your new ones, that it doesn't have to be all or nothing. This is one of the primary failure modes of startups.

'Bellheads & Netheads' have their own strengths in their own areas. In general, don't ask a Bellhead about packet data networks, don't ask a Nethead about 911 and constant bit rate traffic. What we all have to realize is that it is not just the technology that is different in these two worlds, the customers are also VERY different as well. Assuming that the customers are the ones paying the bills we all have to listen to them or we will all die painful deaths.

Will things progress? Yes, but at a pace that makes sense to the customers, not the design engineers (I have been one). Someone has described that their father still has a rotary dial phone and a TV with rabbitears. Others have described people that were pissed that their party line was removed forcefully. We have seen countless startups fail (for an enormous number of reasons) mainly because their technology was too far ahead of its time for useful mass adoption. The recipe for maximum success has to include a generous portion of meeting the timing of the consumer and providing a non-scary path for getting there.
dljvjbsl
dljvjbsl
12/5/2012 | 1:54:31 AM
re: Pradeep Sindhu, Juniper Networks

None of the other propellerheads around even bother to try, because they know "VoIP" is nothing but a regulatory play.


Given that this is your unshakeable belief, how do you account for the changes taking place in private networks. The manufacturers of these networks are switching to fully IP product lines and cutomers are buying these prodcuts. The traditional TDM (that is PCM to you)product lines are being replaced is being replaced in the market.

How do you accont for this? Are they part of this giant worldwide conspiracy, as well?
Flower
Flower
12/5/2012 | 1:54:24 AM
re: Pradeep Sindhu, Juniper Networks
None of the other propellerheads around even bother to try, because they know "VoIP" is nothing but a regulatory play.

How can you say that. The world is larger than just the US. Regulations are different in each country. Prices and pricing are different. Growth is different. If the RBOCs will succeed in preventing VoIP to happen in the US, VoIP can still be a success in the rest of the world.

And then there is this point I just don't understand. Maybe someone here can explain this to me ?

All discussions about VoIP here are about which technology is better, or whether VoIP will allow the RBOCs to reduce costs.

As a consumer, I don't care for that. As a consumer, voice is just another type of data. I can send email and surf all around the world, for a flat fee. Why o why must I pay per minute when I talk over POTS ? Why does it cost so much more to talk to someone in another country ? If I can send my packets flat-fee over the Internet, why can't I talk all over the world for a flat fee ? I don't want the RBOCs or telcos to bill me based on distance and minutes. I don't want them to keep track of my usage at all.

I was hoping VoIP was going to give me this. Why is nobody talking about this ? Why are you only discussing the benefits of VoIP for telcos ? And not the consumer ?

(And no, I don't care about 99.999% reliability. I don't care about quality. GSM is a huge success, and quality and reliability are not 99.999% neither in GSM. That's proof enough for me that the majority of people are willing to sacrifice a little reliability and quality for something else like mobility and price).
ThurstonHowell3rd
ThurstonHowell3rd
12/5/2012 | 1:54:21 AM
re: Pradeep Sindhu, Juniper Networks
Hey Seven... what are you on drugs. Don't confuse packet network vs. circuit network with public network vs. private network.

I'll type slowly so you can follow - everything will be packetized (i.e. digitized), nothing will run anologue (i.e. circuit). Now for performance, security, reliability yada, yada, yada some of these packets may be part of a private network or public network.

To say those private applications will stay on circuit services is just plain stupid... I'll bet you were a big SNA fan too weren't you?
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