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Iipoed 12/4/2012 | 11:23:42 PM
re: Cisco Winning Market Perception War Sgamble-Gave you a 5 for your post. I worked for Foundry from 98 to 02. Outstanding company committment to customers. However your post really captured the difference between the two. Cisco can throw hundreds of people at the solution and most likely has inhouse case studies of customer's specific problems due to the sheer number of installs.
Foundry often sits at your site until the issue is satisfactorily addressed. Also keep in mind to escalate to Bobby Johnson a customer's concerns is a real option no matter the size of the customer.
Try contacting John Chambers.
You get what you pay for-Foundry provides Cutting edge technology (sometimes requires a little more patience), request for specific features are taken very seriously by Foundry's senior management, investment protection (10g blades work in a 4 year old BigIron without changing management modules or any other upgrades), and a 100% committment to making it right versus the mentality of "know one ever loses their job buying Cisco"
Peter Heywood 12/4/2012 | 11:23:42 PM
re: Cisco Winning Market Perception War On making sure we were getting the views of knowledgable folk in carriers:

1. The questionnare was in two parts. In the first part, folk were asked to check product categories where they were familiar with the vendors. In the second part, a questionnaire was built that only covered those product categories.

2. We also asked folk to say whether their company actually used products in that category, and whether they personally specified/procured said products. The database that comes with this report enables folk to look at the results exclusively from such respondents, if they so wish.

This wouldn't have been possible if it wasn't for the fact that we've collected an enormous amount of data from such a huge number of service providers.

It means the results are meaningful even when you start applying multiple filters - what are the views of respondents in corporate management positions in incumbent carriers in Western Europe, for instance.

The bottom line is that the scope for analyzing the results is endless.
sgamble 12/4/2012 | 11:23:42 PM
re: Cisco Winning Market Perception War
First off, I have used Cisco gear for over 6 years in ISP and Enterprise environments. I currently work for a Metro company that works with Foundry equipment.

My experiences with Cisco TAC have been great. Granted it has been a year since I last called them. But for 6 years these guys helped me through some terrible issues. A lot of the time it meant a code upgrade of course which isnt great. We knew going into bed with Cisco that was a normal response. But that happens with most vendors. Also to note, their online support is the most amazing thing Ive ever seen. Everytime I had a question, it was there. Most times I dont even need to call Cisco because with a little bit of research and reading the answer is there.

The issue with Cisco support is having someone onsite. That is the issue. Damn near impossible unless you are tied into the ISP Team at Cisco which costs a small fortune.

With Foundry it has been a little different experience. Our SE assigned to Ottawa has been very good at working with us and staying up late nights to help us with upgrades/issues etc. I've also dealt with SE's from Foundry Toronto and TAC staff flown up from California and I think Dallas. Amazing people.

My issue with Foundry is trying to get their TAC to reproduce issues seen in our lab/cloud in their lab. It almost never happens. This is where Cisco are a few steps in front. Everytime Ive called in to the Cisco TAC they can reproduce the problem and get me a patch. Also the Foundry online documentation is very vague and lacks real scenarios showing the use of their features with different deployments. Ask someone at Foundry about SuperSpan and you will get a glazed look. Cisco has a scenario that would match most requirements with detailed explanations with all different topologies. But that has been my experiences. Im sure others have had different results.

Because I like to read on issues, the biggest thing a vendor needs is a solid product with solid documentation. When I think Cisco, I think of this but then I remember the cost of their equipment and support ;) But when I think of onsite support and commitment to the customer, I think Foundry. Prices arent too bad. We have managed to get through a LOT of bugs this year with the Foundry NetIron and 10Gig but they are getting sorted out over time. You get what you pay for.

My opinions...

sgamble 12/4/2012 | 11:23:41 PM
re: Cisco Winning Market Perception War A little off topic perhaps...

I read somewhere, and I wish I could remember where, that a unnamed vendor is choosing to not load their line cards if their EPROM is not seen on a GBIC.

We buy Finisar GBICs in LX and LHA models. Because of the insane costs that vendors put on GBICs bought from them - Cisco, Foundry etc all do this, we have chosen to stick with the same vendor, Finisar GBICs, but not from Foundry. This means that there is not an EPROM (so when you do a "show media" you get nothing for non-Foundry Finisar GBICs).

I am wondering if any vendors like Cisco or Extreme or anyone else are actively using this approach to force customers into buying their GBICs by looking for their own EPROM? Just curious... It has come up a few times.

Thanks for the info. Sorry for the topic-hopping.

vrparente 12/4/2012 | 11:23:41 PM
re: Cisco Winning Market Perception War Administrative ...

Peter, et.al. How about posting a copy of the survey here ? I'd like to see the list of choices and the questions.

While I have you on the line. I think the feedback system is a great idea. Limited in that it doesn't allow feedback on (A) the article content (B) author, and (C) LR staff postings/responses, etc. In the end you could use this for your own internal use as well to see which authors your readers like -- accounting (in this case discounting) ratings from people (like employees) affiliated with the company being covered in the press.

Yours truly,
Victor Blake
Engineer and as it turns out Ph.D. student in education/sociology -- aka I know a thing or two about people, surveys, methods, etc.
opticaljester 12/4/2012 | 11:23:38 PM
re: Cisco Winning Market Perception War Not so fastGǪ If LR where to show you how they conducted the survey then everyone would know how inaccurate and biased the survey and this new research organization really are.

By the way, would LR post how much they need to get the price of CISCO stock up to so we can all place out buy/sell orders??
vrparente 12/4/2012 | 11:23:35 PM
re: Cisco Winning Market Perception War Dear LR staff, et. al.

I do not intend to imply anything other than the request I posted. It is often the case that the results of surveys are in-intentional. For example, using open ended questions yields different results than with fixed choices. From what I can see it seems like you used fixed choices. I think that showing the surveys, which is certainly customary practice for any survey reports, would clarify this.

So for example, if you only listed those vendors shown on a short list we would know why only these vendors were shown, and not others.

Matthew Cramer 12/4/2012 | 11:23:34 PM
re: Cisco Winning Market Perception War if you really want to know how the survey was conducted and constructed, you might want to take a peek at the Survey Methodology:

newlegacy 12/4/2012 | 11:23:33 PM
re: Cisco Winning Market Perception War Does Lightreading say how they verified the employer affiliation of the respondents? Could it be Cisco marketing "wolves" in carrier sheep's clothing composed the lion's share of the responders (whew...three animals in one sentence!)?
mboeing 12/4/2012 | 11:23:17 PM
re: Cisco Winning Market Perception War I would like to second the view on Cisco support.

I have been dealing with Cisco, Nortel and Lucent products during the last decade. Ciscos post-sales support is outstanding. In my experience support from Cisco TAC is always good. With other vendors support was either outstanding or miserable. With Cisco I did not experience this large variation in support quality.

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