Juniper's Marketing Mystery

COMMENTS

Newest First | Oldest First | Threaded View

<< < Page 2 / 10 > >>

jobseeker 12/5/2012 | 4:10:01 AM

re: Juniper's Marketing Mystery I partially agree with UNDERSCORE...... JuniperGÇÖs M40 introduction transitioned not only the core , but was and is a clear alternative to where ever the 7500 GÇô GSR was positioned.

UNDERSCORE, Cisco is the product of many startupGÇÖs so naturally youGÇÖll have IOS, ION, XOR software release. Speaking from a software engineering perspective itGÇÖs not exactly a cake walk porting consistence software release to various hardware platforms, especially older hardware.

Reply | Post Message | MESSAGES LIST | START A BOARD

jobseeker 12/5/2012 | 4:10:01 AM

re: Juniper's Marketing Mystery Yes you are correct.

************************************************

> Juniper was created because the market required
> reliable routing software and to be frank their
> just starting

My recollection is quite different. When juniper was started cisco's high end box was the 7500... GSR being in the works. At the time all IP networks where running on top of ATM because there where no router in the market that could switch IP traffic at the required performance.

Juniper changed this radically and forced cisco out of its slumber... initially with the OC16 card for the GSR which came out just before the M40 (Engine 0 was marketed as oc48 but could just barelly do over oc12... the usual wags where going around calling it the oc16 card).

A few years latter and ATM in the core was history. Effectivly this was big big change...

Hard to find a similar parallel at the moment... there may be opportunities but they are not so visible.

I do happen to agree with you that juniper's potential for competing over cisco is now much more in software than in hardware...

As cisco continutes to make a complete mess of its software. How many different router OSes at the moment ? IOS, ION, XR, BCN, any thing else ? I've lost track. Must have an empire for every senior VP in the land.

It is also unclear if juniper's software advantage over cisco's train wreck has been by design or accidental. Perhaps a bit of both..

***********************************************

They managed to establish a pretty decent model for how to manage software releases from the beginning. On the other hand its quite unclear if they are doing much in terms of evolving the software rather than just adding more and more features (and more bugs along with it). Will it become and unmanagable mess like IOS in the future ? or will they manage to escape that fate and use that their differentiator in the enterprise space ? Place your bets, folks.

Reply | Post Message | MESSAGES LIST | START A BOARD

underscore 12/5/2012 | 4:10:00 AM

re: Juniper's Marketing Mystery > UNDERSCORE, Cisco is the product of many startupGÇÖs > so naturally youGÇÖll have IOS, ION, XOR software
> release.

Neither of the examples above is the product of a startup.

> Speaking from a software engineering perspective
> itGÇÖs not exactly a cake walk porting consistence
> software release to various hardware platforms,
> especially older hardware.

Speak to a service provider or a big enterprise: the number 1 complain about cisco is inconsistency in software. Each platform has its own release train, can't get a consistent set of features across release trains... can't get a consistent set of bugs. I've spoken to one PTT that employes several people that do nothing but track cisco IOS releases... remember that next time you think *your* job sucks.

There is money to be made if you can't fix it... to go back to Scott's generic questions.

_

Reply | Post Message | MESSAGES LIST | START A BOARD

net_dude 12/5/2012 | 4:09:59 AM

re: Juniper's Marketing Mystery yes, you are right.

The fact that they spend billions and 100s of millions for acquisitions is a good thing for the market. Cisco is never afraid of taking risks and Juniper is the same way. They both are good companies.

1) competition from china and Alcatel
2) Margin erosion
3) Service providers losing to content providers who are keen giving everything for free

are some of the dark clouds for both the companies. They both have very solid cash flow. Cisco is definitely is a well oiled marketing machine and Juniper has to learn from them in that aspect.

As to Scott R crying for a marketing message. It does not matter to the customers, probably matters to him.

-C

Reply | Post Message | MESSAGES LIST | START A BOARD

Sisyphus 12/5/2012 | 4:09:59 AM

re: Juniper's Marketing Mystery
There seems to be a wide-spread notion that marketing in high-tech is about PR and some external-facing Powerpoint. I'd contend the more important marketing function in high tech is feeding the right market requirements back into the company and guide product development. It still needs to be shown Juniper's marketing is not doing a good job there - their product still seem solid and seem set in the right direction. Whether the company as a whole is is a different question that has little to do with their marketing arm, and their current track record of being somewhat abrasive with LR is also not necessarily an indication they're negligent when it comes to all outward marketing functions.

The phenomenon of a gap between the executives' grand vision and how it actually translates into visible product strategy is not unique to Juniper.

Also, I think the perception that Cisco throw any more money at marketing than other companies is quite flawed. Their outbound marketing arm is actually very nimble. But also very disciplined, some of their VPs have a reputation for very strict marketing discipline, and I think that is making a difference.

On the whole IOS discussion, I have never been quite sure what the big deal is. It is unrealistic to mexpect the exact same code to run on little SOHO CPE boxes and core routers. Of course there's going to be a slew of different releases when someone has such an extensive product portfolio. The key question is whether the products are good, and whether the software as whole delivers on the features the market expects. Thus long, the answer for the most part seems to be "yes".

I like both Cico and Juniper, they are 2 examples for comapnies that seem to be doing many things right quit consistently and thus set the standard for many others. I would not put my money on any of the 2 slipping badly over the next 2 years. In fact I don't, I own stock (moderate positions) in both. :-)

Reply | Post Message | MESSAGES LIST | START A BOARD

jobseeker 12/5/2012 | 4:09:59 AM

re: Juniper's Marketing Mystery Having worked for SP's and Cisco, I am aware of the problems. What I am saying here ... is Cisco acquire(s) a number of companies and different OSGÇÖs will exist.

The IOS has been maintained for many years and its no secret that scaling was a problem...ie new features conflicts with whatever and consequently a new patch. What do you expect... that software engineers design a flawless OS twenty years ago ? ItGÇÖs virtually impossible. Yes the SP were and are somewhat irritated but at the time there was no competition. Juniper was born and established a good reputation for reliable software. I know were getting off topic but ... oh well.

The marketing position will be filled and I donGÇÖt see it as big obstacle. The company built its reputation on rock solid technology and not necessarily Marketing per say. SP donGÇÖt speak the marketing language that well. On the other hand the VP of Marketing will further its reputation and push more units out the door.

Reply | Post Message | MESSAGES LIST | START A BOARD

brahmos 12/5/2012 | 4:09:59 AM

re: Juniper's Marketing Mystery cisco has made some decent moves in product quality in last 2-3 yrs via internal process changes and is coalescing into 2-3 major release trains for all products. Its not perfect, but managing a gigantic set of customers and tens of products is not easy.
they are doing it lot better than NT/LU did lol.

and the co does have a great depth of veteran & talented engineers to work on emerging problems.

Reply | Post Message | MESSAGES LIST | START A BOARD

jobseeker 12/5/2012 | 4:09:58 AM

re: Juniper's Marketing Mystery Marmoset, name one OS that's not carved from a unix variant ? JUNOS is efficient code,scripted from BSD. What's your point ?

Reply | Post Message | MESSAGES LIST | START A BOARD

marmoset 12/5/2012 | 4:09:58 AM

re: Juniper's Marketing Mystery >jobseeker wrote:
>You canGÇÖt expect Juniper to produce a layer two >switch because LR say so. I think Cisco >competitors are chewing away at their routing >dominance and it takes time for the enterprise, >especially given the market conditions. Cisco >has very good enterprise switches and they sell >well.

I guess you're only partially right ('You canGÇÖt expect Juniper to produce a layer two switch'), for I hear that Jnprs headless marketing m/c is so despo in getting out an L2 SW that its got accton and some comp which sells zebra open source to do oem. Given that Junos itself was carved out of erstwhile Gated code it may not be that much of a new game for/from Jnpr!

Reply | Post Message | MESSAGES LIST | START A BOARD

lightstick 12/5/2012 | 4:09:57 AM

re: Juniper's Marketing Mystery Scott,

Did Juniper cut its ad spending with LR over the last year? If they had cut their spending here, I'd say that would be an important piece of information that, if true, could suggest some unintentional bias on your part.

Reply | Post Message | MESSAGES LIST | START A BOARD

<< < Page 2 / 10 > >>