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Huawei Fires Supercomm Snooper

Light Reading
News Analysis
Light Reading
8/17/2004

Huawei Technologies Co. Ltd. says it has fired Yi Bin Zhu, the technical engineer accused of spying on Fujitsu Network Communications Inc. (FNC) and other companies during the Supercomm tradeshow.

Huawei spokesman Richard Li, in an email to Light Reading, confirmed that Zhu had been fired. He declined to make any further comment on the matter.

Zhu had been caught after-hours taking photographs of equipment displayed at FNC's Supercomm booth, as Light Reading first reported on June 24. When caught, Zhu was wearing a name badge with a cleverly altered company name: Weihua. (See Huawei in Spying Flap and Will Spying Charges Hurt Huawei?.)

Show security confiscated several items from Zhu, including Memory Sticks from his digital camera, and a notebook that was packed with hand-drawn diagrams and other data, probably of equipment he'd looked at, according to sources who witnessed the incident.

In June, Zhu spoke to Light Reading, through an interpreter. At the time, he admitted to taking pictures of equipment displayed at FNC's Supercomm booth. An FNC spokesman said Zhu was found taking pictures of a piece of equipment with its cover removed, but Zhu denied having taken circuit boards out of boxes to photograph them.

FNC says it has turned the matter over to the FBI.

Li's email to Light Reading says that Zhu was fired at the end of July. However, Business Week, in its August 9 issue, reported that Zhu was still working at Huawei, but with reduced pay.

— Phil Harvey, News Editor, and Peter Heywood, Founding Editor, Light Reading

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lightbay
lightbay
12/5/2012 | 1:20:59 AM
re: Huawei Fires Supercomm Snooper
I think if the USA just copy Basmati, it is fine. The problem is they are trying to patent it and thus trying to monopolize its use.

This is extended tradition from the UK, who thought everything in India belong to them.

brahmos
brahmos
12/5/2012 | 1:21:13 AM
re: Huawei Fires Supercomm Snooper
seeking morality is a losing pastime in dealings between nations and MNCs. It is a valid expectation in inter-personal dealings.

"Rules" are always made to favour whoever is the top dog of the day. others fall in line to curry favour or try to circumvent any way they can.

At the moment, all the "rules" are stacked in favour of the West, so it doesnt surprise me that emerging nations will seek to change the rules whether it be generic drugs in India or a new DVD standard in China.

NOBODY is going to help emerging nations reach the
top, least of all those who are already at the summit and enjoying the benefits.
brahmos
brahmos
12/5/2012 | 1:21:17 AM
re: Huawei Fires Supercomm Snooper
heres some background on US biopiracy.

http://www.organicconsumers.or...
brahmos
brahmos
12/5/2012 | 1:21:17 AM
re: Huawei Fires Supercomm Snooper
stealing biological stuff/traditiontal knowledge from
developing countries, patenting it and enforcing these patents to extract $$ for packaged products is a old tactic used by the developed world. it is well documented and many cases have been caught.

wrt india - basmati rice, neem, turmeric, many other herbs and last I heard someone was trying to patent chapatti making. India atleast is aware of
the issue though not having much money to fight
lawsuits there are other countries esp. in africa
and s.america without the resources to defend their interests.

It cannot ofcourse stop indians from continuing to use them, but when some indian co tries to sell packaged stuff abroad the wolves await to pounce.

got_light
got_light
12/5/2012 | 1:21:21 AM
re: Huawei Fires Supercomm Snooper
Agreed that the US did not steal the technology from Western Europe 60-70 years back.

Agreed that the US led the mass production thanks to Assembly-line from Ford.

Agreed that America rarely produces mass-produced goods of exceptional (or even superior quality).

Agreed that America now rules roost in the Optical Networking and lags by a decade or so in Wireless!!.

Agreed taht America manages to push its businesses into other nations (including to its ancestral Europe).

But why does America steal IPR from developing countires, especially in the Biotech sector?

Do you guys know the US tried to file patents for a special variety of Rice grown for thousands of years in India (called Basmati) and named it Texmati (of cource by a company in Houston). They filed patents for several other natural herbs traditionally grown in India, China and other countries. Then they'd convince the WTO to stop these countries produce the herbs and plants because some American company has the IPR for a gene that makes these natural plants medicainal.

BS and more BS. This is what America will try to do in Telecom. May not be with China (I am not sure I can trust this country, I can explain that later) but with others form countries like India, Japan, Russia. In a decade from now, we'll find companies like CSCO filing for patents for already existing products from these countries' Telecom companies. But by that time, the markets in India and China would be so large that even WTO can't do shit for US to make these countreis bullied. you get it? all this stealing allegations will someday become pointless because, neither companies like CSCO can affrod to piss off their lone highvalued markets nor that such whinings make any impact in international law. So keep making the money West! The Sun is about set becasue the Asian markets will flourish, partly because counntries like India do not participate in Violent and imperial movements like the middle-east/pakistan and of course Uncle Sam (Countries like Pakistan, Saudi Arabia etc are your country's Terro allies right?)
greyhair
greyhair
12/5/2012 | 1:21:23 AM
re: Huawei Fires Supercomm Snooper
"I'm amazed at the fact that nobody can spell correctly on this board"

I wonder if it is a common trend among telecom people, not just this board:)

==================================================

It is an outgrowth of the IRC culture.

Hey LightReading, can't you add a spell check
application to your article post software? My web based mail client supports spell check/correction.

I guess all these optical networking based companies are trying to conserve cash any way they can....
greyhair
greyhair
12/5/2012 | 1:21:23 AM
re: Huawei Fires Supercomm Snooper
> 80 years ago, the US copied all technology from Europe.

I think not. Possibly 180 years ago, but by 1924, the USA was quite self sufficient, to the point of being isolationist. The horrors of WWI were still fresh in the nations memory and separation from old Europe was seen as the only way to avoid being caught up in future conflicts.

The USA had far surpassed the rest of the world in manufacturing technology by the early 1900s (led by Henry Ford). The rest of the world was still using craft based manufacturing techniques to a large extent.

You can argue the merits of quality and so on and the effects of resource consumption, but mass production brought items like cars, tractors, and appliances to the common person at a price that the common person could afford.
lightbay
lightbay
12/5/2012 | 1:21:24 AM
re: Huawei Fires Supercomm Snooper
80 years ago, the US copied all technology from Europe. 60 years ago Japan copied everything from the west. 20 years ago Korea copied everything from Japan.

At the beginning, it was compaints, but once they made it to the top of the game, people would accept the fact. and try to pick up the next one.

Do you think the Africans can start inventing from scratch, beginning from Newton's law, or is this necessary ? European countries copied from each other all the time, otherwise, how could the Germans surpass Brits in a short time ?

Someday, the fact is before you could invent anything, you spend 6+6+4 years absorbing. Or a few more years counting graduate school.

BTW, the Soviet helped kick start CHina's nuclear program during 59-60, then China did its own to finish it in 66. I am not saying the Russian help was not important, it was important just like your elementary school education is important. But when China did its hydrogen bomb during 67-71, can you still say they stole it from Soviet ? no, they got enough experience and done it on its own (part of the reason is the Soviet help to kick start the program).
Balet
Balet
12/5/2012 | 1:21:27 AM
re: Huawei Fires Supercomm Snooper
Sorry,

What helps a lot if people site the one they reply to, right?
Balet
Balet
12/5/2012 | 1:21:27 AM
re: Huawei Fires Supercomm Snooper
watcher10 wrote: You were obviously educated in China.

Yes, I am obviously educated in China, which is next to Estonia and Finland (about an 1.5 hr drive from each). I hope it answer your geography interest.

About nuclear power, I though we were talking about telecom. From my personal experience, first idea exchange between China (where I was educated in fiber optics) and Russia in fiber optics area restarted around 1986.
I know a few chinese who studied in USSR in late 50s-early 60s. I don't know any chinese who had anything to do with USSR starting from late early 60s, during Kruschev's last years and early Berzhnev's era. Do you?
watcher10
watcher10
12/5/2012 | 1:21:27 AM
re: Huawei Fires Supercomm Snooper
My comments were a followup to something PGM
wrote. They were not directed at you (Balet).
watcher10
watcher10
12/5/2012 | 1:21:29 AM
re: Huawei Fires Supercomm Snooper
You were obviously educated in China.

In the 1950s, the USSR provided China with a
research nuclear reactor. The USSR also built
and designed the facilities that China
used to both process and enrich uranium. The
USSR also provided a large number of scientific
advisors to China who transfered most of the
technology needed for nuclear weapons.

Nuclear assistance to China continued until 1959
or 1960. Without the assistance of the soviet
union, China's nuclear program would have taken
many more years to build a bomb.

telecomvalleydotnet
telecomvalleydotnet
12/5/2012 | 1:21:32 AM
re: Huawei Fires Supercomm Snooper
I'm amazed at the fact that nobody can spell correctly on this board.
Balet
Balet
12/5/2012 | 1:21:32 AM
re: Huawei Fires Supercomm Snooper
yikes_stripes wrote: "PGM, they got all that tech from the Russians during the Cold War, dude!"

As far as I remember the word China was not allowed in USSR from early 70s till late 80s.
I also believe that it was hard to get any tech from russians. Russian state of telecom sucked during the Cold War. Only the weakest students were sent to telecom schools.
Balet
Balet
12/5/2012 | 1:21:32 AM
re: Huawei Fires Supercomm Snooper
"I'm amazed at the fact that nobody can spell correctly on this board"

I wonder if it is a common trend among telecom people, not just this board:)
Balet
Balet
12/5/2012 | 1:21:32 AM
re: Huawei Fires Supercomm Snooper
You really got mad!
Photon_Got_Mad
Photon_Got_Mad
12/5/2012 | 1:21:33 AM
re: Huawei Fires Supercomm Snooper
"they got them from the good old USA"
"Ooh, No? they must got it from the Russians!"

"Ooh, No? at that time they were under USSR blockade? Well, they must got it from the Marsians"

"China will never have the brain power to develop a transport or data product, I am sure!"
Balet
Balet
12/5/2012 | 1:21:35 AM
re: Huawei Fires Supercomm Snooper
I don't understand why everyone is so much against of what Huawei did or does.
As far as I know many telecom companies, especially in component/subsystem world go to Huawei to happily give their samples to "tier 1 customer", finding later that some small chinese outfit manufacture their products in 3 months for Huwaei.
There is nothing wrong with that for Huawei, since it is a part of the culture. It's OK to do that! It is not against any moral standards.

I suggest to US companies to stop shipping anything to Huawei and talking to them. Then, may be the reverse engineering will slow down.
yikes_stripes
yikes_stripes
12/5/2012 | 1:21:36 AM
re: Huawei Fires Supercomm Snooper
PGM, they got all that tech from the Russians during the Cold War, dude!
digerato
digerato
12/5/2012 | 1:21:37 AM
re: Huawei Fires Supercomm Snooper
"Didn't Cisco drop the lawsuit recently? If the copying was as blatant as you say it was, why did Cisco drop the lawsuit?"

No, Huawei *settled* the lawsuit. They dropped the hardware, removed the IOS code they'd copied, and generally did everything Cisco had demanded.

Doesn't look good for an IPO if you're being sued for copying someone's box...

"What's wrong with copying Cisco's bugs? I thought that was necessary to sell products."

This perennial whine has nothing to do with product bugs that are the result of cut-and-pasting the original Cisco code, warts and all.

Cheers,

Digerato
Photon_Got_Mad
Photon_Got_Mad
12/5/2012 | 1:21:38 AM
re: Huawei Fires Supercomm Snooper
"That is how this company has gained all their technology."

You must believe that any Chinese achievements in any area is through stealing, including the Atomic bomb, Satallite they launched 30 years ago and all the economic establishment over the last 20 years.

How is your brain that larger and smarter than anybody else?
shenshu
shenshu
12/5/2012 | 1:21:41 AM
re: Huawei Fires Supercomm Snooper
I would agree that the practice of stealing and copying competitor's products is no good for the industry as a whole.

However, I recall the history of plunder that lasts ever since human comes to this planet. There was no fair play when western countries started wars to conquer eastern countries. Englishmen ruled India for hundreds of years, and China was invaded by several countries even including Japan.
Wealth were robbed and stealed from these countries without shame.

There will be definitely no fair play when Chinese coming to conquer the economy world.

Want to blame someone? Blame him who created human.
optical
optical
12/5/2012 | 1:21:42 AM
re: Huawei Fires Supercomm Snooper
Why shame on Fujitsu??? Are you saying that this was okay to do? Where is your sense of what is wrong? I'm more alarmed that we have people out there who don't think this is clearly unacceptable behavior and you want to turn it back on the company (Fujitsu) that was wronged. Shame on you OpticalValueLine!
digerato
digerato
12/5/2012 | 1:21:43 AM
re: Huawei Fires Supercomm Snooper
"This poor guy has to be caught and fired. It is sad for him. Any engineer with some technical depth knows that the gut of an optical system is in the system architecture design, in the optical properties of the Tx and Rx, and the complicated firmware. If the IP of a system can be "stolen" by taking a picture, it can be "stolen" as well by looking at."

Well, I'm sure you'll feel the same way when Huawei launches an exact copy of *your* product using the same components and PCB layouts, and firmware that doesn't juse have the same features and CLI as yours, but also the same bugs. Until Cisco sued them, it was possible to pop the lid on a Huawei "Quidway refiner 3600" see that it was a duplicate of the innards of a Cisco 3600, right down to the bugs in IOS. I don't care how you feel about Cisco -- that kind of blatant rip-off is bad for the entire industry.

Of course, if Huawei really is preparing for an IPO, then best to fire the guy. Don't want accusations of being a rip-off merchant taking the shine off the investment bankers' pitch book, do we?

Digerato
jim_smith
jim_smith
12/5/2012 | 1:21:43 AM
re: Huawei Fires Supercomm Snooper
Until Cisco sued them ...

Didn't Cisco drop the lawsuit recently? If the copying was as blatant as you say it was, why did Cisco drop the lawsuit?

... right down to the bugs in IOS.

What's wrong with copying Cisco's bugs? I thought that was necessary to sell products.
Seven
Seven
12/5/2012 | 1:21:44 AM
re: Huawei Fires Supercomm Snooper
Hawaei, has put the entire industries integrity issues out in the open. What integrity? Well, for those who walk that fine line, beware. Hawaei had no shame in their efforts to compete by copying Product Lines of Nortel, Cisco, and whoever else. Their is certain ethical standards the industry must abide by. Once, that line of trust & integrity is crossed by peers of healthy competition. The copying of competitors efforst to Research & Develop by putting in dollars & time is diminished as an industry all together. Developming Knock offs, are not the way to conduct business in an industry that stives to make advancements not detractions like Hawaei or "Cheaters Of The Insustry". I hope the industry will not tolerate this type of Fraudulent behaviors.
OpticalValueLine
OpticalValueLine
12/5/2012 | 1:21:47 AM
re: Huawei Fires Supercomm Snooper
Agree to #3. It is a losers' game. Shame on Fujitsu and the poor guy. But more shame on Lightreading for writting up THREE articles on this stupid issue. This industry has been down to this level.
lrf
lrf
12/5/2012 | 1:21:48 AM
re: Huawei Fires Supercomm Snooper
It is a sad story.
Supercomm is a meeting for suppliers and customers to check each other; it is also a place for all the competitors to check each other and compete. This poor guy has to be caught and fired. It is sad for him.
Any engineer with some technical depth knows that the gut of an optical system is in the system architecture design, in the optical properties of the Tx and Rx, and the complicated firmware. If the IP of a system can be "stolen" by taking a picture, it can be "stolen" as well by looking at. The entry barrier of such system is really too low and it is a shame to show itSupercom. Is it just because a sinking vendor wants to use this incident to blame others? It is sad too for them to do so.
OpticOm
OpticOm
12/5/2012 | 1:21:49 AM
re: Huawei Fires Supercomm Snooper
Reduced pay because he was caught.
Otherwise he would have been promoted...
dc_optics
dc_optics
12/5/2012 | 1:21:50 AM
re: Huawei Fires Supercomm Snooper
That is how this company has gained all their technology. They have to steal to compete. So sad.
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