I agree that JNPR will not be going belly up soon. Even if they will stop all their R&D and acquisitions, they will be selected as a second supplier anyway. In today's world there are only two core router supplier CSCO and JNPR and there is nobody on the horizon. Seems this will not change for years to go. CRS1 seems to me a much better architected system (both SW and HW) than any T box and cluster. I do think it is for CSCO to loose the battle in this important market.
The real action is at the edge and enterprise. At the edge ALA will push JNPR aside IMHO and in enterprise JNPR does not have any chance even with the Peribit sales team.
re: BT Unveils 21CN SuppliersHey all, God has spoken. Thanks AALASS, oh, I mean AAL5. You will have to wait to see though, If either company got the lions share of core and edge. Juniper getting Matrix in may be agood sign for them. Now got back and kiss some Chambers a'".
Yep. There are only two boxes in the Ethernet edge and aggregation area that are really worth looking at: the former Timetra aka 7750 and the Cisco 7600 routers.
JNPR does not play in this area yet. Everybody is speculating in them wasting another >>$0.5B or more on another startup (F5???). I beg to disagree. However JNPR bought a compression startup for 300M; which IMHO does not makes sense at all. Can anybody let me know what technology was bought and why.
re: BT Unveils 21CN SuppliersComrade Nietzsche, You seem to be pointing your Fickle Finger of Fault at Light Reading for their earlier story on Marconi/21CN !!!
Shame on you, comrade. In fact it's the Dresdner Kleinwort Wasserstein analyst(s) who have egg on their faces.
I'll point out a couple of things about which you may not be aware.
1. When a journalist is allowed to attribute a quote to an analyst organisation then there isn't the same requirement to obtain an independent verification of the information (compared to, say an "off the record" source working for any organisation who has a vested interest in the story). Such verification is the analyst's job, and if they screw up then it's their bad. For Ray Le Maistre to have wasted time finding another source for this story would have been redundant effort, and he might have missed the scoop.
2. If Ray had stopped there, he would have been in the clear, but he actually went a stage further in terms of journalistic ethics. If you look at the headline (headline, mind you, not something buried in the body text) the article screams at you "Here is what an ANALYST is saying about the 21CN deal".
Remember, it's LR's job to report on news, and for a deal of this magnitude what the DKW folksare saying is clearly news. A story like this has a very definite expiration date.
So if, comrade Nietzsche, your philosophy obliges you to apportion blame in situations like this, then please point it in the right direction :-)
Cheers, Geoff
Disclaimer: I worked for Light Reading/Heavy Reading for two years, but left in August 2004. And contrary to other rumours, Ray and I are just good friends ;-)
You mentioned, "At the edge ALA will push JNPR aside ...." .
Could you elaborated further on this? Do you mean the Timetra SR 7750 box as an edge device?
I am also from operator environment and looking at evaluating the SR box. Would like to get some of your expereince if you happen to have any to share.
re: BT Unveils 21CN Suppliersxbar said "CRS1 seems to me a much better architected system (both SW and HW) than any T box and cluster."
I agree with you on this one, CRS s/w and h/w IMO has some advantages over 640 h/w and Junos.
But Juniper does have 2 advantages: - Time to Market, 640 has been out for sometime now. - Software has had more time to be 'baked' in widespread customer live networks. This is the only way to flush out some software issues that are difficult to find with internal testing.
xbar said "The real action is at the edge and enterprise."
The Edge is where the money is. Not much to be made in the core, but it 'pulls along' other buisness.
re: BT Unveils 21CN SuppliersFunny to hear the s/w on the crs-1 is better. it's been in development for years and most people have used it as a launching ramp to get into Juniper. I know they have hired at least a half dozen people from cisco in this area.
the s/w being "baked" is an understatement. IOX will take years to get completely right not to mention get the right features implemented.. without even considering the porting over to the GSR, OSR (if at all), and so forth.
not sure on the h/w. but in my opinion that's not where it matters. all the h/w (t and crs-1) is more than adequate for any sane deployment. my .02 cents.
re: BT Unveils 21CN SuppliersAndropat said "most people have used it as a launching ramp to get into Juniper."
Come on, and be serious. Do you not think that is a 'slight exhageration'. This is what I mean about people being so blinded by the company they work for, it makes it extremely difficult to have a discussion on the merits of various product when people take this approach to debate.
If I was a 'Cisco-Fan boy' I guess I would be mentioning BCN and the fact that a bunch of Juniper guys came to Cisco via them. But what exactly does that prove. Nothing.
In regards to what you said about the software some of what you said may have validity to a certain degree, but the foundation and infrastructure of IOS-XR has a lot of advantages over Junos. If you want we can compare them, rather than 'throw mud' at each other.
Regarding the hardware, it definitely does matter to customers. They want a system that can scale as their core grows, can support L3 and higher features at line rate. Customers want to be sure that as their requirements grow, they can scale the switch fabric, control processing, interfaces etc. I know this for a fact as I hear it from major Service Providers.
Is CRS-1 'better' in this respect than the T-640. I'll tell you what, why don't you start with the technical advantages of T-640 over CRS-1 in regards to h/w and then s/w, then I'll add in the CRS info.
That is unless you don't want to discuss the technical advantages/disadvantages of the 640 vs CRS for *some reason*.
re: BT Unveils 21CN SuppliersIf memory serves right, the current network being replaced is full of antiquated, worthless equipment. It is a veritable junkyard mostly early Cisco and later models. As a result (the IP network termed "Colossus") is one giant patchwork breaking every second. Anything can break it easily, from software/hardware upgrades to bringing new users/networks on-line. Operational costs alone probably run in the billions, not to mention huge ongoing Capex.
So it must have been a slam dunk decision to shy away from the one vendor that has been causing such widespread havoc in their network.
I agree that JNPR will not be going belly up soon. Even if they will stop all their R&D and acquisitions, they will be selected as a second supplier anyway. In today's world there are only two core router supplier CSCO and JNPR and there is nobody on the horizon. Seems this will not change for years to go. CRS1 seems to me a much better architected system (both SW and HW) than any T box and cluster. I do think it is for CSCO to loose the battle in this important market.
The real action is at the edge and enterprise. At the edge ALA will push JNPR aside IMHO and in enterprise JNPR does not have any chance even with the Peribit sales team.
xbar