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bitdropper 12/4/2012 | 10:36:58 PM
re: More Layoffs Loom for Struggling Sector "Someone define bottom 5%"
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Boy, fiber_diet, you hit on a really good question. In this particular context, it's probably a lot better that someone from Cisco answers it.

In general though, it's not that difficult to identify the *bottom* 5%. These are usually the employees who are ill-suited to their roles. They are often struggling, for one reason or another. It's usually quite obvious to their managers, peers, and even themselves. The 10% to 20% range gets a lot harder, but the bottom 5% shouldn't be too difficult.

As for being at the mercy of your superior, this foodchain works at all levels. The managers who continually have a high ratio of five-percenters in their care, may just find themselves on that list too.

If you're an employee in such a system, and the only people you see being walked never cause you to question why, the system is probably working. If you're doing your job reasonably well, you won't have to fear the gloom of the cloud, and may even feel pleased that your employer doesn't expect you to carry the non-performers. On the other hand, management by fear and intimidation never works for long.
techdocs 12/4/2012 | 10:36:57 PM
re: More Layoffs Loom for Struggling Sector The 5% you KNOW who they are! As a consultant, Ive been in and out of more than 150 firms within this sector. The Bottom 5% can be found in less than a week of working at any firm. They are OBVIOUS, Cisco's Policy is Correct, and really should be used by Everyone. You take 10 employees and you will find that 3 or 4 do 80% of the work, another 3 or 4 do just enough to coast by, and another 3 or so who are Totally - USELESS. The KING of useless, going to meetings all the time and never getting anything done is Nortel and Lucent. These Two firms will NOT BE HERE a year from now. The Financial numbers are very clear - they are totally Bankrupt, Nortel will go down first, Lucent Second - I have already totally written off MONI. Part of the reason these firms are going under is far too many employees doing far too little. Going from LU or NT and walking into Cisco is like a Time Warp - Cisco has very few Slackers, LU and NT well - its just a total joke. Unless you have seen them from the inside, you would not understand. In the End, there will be Only Cisco, Ciena, JNPR (maybe) and a few other SMALLER players. MONI,LU,NT,ALA - will not be here, dont think so? LOOK AT THE NUMBERS.
Quartz 12/4/2012 | 10:36:57 PM
re: More Layoffs Loom for Struggling Sector I'm afraid it's back to the drawing board for you as you clearly do not know! Cisco's policy is correct?? Yes it would be if Cisco were to apply the policy properly - through the Annual Review reports on each employee.

Unfortunately Cisco do not abide by their own rules at the lower management levels and redundancies not based on "What you know" or "how you perform" but upon "who you know".

Whether you like it or can accept this fact is not important. It is simply the truth.

I am sure at board level they have no idea this is going on and so John Chambers stands up and hand on heart, announces to the world that they are shedding the bottom 5%. If only he really knew the truth and knew is going on deeper down in the ranks.

I know this as my friend was made redudant last year. He has a photocopy of all his annual reviews and each year he scored highly as "Exceeds Expectations". He was not happy (surprise, surprise) because some of the real bottom 5% remained in the company (on something called a PIP?). He could also identify many others who suffered the same fate.

Don't believe me? Ask any honest Cisco employee who knows of someone who has been made redundant from the company in the past 18 months.

Basically, the Cisco bottom 5% stuff is a load of old &^%*%$-ús and the sooner the industry recognises it the better.
owl-light 12/4/2012 | 10:36:56 PM
re: More Layoffs Loom for Struggling Sector Does anyone know any good headhunters?

--------------------------------------

No.
Quartz 12/4/2012 | 10:36:56 PM
re: More Layoffs Loom for Struggling Sector Trust me. It's just Cisco's term for "Redundancy" and yes, they do get rid of some low performers but not always. It's a term I think they should stop using as it is clearly wrong and incorrect (see my other post in this list).

Didn't John Chambers once say when he joined Cisco something like "I have witnessed redundancies in my old company. At Cisco I never want to see or go through that pain again".

Cisco labelling these individuals as the "Bottom 5%" is wrong. What chance do these individuals have of getting another job? They attend an interview and say they were made redundant from Cisco. Immediately the interviewer thinks "not for us - they are the bottom 5% - the low performers".

I am surprised Cisco haven't ended up in court over this.

backnaction 12/4/2012 | 10:36:55 PM
re: More Layoffs Loom for Struggling Sector
Techdocs-
"Going from LU or NT and walking into Cisco is like a Time Warp - Cisco has very few Slackers, LU and NT well - its just a total joke."

=======

You have a definite good point. It needs some elaboration....

(A large part) of the NT culture stem from Bay Networks. Bay bred a culture of ignorance and uselessness. The people who had the brownest noses went up the food chain. Literally, they would just not work or just do "pet projects". At review, they would be reccomended for raises, stock grants, etc...basically the ones that didn't do anything were getting in on the gravy, while the ones that worked pulled their wieght. Uselessness bred more uselessness...and so on. Morale was bad and attrition rampant...good ppl were leaving left and right. What is left are the deadwood that just caused the company to sink...as they are doing now.

NT to purchase Bay was a big mistake and now they are paying for it. Basically NT relied too heavily on Bay for the 'IP expertise' which basically led them nowhere. It was like having the fox watching over the hen-house. Tell me one marketable product (other than switches). The supposed kick-butt "versalar" router project got canned. (need i say more) The useless are still there, because that's the only place that would tolerate that kind of behavior.

My point. Although not the only answer, the
%5 "process" will certainly weed out the useless ones. Just look at NT/Bay...no such policy was implemented and the rest is history. For those that are still there...they know who they are and better pray they don't get the next axe, because it just might.

The NT shareholders can thank 'those individuals' for the pathetic $3.49 stock.
jim_smith 12/4/2012 | 10:36:54 PM
re: More Layoffs Loom for Struggling Sector Intel has been using the 5% policy for quite some
time. It has definitely worked well for them.
(Please don't quote Intel's stock price. The
company is as rock solid as ever and it has
survived many a storm. And part of the reason is
that the management is willing to take tough
decisions that make perfect business sense.)

I think companies owe it to the stockholders to
get rid of the underperformers. Of course the
process of finding the bottom 5% will never be
perfect, but it is much better than letting the
bottom 5% drag down the whole company and its
stockholders.
fsubob 12/4/2012 | 10:36:54 PM
re: More Layoffs Loom for Struggling Sector backnation:

Sounds like NT gave you a package, or were you part of 5%'er group?
sgan201 12/4/2012 | 10:36:52 PM
re: More Layoffs Loom for Struggling Sector Hi,
When a dog barks at you, do you get angry??
What is the difference between that and Cisco labeling some people as the bottom 5% of Cisco??
The bottom 5% of Cisco may turn up to be a top performer of some other company...
If Cisco's management is so good, they will never hire underperformer to begin with.. If they are not, why put any credence on what they say. This to me is an admission of management failure...

By the way, whoever get layoff first has the best severance pay. Just look at the last batch of people at Teligent... They get nothing...
backnaction 12/4/2012 | 10:36:52 PM
re: More Layoffs Loom for Struggling Sector FSUBOB-
"Sounds like NT gave you a package, or were you part of 5%'er group?"

It's more like NT kep the 95% incompotents.

Look...NT (had) the $$$ resources (probably more than other competitive startups), etc..but still couldn't get the acquisitions to build a competitive IP routing platform. That tells me one thing....they just don't have the talent, which ties into how NT is keeping the deadwood and bringing the company to such lowly-states.

My words may or may not spread the reality, but the NT stock price surely reflects the company's competence to the rest of the investing community.
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