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gigeguy 12/4/2012 | 9:34:44 PM
re: Juniper/Cisco Duke It Out Over MPLS The routing area directors at the IETF expressed serious concern with BGP overloading at the July IETF meeting. A direct quote from one area director was "Just because BGP is there doesnGÇÖt mean that it should be used as a universal transport mechanism."

The IETF and the majority of the vendors (including Cisco and Nortel) and the SPs that are active in this area are converging on the vkompella/lassarre draft from Kireeti's older brother Vach, which uses BGP for autodiscovery and LDP for label distribution (as discussed in the article). Juniper is pretty much out on their own vs. the rest of the industry on this one.
layer3 12/4/2012 | 9:34:43 PM
re: Juniper/Cisco Duke It Out Over MPLS GÇ£Is BGP a dessert topping and a floor wax?GÇ¥

ROFLMAO...

L3

Belzebutt 12/4/2012 | 9:34:41 PM
re: Juniper/Cisco Duke It Out Over MPLS Maybe these gods have a hidden aggenda -- make the specs so cluttered and big that only a few can understand it fully.


Don't act so surprised... that was the whole point all along.

Make IP extra cluttered, then charge 100K+ salaries to maintain the networks. It's a nice arrangement actually if you're in the IP crowd. Don't rock the boat Jack...
marionetteworks 12/4/2012 | 9:34:40 PM
re: Juniper/Cisco Duke It Out Over MPLS > The IETF and the majority of the vendors
> (including Cisco and Nortel)


What does Nortel have to say about this stuff, what makes them worthy of mention? Are they still pushing CR-LDP?
netskeptic 12/4/2012 | 9:34:38 PM
re: Juniper/Cisco Duke It Out Over MPLS > Make IP extra cluttered, then charge 100K+
> salaries to maintain the networks. It's a nice
> arrangement actually if you're in the IP crowd.
> Don't rock the boat Jack...

Japan was truly succeful applying this principle to whole economy, this is the way to go indeed.

Thanks,

Netskeptic

dudeman 12/4/2012 | 9:34:37 PM
re: Juniper/Cisco Duke It Out Over MPLS Goowey Pie,

What is ROFLMAO? Is that Juniper speak for "BGP"? Hehehe..we are all speaking non-scalably :))

The DudeMan
istarigul 12/4/2012 | 9:34:37 PM
re: Juniper/Cisco Duke It Out Over MPLS >The reason, Yakov and to an extent his protege >Tony Li, have become famous because both of them >worked on BGP at a time when Internet was ?>expanding rapidly. And that required frequent >changes and adjustment to BGP

The both worked on the problems with large scale
networks especiually as they pertain to routing
and addressing. They were by no means limited to
BGP. I think Yakov's first RFC had to do with
TN3270 (hey he was at IBM :)

I've never heard of anyone refering to Tony as
Yakov's protege.

As far as John Moy if you look at his specs you
will see they all have to do with OSPF. That does not mean that this all he knows. That SPF
work has also been applied to number of other
thing esp used as a varient of a interswitch
routing protocol ala cascade switches. I think
John has alot of respect from the community.

However all three of them are different people; how and how much they speak certainly impacts
how "big" they seem.

The reality is that regardless of who is pushing
a protocol it is important to evaluate the
proposal NOT just the person pushing it.
dudeman 12/4/2012 | 9:34:36 PM
re: Juniper/Cisco Duke It Out Over MPLS > Make IP extra cluttered, then charge 100K+
> salaries to maintain the networks. It's a nice
> arrangement actually if you're in the IP crowd.
> Don't rock the boat Jack...

Japan was truly succeful applying this principle to whole economy, this is the way to go indeed.

** DUDESPEAK **
Yeah, that's why Japanes economy is doing so good..NOT! You can only fool people for so long. IP is falling apart at the seams with not everything (technologies such as multicast, encryption, tunneling, etc.etc..) playing together and complexity being waaay too high. Ask any real customer for the pain felt. Nerd knobs aint cutting it no more.

Now, we are talking about vendors pushing Layer2 over Layer3 over Layer2..what the heck is going on!?!?!

Well, some of it makes sense - a lot of it doesn't, like the VPLS and ATM crap. What happened to simple old IP on whatever Layer2? These guys are all out to milk the customers and make a profit and RUN!

Keep it Simple and Profi folks! *sigh*

The Dude
pork 12/4/2012 | 9:34:36 PM
re: Juniper/Cisco Duke It Out Over MPLS Isn't it ironic that Cisco is whing about overloading BGP when they introduced 2547 VPNs and then allowed their marketing folks to "chum the waters" for naive network engineers and SP product marketing types? If anything, 2547 is a bunch of gunk duct-taped together to get an edge on the competition.

As for why Juniper's L2 signaling stuff stinks -- it's because they're using a P2MP protocol (i.e., BGP) to signal P2P circuit information. Employming bitmasks in extended BGP attributes and distributing them in multipoint fashion to signal P2P circuit status certainly introduces scalability concerns in my mind.

As for whether these folks are studs or not, I largely agree that it's more a matter of right place right timing, but knowing these folks personally let's you form your own opinions.
BobbyMax 12/4/2012 | 9:34:35 PM
re: Juniper/Cisco Duke It Out Over MPLS It has been known for a long time that MPLS does not scale very well. In fact, in very large networks MPLS can lead to serious comgestion. To take advantage of some good features, the MPLS deployment could be confined a small part of the network deemed critical.

The prpblem related to MPLS has long been ro RBOCs, that is why there is almost no deployment of MPLS in the RBOCs network.
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