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IP Observer 12/4/2012 | 11:22:38 PM
re: Alcatel Redraws Router Strategy You are completely delusional. Procket is no where with any carrier as evidenced by their continued attempts to try to pass off their resellers as carrier customers-NTT PC is a channel not a carrier. Even Alcatel with a non-working product had made better progress than Procket.

Your attempts to try to drum up an exit strategy for Procket in the form of an acquisition is desperate and transparent.

Procket, Chiaro, Hyperchip, Caspian, Charlotte's Web are all in same boat-no carrier will take the risk in deploying them because the products are unproven. Bubble days are over.

Who cares that Procket has Tony Li certainly not customers.





netskeptic 12/4/2012 | 11:22:38 PM
re: Alcatel Redraws Router Strategy > This also shows what a joke the LR analysis of this market has been -- LR claiming Alcatel had all kinds of momentum with this product which is just bogus and evidenced by them shooting yet. Get real

Exactly my sentiment, I am sitting way far from the field and way far from the hype to form my own opinion, and I read 7770 this and 7770 that so many times, that I started to have a warm feeling that may be a European company was finally able to make a decent router.

There is yet another thing which makes me shiver in this respect - there are a lot of Europeans in the driver seat of IPv6 and there was an apparent inability of Europeans to make a decent router product. The supposed success of 7770 was giving me some solace in this respect, but now it is all gone.

Thanks,

Netskeptic

ip_lam 12/4/2012 | 11:22:37 PM
re: Alcatel Redraws Router Strategy fw23:

Not sure if you work for Cisco ;-) but your perception about Juniper is not realistic.

Indeed, taking you own examples, BellSouth have already deployed several Juniper routers, and this vendor has been selected as preferred one for any MPLS project both in US as well as Latin America.

Although it is true that Cisco is the WW leader in IP/MPLS gear, it is also true that bigger & more high-tech customer (those who really know what they want) know very well Juniper and they are already starting to deploy JNPR it in they networks (typically at the core).

Additionally, although it is true that JNPR is loosing money actually (http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?... it is also true that they are (by large) the only vendor that can easily receive a finnacial "help" (Siemens, Ericsson, Private Inv, etc.).

Based on my real-experiences with several customers across several contries I can tell you that Cisco (at least in the core IP/MPLS market) is not very well-seen because instability of their products (cisco=ip, IOS=bug) & weak scalability, the only stopper for Juniper success is presence (not credibility at all).

Regards
fw23 12/4/2012 | 11:22:37 PM
re: Alcatel Redraws Router Strategy >Indeed, taking you own examples, BellSouth have >already deployed several Juniper routers, and >this vendor has been selected as preferred one >for any MPLS project both in US as well as Latin >America.

That doesnt mean anything. I follow the science.
And the science (the excellent light reading
market survey) says that the decision-makers
at the RBOCs are saying "juniper who?". The
"deployed" routers your talking about are probably
some hippie researchers in a basement somewhere
far away from corporate. The adults at Bellsouth
don't seem to know or care about juniper just
like all the other RBOCs.

Just like Lightreading said yesterday, if Juniper
wants to survive they need to get people aware
of who they are. I would suggest a superbowl
ad as a start. And they should fire whoever
is doing their marketing. Nobody reads newspapers
anymore. If you want to get awareness of your
product, all the heavy-hitters know its one
word:

TV - TV - TV!!!!


fw23 12/4/2012 | 11:22:36 PM
re: Alcatel Redraws Router Strategy >I have to agree, asking Timetra to be a core >router is somewhat of a stretch, considering >what their asics were designed to do. On the >other hand, it can't be worse than the 7770.

I would think they will be close to the same.
The 7770 was an attempt to salvage the S12
and turn it into a router (at least at first).
Ripping up the Timetra to turn it into a core
router is going to probably be about the same
effort. And probably lead to the same results.

Alcatel should focus on services which is a
big-big-big new slice of pie in the market and
what Basil's brain-boys have designed their
system for.

If they wanted the core and the edge, they should
have put up the big-bucks and gone with procket.
But I heard procket wanted a 1.5 Billion
dollar deal. Next year, that may look like a
bargain. But I can understand the top men at
alcatel thinking twice about taking such a big
bet which they still have their own house to
clean up.

The hard part will be putting in the availability
stuff from the 7770. I think it means throwing
away Timetra's software environment and replacing
it with software from the 7770. Or radically
re-writing what Timetra has. The availability
stuff from alcatel is an attribute of their
software environment. Best wishes to those
poor souls at Timetra who have to push their
software into it.

And even thinking about this is going to re-start
the deadly which-software-should-we-use debate
from 1999-2000. Packet Engines and Xylan
fought more than anything about whose software
was going to be used for what.
IP Observer 12/4/2012 | 11:22:33 PM
re: Alcatel Redraws Router Strategy
"If they wanted the core and the edge, they should
have put up the big-bucks and gone with Procket."

Procket's product is proven in the same way 7770 was-that is to say not proven at all. Why would they go through the same exercise? Let's get real. Wishful thinking by Procket employees hoping someone takes them out.

"The hard part will be putting in the availability
stuff from the 7770. I think it means throwing
away Timetra's software environment and replacing
it with software from the 7770. Or radically
re-writing what Timetra has. The availability
stuff from alcatel is an attribute of their
software environment. Best wishes to those
poor souls at Timetra who have to push their
software into it."

Let's keep in mind that a lot of people believed Alcatel when they said they had a working core router eventhough lack of customers spoke for itself and insiders knew better. Those market share claims were questionable at best. What makes anyone think that Alcatel's availability claims are anything but Powerpoint slides? Keep in mind that high availability is tied to other components of the router. If they want high-availability technology it is unlikely to come from Alcatel 7770. And of they were going to re-write Timetra software it begs the question, why did Alcatel bother buying Timetra at all? Software is where routers are distinguished as ASICs can be bought off the shelf.

Was Timetra router proven anywhere before Alcatel bought them other than in some pretty slides and a lab?

Kevin Mitchell 12/4/2012 | 11:22:29 PM
re: Alcatel Redraws Router Strategy crazy guy said: Well, all I can tell you mister is that you should get to Heavy Reading and check-out the report. Its brilliant and shows the TRUTH
about the market and whose winning rather than
using half-truths put out by the propoganda
departments of companies.

The truth is that a large part of the industry
doesn't even know who juniper is.

Crazy Guy: That shows market perception and not market reality. JNPR has 20%+ share of both the WW edge and core router market. Cisco has 65%+ of both the edge and core. That leaves 15% for 10+ other companies. And you know who knows Juniper: Siemens and Ericsson and Lucent sales force. That matters, not whether 24-year old Joe Marketing knows about an M160 router.

Heavy Reading's research was based on unreliable WEB-based surveys that anyone can fill out. Respondents alos included technology- challenged marketing and business department

network 12/4/2012 | 11:22:26 PM
re: Alcatel Redraws Router Strategy Everyone always gets excited over the core router space. It was a good move for Alcatel to bow out of this market until service providers are ready to proceed to the next evolution of the core. The only real advancements in this area concentrates on bigger and faster - a commodity business.

In the meantime the Edge service router market will help define the new core. The 7750 looks like a good service box. The concentration of revenue generating network services are defined by core functionality.

As for the "juniper who", that's just laughable. Enjoy the bunfight Procket/Cisco guys.


Stargate 12/4/2012 | 11:22:26 PM
re: Alcatel Redraws Router Strategy Just to point out to fw23 that the 7770 bears no resemblance to S12 and never has done. The 7770 design had some attractive design features, notably the RTOS it used, which incidentally is the same as that used by Tenor Networks, and by which they were/are placed in an excellent position to build and offer high availability into the product.
fw23 12/4/2012 | 11:22:26 PM
re: Alcatel Redraws Router Strategy Listen, I understand that you have to cover
up for the company your working for or
investing in (almost certainly juniper), but
you might as well be suggesting that the earth
is flat or that Darwin was wrong. Light Reading
cut through the lies and showed us the truth
finally. And they did it with Science!!!!

Market share doesn't mean much for juniper when
the company is in debt and most of that market
share is from CLECs in chapter 11. The RBOCs
tell you whats happening and Juniper doesn't
even exist as far as the decision-makers at
the RBOCs are concerned.

When the real decision-makers in the industry]
think router, they think cisco. Why? Its just
as light reading said. Because Cisco knows how
to M-A-R-K-E-T!!!!!!

Juniper needs to get their products
on TV so that people know about the company. You
can't see anything if the customers don't know
who you are. Thats why getting commericals on
NFL games, NBA games and the superbowl is so
important. Signing up someone the public admires
like Venus Williams, Terry Bradshaw or Ray
Romano would help too.

Its been said before on light reading, but lots
of people need to step out of their home-turf,
get their head out of the sand and deal with
life as it is, not as they want it to be.

Light Reading has scientifically proven that
Juniper is a minor-league player at best. If you
turn your back on science in favor of "feelings",
hey thats great. But those of us in-the-know
are going to keep-on keeping on.

What I'm happiest about is that the RIGHT->TEAM
is finally in place at procket to make things
happen. They will not fall into the trap juniper
did.

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