even though they may have upgraded their line cards with new forwarding processor complex, their switch architecture (which is the key, btw) is the same old, same old, toroidal or donut or whatever.....
re: Avici Joins Huawei for China PushAll the folks posting about this architecture being old miss the fact they have upgraded their line cards a couple of times to latest generation of technology while enhancing the software with reliability features others lack. They have introduced new generations of chassis too. Stuff is proven at ATT and interoperable, robust IP software vs. the new and untested stuff from startups. Carriers like stuff that is proven. Agree though they haven't gotten the leverage they should from all this, albeit the Huawei thing is a big boost.
re: Avici Joins Huawei for China PushPlease check your facts. The switch card was updated with the line card this year.
What would you consider a new architecture ? It seems like Cisco, Juniper, and Procket have all decided to stick with textbook 101: a crossbar/shared memory based switch. Cisco and Juniper seem to be getting some good milage out of the oldest architecture in the book, they own 96% of the core market.
Skeptic, you seem to think people say bad things about Avici. Have you heard what people say about Cisco ?
And how can signing *any* foreign partner be a bad thing ? Geez, some presence in China is better than none.
The proof is in the (sales) pudding. So far Avici is lacking. But at least let's beat them up for the right reasons.
I agree with you that Cisco/Juniper have the oldest architecture - virtual output-queued crossbar switch. In fact,Juniper T-series went back to Cisco's 12000 architecture which DOES not work. So in some sense, Juniper has backtracked. But it is a newer implementation than 12000.
The point I was trying to make is that Avici still has the same implementation of their toroidal, donut architecture. They have just upgraded their line cards. Do they have an optical backplane yet? Last I saw, they had some sort of weird electro-mechanical interconnect. I am sure their commons must have cost quite a bit for their TSR.
But one has to ask the question: why have they not been able to leverage their AT&T deployment? We all know that Qwest, Enron wins were all bogus. And they just gave their equipment away for the Boston based CLEC deployment - InterNAPS or whatever.
re: Avici Joins Huawei for China Pushindianajones,
I agree wholeheartedly on the business side. It dosen't bode well that they haven't been able to sign another big customer. And it is perplexing since AT&T is tier 1 and you would think they would be able to leverage the account in some way.
However, the point you say you are trying to make I disagree with. The 3D toroidal mesh is a really nice architecture for a router or supercomputer if done right. Take a look at the literature on metrics for scaling and fault tolerance and you will see why.
An optical backplane is a bad idea. As far as I can see, the only property it offers is the ability to move cabinets apart. It's downsides are many and all greater than an order of magnitude in the wrong direction for power, cost, and complexity.
By choosing the wrong architecture up front, Juniper and Cisco are forced to use an external optical switch to connect cabinets. At least they claim they will have it in a year or so.
Although I conceed this is an engineering discusion, they own all the market, and the point may be moot.
re: Avici Joins Huawei for China PushAvici has also delivered outstanding reliability features - full stateful swichover for their routing protocols and in service software upgrades, all without changing any protocols are requiring particpation by peer routers. Cisco and Juniper are mostly talk in these areas with only the graceful restart efforts in the protcol area so far. Their composite link capabilities is also an extremely useful feature.
I think Avici's main problem is probably that they did not have a product for the edge. How many carriers need or can justify a platform that is for core only? AT&T as the largest Tier 1 backbone is one of the few. It will be interesting to see if their more recent QSR plus their just announced multiservice line cards (MSC) will make the difference. But the edge router space is crowded and will be difficult to crack with leadin being only the credible core product.
re: Avici Joins Huawei for China PushCisco has no chance of getting business fr0m Republic of China because of absurd accusations of Cisco. Cisco tried to defame Huawei. In addition, Cisco also tried to prevent Huawei from doing business in the US.
The main reason for Cisco to defame Huawei was to sell its router devices at a very high price. Cisco monopoly on routers is about to end. It has made unrealic amount of profit on its Catalyst eorkgroup switches. Huawei is currently present in 45 countries and its router devices have been accepted. It performs exceptionally well.
Cisco has been doing business in China for anumber of years. But because of satanic and evil behavior it will not be able to do business in China.
Cisco's life in terms of appropriating technologies from other companies is not clean. For example, Lucent had to file a law suit against Cisco for stealing technologies.
With millions of start-ups in California, the companies do steal technologies and product ideas from each other. It is because of this reason a vast number of companies have similar products and technologies. It is not uncommon for the California companies to visit a trade show and come out with "product ideas".
Avici co-operation with Huawei would allow to sell edge and core routers at a very reasonable price.
re: Avici Joins Huawei for China PushThere's fine line that separates from picking up product idea and developing it on your own and stealing the code. Huawei knowingly used stolen code in their product. If Avici is willing to sell its product through company that has no respect for intellectual property law, then they should not be surprised if one day their code ends up in Huawei product and no royalties to be paid.
re: Avici Joins Huawei for China PushAt least we now know BobbyMax's allegiance. Considering his English this isnGÇÖt a surprise. Would someone fill me in on the history of the GÇ£All your base are belong to usGÇ¥? It seems to shut him up.
even though they may have upgraded their line cards with new forwarding processor complex, their switch architecture (which is the key, btw) is the same old, same old, toroidal or donut or whatever.....
That is why the architecture is pretty old