re: Foreign Workers Sit Tight>The alternative is even more unfortunate. There >are other ways of dealing with the problem of >"anchor babies" (if it is even a problem worth >worrying about) besides changing basic US >immigration law.
re: Foreign Workers Sit Tight"the threads on this link are predictably degenerate, sometimes racist, sometimes intolerant, little to do with the development and deployment of next generation optical networks.
why encourage this thread with an article that invariably will feed this kind of discussion."
This has everything to do with the deployment of next generation optical networks. The US citizen labor pool alone is not capable of supplying enough quality workers to meet the needs of Corporations. Visit any Hightech company in Silicon Valley and you will see many faces from many countries. This is not because companies wish to hire people from other countries. ItGÇÖs simply because the talent is not thereGǪ I have found the discussion on this thread very interesting. It has given people a chance to either show their frustration with the system, or support it. My final thoughts on this topic are straightforward and simple: H1B visas(when there truly is a need for them)= good for AmericaGÇÖs companies, promotes cultural diversity. H1B visa holders= many, if not most abuse the system and take advantage of a poorly policed process. They simply do not plan to leave and thatGÇÖs not part of the deal.
re: Foreign Workers Sit Tight As far as layoffs go, I haven't seen layoffs done by visa status. I have seen that people are reluctant to hire new/transfer H1B's.
H1B's address a shortage of workers. These workers are entirely necessary. In my experience, H1B's are not necessarily better or worse (including programming in C++) than than US citizens or permanent residents.
While I support the H1B program, I have 2 major criticisms about the H1B situation.
The first is that the H1B program is supposed to be a temporary solution. The US has 280 million people, the problem is that we are not training the people we do have. We have plenty of smart people. We just aren't attracting/educating them to/for high-tech.
The second is that in general we (being the industry) have been a little too PC on the language issue. As a customer and a supplier, I've had tremendous difficulty dealing with certain organizations in the US due to language barriers. These difficulties have translated into unnecessary delays and misundertandings. This costs money folks!
Finally, top perfomers will have work regardless of visa status.
IMHO, the best way is to come here for graduate school and "prove yourself" by using your work permit."
This link is hilarious!! The PhDs, Engineers and Scientists are a "specialty occupation" but Fashion Models get mentioned specifically!
I have worked with many aliens and enjoyed their company immensely. I don't have any answers either but what about the well being of the countries that spend the money to educate their best and brightest only to have them come to the US for graduate school and never go home to apply their talents for the good of that country? Sure, the capital isn't there to make the most use of their talents but perhaps this is why there is such resentment of the US abroad?
re: Foreign Workers Sit Tight>>Is there any evidence that H1Bs keep salaries down?<<
Any "evidence" you might see either way could reflect the bias of whomever or whatever organization sponsored the study. It is possible, albeit difficult, to find a good unbiased researcher on this topic. (I can't imagine the tech lobby producing an unbiased survey).
On the one hand, H1Bs keep salaries down in the sense that, filling open positions may require enticing qualified US-citizen employees with ridiculously high salaries. (If laser physicists were paid $2 M / year--guarunteed with no stock options involved here--out of graduate school, you'd see a lot more US citizens in graduate physics programs in the long run). By allowing for more H1Bs, the supply of labor is increased and the law of supply and demand instructs us that the price paid for that labor will be lower. This would mean lower engineering salaries in those disciplines. (Of course, if you believe that US students are intrinsically stupid, pot-smoking dolts then you would dispute my contention that the higher salaries would draw US citizens into the "right" disciplines. You might also watch that Fox show "Undeclared" to bolster your opinion. :) )
On the other hand, other points to consider include asking if there any qualified individuals available in the near term (next 1-5 years)? Also, having "cheaper" good engineers in one subset of engineering makes for competitive companies, which provides more jobs in other engineering fields such as electronics and product management. Without the ability to quickly fill positions in a specialty field (software, laser optics), whole companies may not be competitive, possibly leading to fewer engineering jobs and lower salaries collectively for engineering as a whole. In such a scenario, while it is possible engineering salaries would be lower, it is more certain that there would be fewer marketing, finance, and legal jobs.
My opinion is that the H1B program is a tool for US businesses, and a key as to US-based companies being competitive. As far as what it does to salaries, I would say that on balance it is positive, not only for non-engineering fields but engineering as well. The only evidence I might point to is that the last few years have seen a rapid escalation in salaries for US-citizen engineers in technology fields. These engineers had the right education and work experience.
When the larger public looks at this issue, they may see unfairness because they might not understand how specialized engineering is. Just saying "engineer" is pretty meaningless; for instance, many automotive engineers don't have the right background and cannot get into technology fields. Many aerospace engineers have skills that cannot transfer, except those lucky few who have RF IC experience (notice all the quality Comm IC firms in the LA area?) If an engineer wants to go back to school for several years, they might then obtain the correct background--but be wary, by the time you get out it may be the wrong thing again, and it will be back to school again!
re: Foreign Workers Sit TightMaybe you should contact your Senator or Congressman and ask them to reverse the Immigration Policy instead of harping on this Board.
re: Foreign Workers Sit TightI think those who hint on the weakness of American public school education as the reason to justify H1B program are those arrogant snobs who were lucky to study in top-notch high-schools in top cities and to graduate from the best technical universities of their home countries. They saw only brilliant young schoolmates around them and assume that is the average for their country. They usually know jack about the level of graduates from third-rate university in their province, and yet come forward with large claims about two educational systems. Truth is, most countries (Russia, India, China, France, GB, etc.) tend to concentrate education at selected centers, while US engaged in much tougher task of decentralizing education. Each approach has advantages and disadvantages.
Next thing, the disproportion of H1B and american fires. To me, it is a natural consequence of the place where H1B program is executed. Let me explain. In every country there are two types of engineers: one (GÇ£passiveGÇ¥) tends to work on a task given to them, while the second (GÇ£activeGÇ¥) tends to look outside the task in search of better alternative solutions, improvements, optimization, etc (you get the idea). My claim is that most H1Bs are the GÇ£activeGÇ¥ type, because even finding the job in the US, having guts to move into unknown, and beating a few competitors on the way says already a lot about personGÇÖs attitude, how initiative, adaptable, and GÇ£outlookingGÇ¥ he is. When a company has to trim its workforce, naturally it tries to keep the GÇ£activeGÇ¥ engineers, because they usually have the real GÇ£know-howGÇ¥ and they have more chances of delivering a competitive product. That is why many fired GÇ£passiveGÇ¥ engineers are americans, because GÇ£passiveGÇ¥ foreigners never got here in the first place. They are still back at home, envying GÇ£luckierGÇ¥ ones and not willing to actively change things around them.
I know, this is not a general rule, and lots of brainy folks were fired regardless of their personal quality but rather with the whole department. But most managers in GÇ£keptGÇ¥ departments are very well aware of who in their team is crucial for the product delivery and who is not.
And those "other ways" are?