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BlueFox 12/5/2012 | 12:39:56 AM
re: Headcount: Miller's Oranges Working for a start-up is like working as a contractor but with less pay and same uncertainty. When you finish your piece, it is likely that you will get layoff while the company is waiting .....

This is especially true for the hardware engineers. The hardware is usually done way before sales start, so the company whacks the hardware engineering department. I have seen this over and over. It makes me wonder why a hardware engineer would even consider a startup since the odds are they will be whacked long before the company IPOs.

Even in established companies, once the hardware is done many times there are "adjustments" made to the hardware team. Hardware always seems to get the shaft more than other groups.
horse of a different color 12/5/2012 | 12:39:54 AM
re: Headcount: Miller's Oranges lightsplitter said...
"If and when the employment situation improves, many employees will jump ship since they are way undervalued when compared to their coworkers."

This will be the really interesting part. There are 2 things worth looking at - 1. What will the existing employees (now being treated unfairly) do when the job market recovers? and 2. Where will those qualified people now on the street go? How much abuse will people take? Probably a lot if your livelyhood is at stake and there are no alternatives. Shame on the corporate pukes.

If there is one thing that most companies seem to have lost sight of, it's the people. They cry, "We will do whatever we can to "extend the runway"." Unfortunately this seems to be at the expense of the very people doing the majority of the work. They either get laid off, or those "lucky few" who remain get worked into the ground, and in mnay case for less money. I'm beginning to think that those laid off are the "lucky ones".

I'm now out of telecom (actually high-tech altogether), but I still look for high-tech/telecom job opportunities in the background. After all, I have MANY years experience that could prove to have some value somewhere. It's where I am most valuable and most comfortable...which is why I probably got laid off. I'll admit it - I got complacent and refused to play the corporate game. An error in judgement and timing on my part...but I would bet that I'm not the only one.

I just hope that those "good people" out there either still employed or looking are successful in finding something. As for me, the road less traveled is what I'm on...headed for who knows where.

jamesbond 12/5/2012 | 12:39:54 AM
re: Headcount: Miller's Oranges So, net-net, this should come as no surprise if the Fins are done with their wireline access experiment and associated losses.


Umm no. They are going to experiment with
RedBack next, fail miserably and then give up.

crapshooter 12/5/2012 | 12:39:53 AM
re: Headcount: Miller's Oranges When I started this thread, I mentioned that I am looking to get out of telecom altogether. Like "horse of a different color," this is where I am most valuable, too, but my recent situation has soured me.

I know MANY co-workers that are looking to at least get out of our current snakepit. One thing I have heard over and over from them (and is something to keep in mind for how employees will react when things get better) is that they (myself included) don't care about burning this bridge. We do not intend to give 5 minutes notice before we leave. We've been treated like dirt and we're going to see how senior management feels when the shoe is on the other foot.

Now, all we need to do is find new jobs........
Pet A Luma 12/5/2012 | 12:39:48 AM
re: Headcount: Miller's Oranges It's Santa Rosa, not Rohnert Park and to say that the Diamond Lane DSLAM had ZERO success in the US is unfair as they did have significant sales to COVAD. I believe COVAD still uses their equipment. Not saying that is a big deal just more than ZERO.

lightbeer 12/5/2012 | 12:39:22 AM
re: Headcount: Miller's Oranges Hey Horse,

You have been thinking the same as I. This market will improve one day and then what will employers do to rebuild employee moral. Maybe startups are not quite a dead idea after all! With the employees of all the large telecoms seeing the top management getting rich even in this down cycle it might light a fire under them to go start their own enterprises.

One can look to another industry (aerospace) that had its own bubble 15 years ago to draw some conclusions. This industry was pumped up by the Reagan golden years and came crashing down just like telecom. Many workers lost their jobs and abandoned the industry in droves to other industries including telecom. Now fast forward 15 years and what do we see 1) Massive consolidation leaving Boeing and Lockheed/Martin standing and swallowing McDonnell Douglas, General Dynamics, Grumman, etc. 2) A giant hole in the work force with a shortage of workers in the 30 to 45 year old range (prime years of productivity).

What does this say about the future of telecom? Maybe nothing. It is a different industry with different dynamics. But people are people and just like aerospace many qualified people are leaving telecom for better opportunities. Some of these people might return if times get better but a word to all you employers out there "Don't count on it".

I know because I am a aerospace refuge that came over to telecom for a better future. Boy was I wrong:) Anyway, I have many experienced colleagues in Telecom and Aerospace who left both industries, never to return. This may turn out to be nothing but a minor inconvience to future telecom HR managers or it could turn out to be a major problem. But right now telecom executives are not concerned because they can only see one to two quarters down the road and it will be someone elseGÇÖs problem if it happens.

Future telecom executives, HR managers, and head hunters are probably already thinking about ways to bring back the talent. Bigger salaries, signing bonuses, and (gag) stock options. If this doesn't work lobby congress like mad to open up the H1B program (note. please don't use this to start up another stupid thread on H1Bs). One thing is for certain though the industry will not be better off because these talented and EXPERIENCE individuals left the industry forever. If you think different talk to anyone working in the aerospace industry and hear what a lack of experienced individuals is doing there. Many wheels are being reinvented due to the lack of experience.

I once again moved on to another industry to find better opportunities. Thankfully, I have both an Engineering and Marketing background in other fields to fall back on. I am in a new industry now, Power Generation, and I like it a lot. This will be my 5th industry I have worked in which normally would mean a fragmented low paying career, but this is not the case. I bring new ways of thinking to every industry I go to and if one is down I have experience to go to another. The lesson here is that in the future this will be the norm rather than the exception.

For now I am working hard and waiting for the day when the consulting firms start hiring again, so I can go work for one of the big six(?)[not sure how many of these guys will be left after their consolidation] and get paid big bucks to consult Future Telecom Executive Ass*oles on how to make their sorry companies perform better.

Keep Drinkin,

flim-flam 12/5/2012 | 12:39:15 AM
re: Headcount: Miller's Oranges Ginsburg is a fool and a liar. The most accurate depiction of where they stand can be going and looking at one of their earliest investors, Bessemer Venture Partners, and looking at their portfolio.

You'll note that Allegro is no longer listed - and this is a very recent change.

Bye bye ginsburg... bye bye allegro.
fairhearing 12/5/2012 | 12:39:14 AM
re: Headcount: Miller's Oranges
It would be helpful if you can describe
your experience regarding changing industries.

i. What helped you ?

ii. Did you get any help from friends in the other
industry ?
iii. How about Salary and responsibilities ? Did
you compromise ?

dbostan 12/5/2012 | 12:39:14 AM
re: Headcount: Miller's Oranges I worked with Dave Ginsburg at Allegro and he never gave me the impression that he is a "fool and a liar".
Regarding Allegro, I would be very saddened to see it going.
The technology developed there is without rival.
lowlight 12/5/2012 | 12:39:11 AM
re: Headcount: Miller's Oranges i never worked with Ginsburg directly, i was in the engineering side of things. i certainly didn't hear good things about him, but like i said i didn't work with him.

as for the tech, it was pretty solid when i left. sure it wasn't ready to deploy at that time (can't say now being that i was laid off in july) but we were on the right track and making great progress.

its sad to see bessemer pulling out like that. a lot of great people (not all of them mind you), great technology, and really crappy timing. i'll always be proud of what we built there.

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