Force10: Where's the Exit?

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ironccie 12/5/2012 | 3:15:22 AM

re: Force10: Where's the Exit? Reality? Reality is that my budget for networking hardware/software is almost 10 million in 2005 and not a penny of that is for F10. The cold harsh reality. Cisco, Foundry, Checkpoint (Zonelabs), RedHat, Buffalo, Microsoft, Dell, and a few other small frys will get their share. I'm thinking about taking a look at Delta now.

Reality is that F10 S50 = merchant silicon and merchant complete OEM platform from Detla. That is reality. Good news here is that at least Delta has predictable jitter and better latency. Perhaps the big news this summer will be Delta buying F10 or Juniper buying Delta.

Reality is that you probrably work for F10. Sure wish LR had a vendor filter.

IronCCIE

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adaptation 12/5/2012 | 3:15:22 AM

re: Force10: Where's the Exit? BigIron RX = merchant silicon

Nuff said about that really.

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the.cannibal 12/5/2012 | 3:15:21 AM

re: Force10: Where's the Exit? Am I the only one who finds it amusing that ironccie doesn't mind merchant silicon in the core, but has a problem with it at the edge?

::the.cannibal::

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zpman 12/5/2012 | 3:15:20 AM

re: Force10: Where's the Exit? back to pros and cons of flow based forwarding:

wouldn't get a Foundry based service into problems as soon as there is a random flow producing DoS attack? How to they sepreate the 'good flows' from the 'bad' ones?

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ironccie 12/5/2012 | 3:15:20 AM

re: Force10: Where's the Exit? >back to pros and cons of flow based forwarding:

We don't use Foundry flow based arechitecture. We use Foundry Direct Routing which programs the aggregates in CAM.

>wouldn't get a Foundry based service into problems as soon as >there is a random flow producing DoS attack? How to they >sepreate the 'good flows' from the 'bad' ones?

Not applicable.

IronCCIE

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zpman 12/5/2012 | 3:15:19 AM

re: Force10: Where's the Exit? if you have a look at

http:/www.webhostingtalk.com/a...

user jsw6 argues that Foundry's behavior comes now (by the introduction of JetCore) close to a prefix based system but it is still a flow based one.
He uses Foundry links for his argumentation.

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ironccie 12/5/2012 | 3:15:19 AM

re: Force10: Where's the Exit? Also we use Sup720-3BXL's and plan to buy more of those too.

IronCCIE

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ironccie 12/5/2012 | 3:15:19 AM

re: Force10: Where's the Exit? >Am I the only one who finds it amusing that ironccie doesn't >mind merchant silicon in the core, but has a problem with it at >the edge?

We use NI40G now and it uses FPGA's.

IronCCIE

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ironccie 12/5/2012 | 3:15:16 AM

re: Force10: Where's the Exit? >http:/www.webhostingtalk.com/a...

>user jsw6 argues that Foundry's behavior comes now (by the >introduction of JetCore) close to a prefix based system but it is >still a flow based one.
>He uses Foundry links for his argumentation.

Not applicable to us.

We never used Foundry IronCore or JetCore for our L3 core requirements as it didn't pass the routing protocol convergence testing under load, but we did use on the edge. I was at N+I Vegas and Foundry didn't even have JetCore on display, so I think it is going away.

Funny thing is the "merchant silicon" everybody is criticizing seems better to me than the Extreme/Foundry ASIC's they did themselves.

NetIron 40G is called "Terathon" and it has a flow based mode and a non-flow based mode. We use the NI40G in our core in the non-flow based mode. We are very happy with it and will buy more of that or the NetIron IMR. Also, I was told (but not tested) that their FastIron Super-X and FES-X products also do not run flow based. I believe Foundry's L3 direction is no longer to run flow based, but you can check with them. Foundry is only 20% of our networking gear right now, but they do really help us beat Cisco up on price. We are having some strange packet loss on the Sup720's at certain packet sizes, so they may eek out a few projects we have them as a longshot now if Cisco doesn't resolve in time. Basically, Foundry Direct Routing = Cisco Express Forwarding.

IronCCIE

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OpticalHannibal 12/5/2012 | 3:15:15 AM

re: Force10: Where's the Exit? >>> Funny thing is the "merchant silicon" everybody is criticizing seems better to me than the Extreme/Foundry ASIC's they did themselves.

Merchant silicon from established companies is lot better than the inhouse designs of system companies.

In most system companies especially startups ASIC methodolgy, flows and verification is not upto the standards of established Silicon vendors. If the Silicon is from another start-up, it adds another variable.

Inhouse Silicon, is better, if you have strong IP, like algorithms, encryption. If one doesn't have that, it is better to go with merchant silicon or with FPGAs, than waiting for years to come up with next generation cards with their second generation ASICs, as in case of F10, where they lost window of opportunity, because of poor execution of their second generation chipset.

Heard there is no more 3rd generation chipset design from F10 and they are trying to sell what they have. That will severely dent their margins in the long run, if at all they have any.

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