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MP_UK 12/5/2012 | 3:16:33 AM
re: BT Unveils 21CN Suppliers
I think the 'metro node' concept is a collection of functions logically grouped, rather than a specific description of what a box should do. So it doesn't really matter if the metro node comprises one box or a few, as long as there is a stable platform to perform the required functions.

I imagine you'll find the same thing with the MSAN - doesn't matter if it's all in one box or not, as long as all the required functions can be put in the MSAN space.

turing 12/5/2012 | 3:16:31 AM
re: BT Unveils 21CN Suppliers Modular software. What a term, you can update/patch JUNOS in service because its modular! What happens if you have to update the routing table code, or code that the routing table depends on which changes the selection criteria

So true. I think modular software patching is a marketing hot-button, and makes technical architects feel good. But really it's not sustainable. How does cisco test and support all the permutations of different versions of IOX processes? How do you verify you can upgrade component X at time Y and how it interacts with all the other processes in state Z? It would make the different IOS train problems pale in comparison. And it flies in the face of the kiss principle.

And really many of the most fundamental processes are inter-dependent, like LDP using IGP, or MPLSte with bGP (or IGP). And of course those interdependent processes are the most likely ones needing to be patched. It's not often you need to patch the SNMP or SSH or other somewhat independent parts. am i missing something?
turing 12/5/2012 | 3:16:31 AM
re: BT Unveils 21CN Suppliers This really shows Junipers strategy which has been quite successful I do give it to them. Get to the market ASAP with a "good enough" system solution and try to grab the market.

I think you just described Cisco's strategy. And Microsoft's strategy. And most every successful company's strategy.
vferrari 12/5/2012 | 3:16:31 AM
re: BT Unveils 21CN Suppliers Comments below from a provider not vendor view:

"I guess your J-Tree lookup can't handle any more lookups as its also used for forwarding(?). In real customer deployment scenarios they want to run L3 features, using a T series they are in for a big surprise."

Most people know that's a corner case and all those cisco/meircomm tests are not using real traffic pattern. All you have to do is read the methodology (when documented) IE: all 64 byte packets and other non-real life scenarios like installing millions of routes. Providers using T series know how it works fine with real world traffic patterns/sizes. You can break lots of things once you find the achilles heel. Please...both vendors need to give people more credit when trying to position testing results.

"Although I have heard the sequencing issues still are not totally resolved in the 640, it is possible to get reordered packets. It will be interesting also when their 40G interface comes out to see how it sequences packets, as gluing 2 20Gig engines together is not going to work! "

AFAIK the issues were resolved a long time ago once the production HW was released. As for 40G, I would suspect that the 2x20G engines will not be used. It _should_ be a new 40G capable engine but time will tell on this one. :)

As for the M160 issue, there were some that were annoyed but in general, the traffic pattern and flows to hit that were pretty rare. Very large high speed flows only which most networks do not have. We had and continue to have plenty of them without issue.

All vendors have issues/bugs. Most vendors' current boxes are fine for real world deployments. Do your testing and pick your poison. :)

I agree, an exchange without mud slinging!!

volkot 12/5/2012 | 3:16:08 AM
re: BT Unveils 21CN Suppliers
AAL5, comments inline

>In regards to your query about how IOX will >solve a problem JUNOS cannot let me give a few examples:
>- H/W, in particular the NP is design to be able >to perform 40G processing of packets with ACLs

It has absolutely nothing to do with JUNOS vs. IOX

>I have seen when 5000 filters were applied the T >series router performance drops to less than 1%. >I guess your J-Tree lookup can't handle any more >lookups as its also used for forwarding(?)

Speaking of hardware forwarding path, you seem to bring a point of TCAM lookup vs. memory search. Judging performance of different tecnhologies is like comparing apples to oranges.

In your case, I can demonstrate demonstrate a TCAM spillover on any Cisco GSR/7600/CRS linecard with a filter size ranging from 10 to few thousand lines depending on the model.
Unlike performance degradation, TCAM spillovers are fatal to forwarding.

>In real customer deployment scenarios they want >to run L3 features, using a T series they are in >for a big surprise.

You again sound like a marketoid type.
Who gets a big surprise will depend on the test methodology.

> Although I have heard the sequencing issues >still are not totally resolved in the 640, it is >possible to get reordered packets

.. or maybe you heard it wrong

While not being a huge fan of any aforementioned products, I believe the core lineups are quite comparable. What's much better with Cisco is FUD.
donniall 12/5/2012 | 3:14:38 AM
re: BT Unveils 21CN Suppliers Does anyone know what the existing supplier profile is - in each of the respective categories (with exception of iNode) - for BT's existing network? So far we know Huawei is a newcomer to Access and Transmission, with Marconi losing in Access (& ????) ....

SRILANKA 12/5/2012 | 3:14:35 AM
re: BT Unveils 21CN Suppliers kriens in an interview with forbes said among
other things that he thinks that the pride the
emplyees feel working for JNPR is more important
and worth more than wages and stock options!!
He also stated that he owns two Austin martins
a ferrari and mercedes!He sold 0ne million shares
in Oct. and this month sold 500k shares for a
total haul of $$35.5 million!
How come my mouth taste so bitter???
DZED 12/5/2012 | 3:14:34 AM
re: BT Unveils 21CN Suppliers Sounds like Bookham

Anania: I require stock options, bonuses and freebies. You just get to keep your job, for now, if you're lucky.
ironccie 12/5/2012 | 3:14:32 AM
re: BT Unveils 21CN Suppliers >Xbar - Juniper is definitely not in decline.

He's got his, and I've got mine. Meet the decline.

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