Cisco Takes On 10 GigE Competition

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mugwhump 12/5/2012 | 12:20:32 AM

re: Cisco Takes On 10 GigE Competition It will be interesting to see the time frames of when any of this becomes available. As a Cisco resller I am really getting gun-shy of these things. Been burned way too many times recently.

As of today NONE of the new toys are available on CCO. Past ecperience has shown that an announcement from Cisco does not mean it can be ordered. Nor does it guarantee that the bits and pieces will actually work together. Typically one can expect a 3 to 6 month lag from the time it is orderable until it is actually stable.

Others are shipping products today. I can surmise that this 'announcement" is at best a stalling tactic. Anyone contemplating these should ask to see them actually working.

Just my (informed) .02

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Hanover_Fist 12/5/2012 | 12:20:31 AM

re: Cisco Takes On 10 GigE Competition Actually, contrary to what The Yankee Group thinks, Extreme and Foundry are going to be most hurt by Cisco's latest product announcement.

Again, Cisco trys but just misses the performance bar - if one actually reads Cisco's data sheets (and avoids talking to marketing hacks), one finds the following:

40 Gbps of per slot capacity is actually two 10 Gigabit Ethernet channels running in full duplex (10 Gbps to switch fabric / 10 Gigabit from switch fabric) times two channels = 40 Gbps TOTAL slot capacity.

40 Gbps of Total slot capacity times 8 slots (becuase the Sup720 actually occupies one of nine slots in a 6509) yeields 320 Gbps of switching capacity - and remember that the 40 Gbps number has already been quoted as a full-duplex capacity.

Based on the above, 320 Gbps is a far cray from their "marketed" 720 Gbps. I for one would like Cisco to explain where the 720 Gbps number comes from. If I were a gambling person, I would be heavily that Cisco has (yet) another Supervisory module upgrade planned for the near future.

The 2-port dCEF720-enabled 10 Gigabit Ethernet module will run at line rate - however, the 4-port aCEF720-enabled 10 Gigabit Ethernet linecard is severeley oversubscribed (and at $20,000, it's probably missing a whole lot of functionality).

You must upgrade the Fan Tray and power supplies in the chassis (just to get started) and there's no telling how many other system level upgrades will be required to get an existing chassis - this does wonders to overall Total Cost of Ownership (TCO).

There are probably other important details that Cisco glossed over (to save themselves from a heck of a lot of explaining) but it is good to see them aggressively attacking the 10 Gbps Ethernet market. This is good for the industry and for those customers who want to purchase low cost / low performance 10 Gigabit Etherent products today.

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literight 12/5/2012 | 12:20:30 AM

re: Cisco Takes On 10 GigE Competition The announcement says Q3. If you take the Sup3 720 (sic!) and stick it into the Cat, load up 8 10*2 10 gig ports is that full capacity for the Cat per their own admission?

Some serious Cat-math work in order to even physically config this beast. It goes like this: 2*10 GE line rate under some conditions OR 2*10 GE not line rate since features enabled OR 1*10 GE because it's legacy OR 4*10 GE not line-rate because you don't need it VS. which slot do you stick this into?

Looks like Zeus Kerravala is on the Cisco payroll to be commenting on things he knows nothing about, folks that read and believe Yankee need some serious prayers to go along with!

I bet this is not even live in the Cisco labs! Pure marketing techniques for stalling customers.

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Hanover_Fist 12/5/2012 | 12:20:30 AM

re: Cisco Takes On 10 GigE Competition Ntwkeng,
You must work at Cisco because you too have drank mightly of the Cisco Kool-aid.

The 20 Gbps fabric channel as stated in their data sheets is actually a full-duplex capacity number (10 Gbps into the switch fabric plus 10 Gbps out of the switch fabric). Two 20 Gbps fabric channel connections per slot is 40 Gigabits - in FULL DUPLEX.

I'm basing my analysis on Page 6 of their 10 Gigabit Ethernet data sheet that describes the "aCEF720" interface modules - no where do they say this module provides line-rate performance (except when they couple that with local switching).

On page 7, Cisco specifically called out that the dCEF720 module provide line-rate 10 Gigabit Ethernet performance for 2 PORTS ONLY.

2-ports of 10 Gigabit Etherent running in full duplex is 40 Gbps. That's where the 40 Gbps number comes from.

To double that capacity once again to get you to 720 Gbps (80 x 9 slots) is bending "real math" to the breaking point.

The 4-port 10 Gigabit Etherent module introduces 80 Gigabits of full duplex capacity. I don't see Cisco talking about this type of capacity anywhere in their documentation (becuase it just ain't so, Joe!).

"Designed for

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ntwkeng 12/5/2012 | 12:20:30 AM

re: Cisco Takes On 10 GigE Competition Actually, per Cisco's datasheets and presentations it is 2x 20Gb/s Fabric channels per slot for 40Gb/s per slot (real math).

I think they used a 9 slot chassis for this since it gives 2 channels per slot including the Supervisor slot, allowing for 9 x 40 = 360Gbps x 2 = 720Gbps.

The 4-port module on a 40Gb/s fabric would probably be a little if not at all oversubscribed for L2 oeprations although at 48Mpps L3 forwarding it would be oversubscribed at smaller packet sizes. (Roughly 1Gbps = 1.5Mpps.

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arak 12/5/2012 | 12:20:27 AM

re: Cisco Takes On 10 GigE Competition Two sentences:

Mindless non-engineering drones at the enterprises who go by the title "Network Engineer"

and

Clueless managers who never get fired for authorizing purchases of expensive Crisco pieces of shit

Tsk, tsk ... and y'all wonder why Criso takes home the bacon ?

Arak

Light-Bulb wrote:
>
> Embedded Base...
>
> And
>
> Extra Features...
>
> Put them together, Cisco gets the Pizza.

Cheers,

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Light-bulb 12/5/2012 | 12:20:27 AM

re: Cisco Takes On 10 GigE Competition Embedded Base...

And

Extra Features...

Put them together, Cisco gets the Pizza.

Cheers,

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dwdm 12/5/2012 | 12:20:26 AM

re: Cisco Takes On 10 GigE Competition I called my favorite Cisco SE earlier today and asked. He did confirm that each slot gets 2x20Gbps worth of bandwidth of real math. He also mentioned that the sup720 is orderable today and orders will ship in 4-6 weeks. I can't order one, so I can't verify, but I never had any issues in the past with any info that I got from him. He did mention that some linecards will use both 20Gig channels and some will use a single channel.

I've read this anouncement, and if this turns out anything like the previous supervisor module, then they got a damn good product. Yes, I'm reading this stuff, and I'm starting to drink the kool aid :-)

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dwdm 12/5/2012 | 12:20:25 AM

re: Cisco Takes On 10 GigE Competition Hanover_Fist,

20Gbps FULL DUPLEX means 40Gbps half duplex when you talk about bandwidth per slot. So when they say, 2x20Gbps full duplex, it also means 2x40Gbps half duplex channels. In other words, full duplex is real math, and half duplex is marketing math.

> The 4-port 10 Gigabit Etherent module introduces
> 80 Gigabits of full duplex capacity. I don't see
> Cisco talking about this type of capacity
> anywhere in their documentation (becuase it
> just ain't so, Joe!).

So the 4-port 10 Gigabit Ethernet module introduces 80 Gbps of half duplex capacity or 40 full duplex capacity.

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ext88 12/5/2012 | 12:20:23 AM

re: Cisco Takes On 10 GigE Competition
Is Cisco's announcement today the kiss of death for F10? I sort of think so. What ILEC/RBOC/IXC, etc would purchase gear from F10 now that Cisco has a cheaper, more compelling solution? Oh, and Cisco also has the service to go with it. F10 can't come close to Cisco's service infrastructure.

Hey PK, I guess F10 is not looking too much like an "A-Grade" company now, is it? Good luck, because Cisco is going to bury F10. Ouch, that's gotta hurt.

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