Foreign Worker Poll Points to Paradox

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rjmcmahon 12/4/2012 | 11:35:50 PM

re: Foreign Worker Poll Points to Paradox What caused the salary disparity [between doctors, lawyers, and engineers]?

my $0.02

I look at it from the perspective of what is lost if the service was taken away. No doctor and one will lose their health. No lawyer and one will lose their freedom or their wealth. No engineer and one will lose their computer or their game console.

The other challenge tech faces is that it's fundamentally an efficiency play which drives deflationary pressures. Those are tough sales in many respects.

On the MBAs' pay; many seem to be account bureaucrats in today's modern form of human organization called corporate trusts (or equivalent holding "company"). They live closer to the stored wealth which allows for larger portions of that cream to be skimmed.

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rjmcmahon 12/4/2012 | 11:35:49 PM

re: Foreign Worker Poll Points to Paradox To some extent, we all are underpaid cheap labor. We, engineers, make the world work, but our brains (do we really have brains?) and hard work have been ripped off.

If making money is the goal, one will need to study money, either formally or informally.

PS. A good car salesman makes more money than many doctors, lawyers or engineers. A good small business owner makes even more than that.

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rjmcmahon 12/4/2012 | 11:35:49 PM

re: Foreign Worker Poll Points to Paradox I'm totally with you that concerned U.S. engineers should organize a lobby.

No revenue stream, no lobby. Find the revenue streams first.

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techoriginol 12/4/2012 | 11:35:49 PM

re: Foreign Worker Poll Points to Paradox I look at it from the perspective of what is lost if the service was taken away. No doctor and one will lose their health. No lawyer and one will lose their freedom or their wealth. No engineer and one will lose their computer or their game console.

You got it all wrong.

No engineer and one looses their house current, their waste water treatment facilities, their telephones, car and highways.

No teacher and one looses the education they need to become doctors, lawyers, engineers etc.

No high paid atheletes or spoiled movie stars and... one makes due with college sports and theatre - much better caliber performers making a lot less.

No truck drivers or farmers and we don't eat.

No CEOs/CFOs/CTOs. Heck. Offer a teenage girl the job for a couple of Nelly tickets and she'll do the job probably just as well as these fat-cat CEOs making 50 million a year while they rape the shareholders and 401K pensioners.

Salary discrepancies ... totally messed up in America. Don't you just love it.

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rjmcmahon 12/4/2012 | 11:35:48 PM

re: Foreign Worker Poll Points to Paradox You got it all wrong.

No engineer and one loses their house current, their waste water treatment facilities, their telephones, car and highways.

Good for you. You're one of the too few who seem to understand.

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WhereIsTheNextStartUp 12/4/2012 | 11:35:47 PM

re: Foreign Worker Poll Points to Paradox In all this debate, we need to realize that we, engineers, created the Internet. We helped in globalization and the spread of information. Our own work has created our own demise. It is like the British helping trade around the world, but eventually loosing in the long run.

I hate to say it, but we have changed the world and we have to live with it. Jobs are going to go where labor and quality of work is cheaper which is out of America.

In my opinion, we have a few choices.
1) Becomes a sales guy or an applications engineer. You will always need locals here to sell or deal with local problems.
2) Join the service industry. People in America will pay for some basic services, like a small business or a mechanic. Some services need to be done here, find them and learn to live with what happens.
3) Join a startup with a really cutting edge idea. You have to take big risk on something new that has to radically change how things work and cost 1/10 the amount as before.
4) Assume that any coding, design and/or research will be done else where. This is my choice. We have to become top level organizers and "advisors" to local management who always need someone they trust.

These are my basic thought and the direction I believe we have to accept. Any ideas anyone?

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hanman 12/4/2012 | 11:35:46 PM

re: Foreign Worker Poll Points to Paradox Atmguy,
Sorry to disappoint you. I am not the kind
you are thinking.

Hanman:
I bet you are a H1B holder!

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fairhearing 12/4/2012 | 11:35:46 PM

re: Foreign Worker Poll Points to Paradox
FC,
I donot agree with your views on
MBA Vs JD Vs MD Vs Engineering degree.

Let me say that I have BS in EE, MS in CS
and an MBA. I like Engineering problems but
I am quite comfortable in straddling the
fences here.

I have a number of family members and close
relatives who MDs and Specialists.

From this experience, here are my $0.02

1. In my book, no degree is a joke, Each has
its own difficuly. For me, it is the
knowledge gained, skills achieved that
are as important as having a piece of
paper (certificate) at the end.

2. From what I have seen, to be an MD and a
specialist, it takes so much more effort
than any other degree including PhD.
An average internist doesn't make more than
120 to 150K. Even most specialists donot
make more than 200 to 250K.

The very good ones make more than that.
These are top of the league and generally
enterprenuerial.

Most physicians work really hard. Try
spending a 36 Hr rotation with a training
Resident or Fellow in your local hospital.

So, the truth is the hard working
Enterprenuerial folks do very well
whether they have a JD, MD or MBA or
MSEE/PhD

3. Even I used to think MBA is a joke. It
took a while for me to realize that
it needs a different skill set. For you
and me,it may appear as BS, but Language
skills, Management skills, Marketing
skills, Financial skills are nothing to
belittle.

4. Regarding JD : I donot have first hand
experience. I heard from others that
for every successful one, there are many
who are just getting by. But , I know
enough that it is not easy to make
Harvard, Yale Law reviews.. I hear that
clerking for a Judge or a SC Justice
is not a walk in the park either

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rjmcmahon 12/4/2012 | 11:35:45 PM

re: Foreign Worker Poll Points to Paradox In all this debate, we need to realize that we, engineers, created the Internet. We helped in globalization and the spread of information. Our own work has created our own demise. It is like the British helping trade around the world, but eventually loosing in the long run.

Engineers didn't create the value behind the internet. The internet's value is derived from its users. So let's not take credit for the works of others.

Controlling the spread of information will not make anybody stronger or safer. It will be the application of knowledge and spread of human civility which will assist in bringing wealth and peace to our world. One barrier to that is communications, a communications which brings forth understanding.

Engineers career problems are we don't have a platform to perform and distribute our works. Bill Gates gives us a junky PC and a game consoles and thinks that's enough. The phone companies don't hire engineers, instead they hire lobbists and they give us such crummy access that we have to use junky MODEMs. Similar with the cable cos.

Think of it like a doctor who has no hospital and office and has to walk miles to treat his patients. Or an auto designer in a society which has no roads. Or power engineer with no elecritical transmission. A pilot with no airports. A car salesman with no auto dealership. An insurance saleman with no business cards. A priest with no parish.

How could any of them do their jobs?

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AMngr 12/4/2012 | 11:35:44 PM

re: Foreign Worker Poll Points to Paradox US telecoms group Motorola is to hire more people in India to make it a research and technology hub, a report said Wednesday.

Motorola chief Mike S Zafirovski said he was hoping to save money by shifting work to India which has a large pool of highly-skilled engineers.

"I cannot give you any numbers but we are looking at doubling our revenues in India, adding to the 1,500 employees and investing in engineering and software resources," said Zafirovski, who was to address a press conference later Wednesday.

"We understand the business process outsourcing advantage that India has and we will enter this space directly or through tie-ups with Indian companies," he added.

Zafirovski told the newspaper Motorola had reduced costs by four billion dollars by outsourcing work in the past four years and planned to reduce costs further by another three billion dollars.

"I see a saving of a billion dollars each through engineering effectiveness, procurement and the very cost of poor quality. I want to achieve these goals by 2005," said Zafirovski.

"I am vigorously driving this and I am sure a part of this can be outsourced from India. Research and development is obviously headed here."

According to industry sources, Zafirovski is in India because he was impressed by a presentation made by one of his employees -- Pramod Saxena, the chief of Motorola India.

In June, Saxena travelled to Chicago to make a three-point presentation before the Motorola board revolving around increasing mobile handset sales in India and cashing in on India's business process outsourcing strength and skilled engineers.

Motorola Inc. is now looking to countries like India and China to shore up its sagging bottom line. In July, Motorola said it had emerged from the red in the second quarter of 2003 but sales had slumped. It reported a net profit of 119 million dollars in the three months to June, emerging from a year-earlier loss of 2.32 billion dollars.

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