Force10: Where's the Exit?

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RDV 12/5/2012 | 3:16:14 AM

re: Force10: Where's the Exit? Sorry, you say that Force10 has a solution for enterprise if they merged with Aruba?

What enterprise do you work for? The price of these boxes, when large density 10/100/1000 is required - i.e. wiring closet - is astronomical, and their stackable switch is not large enough density to take the market by storm.

They are niche players, both Aruba and F10, with F10 looking mainly at areas such as research and education with a few high-end Enterprise core's but no solid Edge story.

I honestly think someone should look at buying their tech - from what I hear they have an interesting roadmap which skips 40G interfaces - in the same way Cisco did Procket. Can't see them being bought by Juniper though, they don't have sufficient traction in Enterprise to justify that cost ($300 M)...

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truthteller99 12/5/2012 | 3:16:12 AM

re: Force10: Where's the Exit? Ha, Ha
"F10 has a CEO, who loves his weekends so much that he has his car registration, which says it all."

CEO Play while lowly staff work. CEO very out of touch with staff. No tell him truth.

You forget mention of VP of Operation who do not know operation, listen to Director of Material who do not know material. They bad descision cause engineer to be laid off.

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tsat 12/5/2012 | 3:16:11 AM

re: Force10: Where's the Exit?
Don't get me wrong. I have very good Indian friends. Even they dont like to work for an Indian Manager. Infact, they loathe.

----

I am a white guy. California native. All my engineering managers are Indian. I think they are all pretty cool. Smart, driven, but laid back too. They all give me a ton of respect as an engineer.

I've had plenty of horrible white managers, thats for sure.

You should not make such sweeping racial generalizations.

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OpticalHannibal 12/5/2012 | 3:16:11 AM

re: Force10: Where's the Exit? >>> You forget mention of VP of Operation who do not know operation, listen to Director of Material who do not know material

Sorry, I thought VP of operations is a contractor. Hmmm, I didn't know he is a full time employee.

haNNibal

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OpticalHannibal 12/5/2012 | 3:16:11 AM

re: Force10: Where's the Exit? >>>> I am a white guy. California native. All my engineering managers are Indian. I think they are all pretty cool. Smart, driven, but laid back too. They all give me a ton of respect as an engineer.

There could be a few pockets of good people, I dont deny and may be you are lucky to be there.

You need to be at F10, to get authentic South-East experience. May be birds of same feathers landed up in F10. I dont know.

No doubt, these guys are very savvy and have best survival instincts. The way they treat white guys(they are scared of discrimination law suits etc.,) is quite different from the way they treat an Indian. To large extent, they behave carefully with white guys and show their true color while dealing with their own people. That's the reason they hire people from their own ethinicity than a White, because they have lot more control over them, which they cant with a white. If a white guy gets a call from a Manager at 1.00AM for some status, which is the norm in F10, one would say "screw you".

But an Indian guy not only answers it, but may turn up to work, if asked to. It happned quite a few times. As I said these guys are very savvy. The way they treat a white guy is different the way they treat an Indian or a Chinese.

I had, not too many great experiences with them, but the way they treat Indians is real bad. Many Indian friends tell me that & I have seen it all.

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OpticOm 12/5/2012 | 3:16:10 AM

re: Force10: Where's the Exit? I think the H1B visa is to blame, for the most part, for the slave-owner behaviour in some companies.
When you are here on an H1B visa, and need your manager's approval for your green card application, try not to be responsive and see what is happening.
This type of visa is profoundly immoral, as it creates virtual slavery for the visa holders and it eliminates indigenous people (who learned the rules of the game long time ago).
And the hiring practice of hiring "your own" is eating the morale and competitiveness in SV's companies, like a cancer.
And, yes, it is true that start-ups are more prone to things like that.
I have my own share of horror companies...

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volkot 12/5/2012 | 3:16:09 AM

re: Force10: Where's the Exit?
After reading so many posts on H1Bs, I still do not believe that most people understand the issue well.

First and foremost, H1B is in no way related to the green card. It is a great misfortune that US immigration law is so crooked and twisted in logic that it only allows immigration based on the labor cert process that lasts many years and can be broken by the slightest changes, such as job title or a company name.
An employee does not need to have an H1B for the job cert, but practically speaking no company would care about waiting for few years to fill a position. Thats how the whole pain of H1B comes into existence, locking people in temporary visas while offering them a very ephemeral hope for the fully-fledged residence status.

This effectively means the current law promotes family, political and non-bona fide labor cert immigration while creating huge obsctacles to best professionals who tend to be promoted and change their companies fast.

So I would not be shy to say that it is not the H1B, but the immigration process that makes the things so bad because whoever invented is was a braindead pervert.

USA needs and will need talented people and there is only one universally accepted way to measure the talent. That is, the compensation.

If any H1B holder would be automatically entitled for a green card after paying XXX thousand dollars in taxes to US government, the issue of slavery would virtually cease to exist because no one would have to worry about accepting low salaries, pleasing their managers or staying locked in the deadend positions.

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RTL Rules 12/5/2012 | 3:16:09 AM

re: Force10: Where's the Exit? I generally found that H1-B holders had better experience than US citizens in the specific technical areas I needed handled. (And believe me, I've see mounds of resumes.) This observation may only apply certain hi-tech areas, of course.

It seems ironic to me - foreign nationals in the US gaining better technical experience that US citizens, then showing they have experience that can't be duplicated - viola! H1-B justification.

And as far as the slave owner thing goes - if you're merely an employee in a startup you're a slave. Your nationality doesn't matter. (Now, you may get rich eventually, of course. Ha, ha, ha!)

RTL

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keelhaul42 12/5/2012 | 3:16:09 AM

re: Force10: Where's the Exit? >>I generally found that H1-B holders had better experience than US citizens in the specific technical areas I needed handled. (And believe me, I've see mounds of resumes.) This observation may only apply certain hi-tech areas, of course.
>>
That is decidedly not my experience. I don't mean to cast aspersions on anyone's talents but the primary attractive attributes of H1B visa holders are:
- price: they'll work for less than their citizen/resident counterparts
- pliability: they will, as someone elsewhere noted, answer the telephone at 2AM and come in to work if asked.
The reasons for this are straightforward as others have noted.

Yes, there are some very talented people who have come here on H1B visas. Are there tens of thousands of such supremely talented people coming here on H1B visas each and every year? No way. Don't even think about trying that con job.

Do (e.g.) Intel, Microsoft, et al treat their H1B visa holders better? Maybe, but they are as quick as anyone to exploit the H1B law to keep their employee costs down.
The H1B visa law may be the most abused federal statute since the Volstead Act.

Am I in favor of bringing talented people to the US? Absolutely. I'm also in favor of their prospective employers being candid about their reasons -- especially as they continue to whine that not enough Americans study engineering and the home grown talent pool is insufficient.
I'm willing to bet that Messrs Gates, Barrett, et al would change their minds very quickly about importing engineers if the law were changed so that employment would not be a condition for obtaining a green card.

Any takers?

-kh

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marete 12/5/2012 | 3:16:08 AM

re: Force10: Where's the Exit? RULES REQUIRE U.S. MASTER'S DEGREE; BUSINESS GROUPS, VALLEY ARE PLEASED

By Karl Schoenberger

Mercury News

In a move that will be welcomed by Silicon Valley companies, immigration authorities have reversed a controversial interpretation of new legislation on foreign workers that would have shrunk the number of visas for highly educated technology workers.

The U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services caused a furor in March when the agency said it would not require higher educational standards from applicants for the 20,000 H-1B visas Congress set aside for workers with advanced degrees from U.S. universities.

Those visas were on top of the 65,000 annual limit for ordinary H-1B visa applications, which require only bachelor's degrees from skilled guest workers.

But the agency quietly disclosed in a notice on its Web site Wednesday that it had reversed its decision and that qualified applicants for the 20,000 additional H-1B visas should have a ``minimum master's level degree from a U.S. academic institution.'' The notice said USCIS would begin taking applications on May 12 -- two months behind schedule.

``It was the right thing to do and the best thing to do,'' said Sandra Boyd, chair of the pro-business group Compete America, which lobbied Congress to expand the H-1B cap with extra visas reserved for applicants holding advanced U.S. degrees. ``The agency certainly heard from us, and they heard from members of Congress. I don't know if there was anyone on the other side of the issue.''

Critics allege that the immigration agency initially gave a loose interpretation to the H-1B Visa Reform Act of 2004 because it had mistakenly accepted as many as 10,000 too many applications for the current fiscal year's 65,000 regular H-1B visas and needed to find slots for those workers. But agency spokesman Chris Bently said Thursday the two issues were never related, and that the USCIS has improved its counting mechanisms to prevent granting visas beyond the annual cap.

The delay in implementation of the legislation, which passed Congress in November, has caused disruption in hiring plans for many companies in Silicon Valley and placed students in limbo.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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