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Optical/IP

Huawei Builds Euro Backbone

Huawei Technologies Co. Ltd. has struck again in Europe, this time with an unnamed carrier that has extended its network to 14 points of presence (POPs) in burgeoning central Europe.

The Chinese vendor has already had some foot-in-the-door success with operators in Western Europe, such as BT Group plc (NYSE: BTY; London: BTA) and Fibernet Group plc (London: FIB). And it claims to have equipment in use by all the major incumbent national operators in the region (see Huawei Gets BT's Blessing and Huawei Springs Surprises).

Now a source involved with this latest network says Huawei is the sole supplier of core switches for a 14-POP network expansion covering at least Austria, Germany, the Czech Republic, and Slovakia. The construction was completed by German integrator Vierling, which says the network is already live, and that the main POPS are in Frankfurt, Munich, Prague, Bratislava, and Vienna.

The identity of the carrier, though, has not been revealed, and Huawei declines outright to talk about the project.

Nick McMenemy, head of strategy and business-critical operations at pan-European operator Interoute Telecommunications, says his company isn't the buyer. He's been crawling over network assets and ongoing operations in that part of the world recently looking for network assets to buy on the cheap, a practice that has become commonplace in Europe (see Cogent Adds to Euro Empire, Linx Links the Baltics, and Interoute Acquires Ebone).

McMenemy says Interoute is only expanding through acquisitions, rather than new network expansion, as there are plenty of assets available to buy, it's cheaper, and it's a quicker way to get up and running in a new market.

McMenemy's comments, though, imply that whoever the carrier is, it is likely running a healthy business to be able to afford outright expansion. "It only makes sense to build out if you know you'll have revenues greater than the cost of building and running the network -- you have to make a profit," he says. "The days of build-and-they-will-come are over, thank goodness. It's about building to demand these days."

— Ray Le Maistre, International Editor, Boardwatch

sigint 12/5/2012 | 2:05:24 AM
re: Huawei Builds Euro Backbone Now if you are in india and are offered 3x india
wages to work huge amounts of hours to a point
where you have no life, its not worth it. If
you are obsessed with money and willing to work
unlimited hours, there are better situations
out there. And probably better careers.
__________________________________________________

3x salary markups were primarily for folks that had been involved in Cisco IOS testing at services companies like Cisco, Infosys and HCL.

Culturally, I'm told, this company was very different from American or even home-grown Indian companies. There was no need to tolerate dissent, it was unheard of!

The company did toss bucketloads of cash into the employment market at that time (height of the bubble), but I don't think they made much headway. The preferred destination remained the US for the average engineer, the H1-B the magic wand that delivered you misery.
truelight 12/5/2012 | 2:05:33 AM
re: Huawei Builds Euro Backbone
Huawei is just "cheap" on all accounts. This is their culture. It is an illusion that they are quality and pay anyone well.
coreghost 12/5/2012 | 2:05:34 AM
re: Huawei Builds Euro Backbone Well, we are talking about 3 times, not 30% more! Think about this, if a small no name company pays you $300K, while Intel pays you $100K, where do you go ? do you care about Intel's famous name ? Plus, how would Huawei constantly threating its employees not to slow up


Well, first its three times more in India. Or
it was actually at first. Now its like 20% more
according to one report at least.

Now if you are in india and are offered 3x india
wages to work huge amounts of hours to a point
where you have no life, its not worth it. If
you are obsessed with money and willing to work
unlimited hours, there are better situations
out there. And probably better careers.

If your talking 3x american wages, its a
different calculation. But Huawei isn't out
offering 3x to anyone in NA.
Indy_lite 12/5/2012 | 2:05:43 AM
re: Huawei Builds Euro Backbone If they pay you 3X and then demand 3X the work
with the threat of being discarded if you even
think of slowing up, its not worth it


Well, we are talking about 3 times, not 30% more! Think about this, if a small no name company pays you $300K, while Intel pays you $100K, where do you go ? do you care about Intel's famous name ? Plus, how would Huawei constantly threating its employees not to slow up
coreghost 12/5/2012 | 2:05:44 AM
re: Huawei Builds Euro Backbone Vow, I would work for any company if it pays 3X compared to competitors ... be it Cisco or 3COM, Yahoo or Google, Oracle or Siebel


If they pay you 3X and then demand 3X the work
with the threat of being discarded if you even
think of slowing up, its not worth it.

Its also doesn't work it if they make it clear that
they are using you, have no respect for you,
don't trust you to make decisions, watch you
closely all the time and would never promote
you.


Indy_lite 12/5/2012 | 2:05:47 AM
re: Huawei Builds Euro Backbone When they came in 2000 they paid 3x as none wanted to work for them. Lots of people joined/left in 3-6 months.

Vow, I would work for any company if it pays 3X compared to competitors ... be it Cisco or 3COM, Yahoo or Google, Oracle or Siebel
truelight 12/5/2012 | 2:05:51 AM
re: Huawei Builds Euro Backbone Camster nice post on the "real" company situation.
camster 12/5/2012 | 2:05:52 AM
re: Huawei Builds Euro Backbone
I am in a very opportune position to speak on Huawei, being a former employee, and also very knowledgeable of its intricacies

Let's have a clearer picture of Huawei...

Founded in 1988 by Ren Zheng Fei with USD 1000, it begn by reselling PABX systems in China, and only entered the international market in 1998. So, the 2003 revenue of USD 3.83 billion is indeed remarkable.

Huawei has a great pricing strategy, and is willing to make changes to accomodate customer requests, which makes it very attractive, coupled with Huawei'd modus-operandi of providing free trials...i.e. test trials with no cost whatsoever, and also willing to build up the infrastructure for the operator first, with repayment kicking in once the operator reports revenue or profit.

As you can see, there are many plus points of Huawei.

Only it has an equally ugly dark side. For one, it treats it's foreign employees terribly (mind u, I was based in China), the management not at all trusting their sub-ordinates. Examples of this can be seen in th closure of the Iran office.

Then there is the products... mostly sent out to the customer sites without much testing... much to the chagrin of the technical support engineers... having to be "marketeers" to sweet talk the operators/customers.

To keep it short(having talked too much already), Huawei has the potential to become world-class, but first they have to completely discard their current mentality, realise that their employees (not only Chinese) are their greatest assets and keep up the fairly good work.

yamdoot 12/5/2012 | 2:05:53 AM
re: Huawei Builds Euro Backbone Huawei doesn't sell much in India
but has a large dev centre - software.

When they came in 2000 they paid 3x
as none wanted to work for them.
Lots of people joined/left
in 3-6 months. Lots of reasons
why. Most didn't like the inflexible
working hours. Biggest reason of all was
that nothing went into the system
unless a chinese signed off saying
he had understood what the indian
engg had done. Imagine what
that does to cycle time ...

Now they pay 20% above mkt, have a large
team but also large turnover. They like to
hire even the most inept from the big
names like motorola/lucent/cisco/sun.
truelight 12/5/2012 | 2:05:56 AM
re: Huawei Builds Euro Backbone shen good balanced post. Huawei reputation as viewed from the west needs to improve somewhat.

truelight 12/5/2012 | 2:05:57 AM
re: Huawei Builds Euro Backbone optoslob = Huawei employee of the month.
optoslob 12/5/2012 | 2:05:58 AM
re: Huawei Builds Euro Backbone Vlady, sorry to hear that your experience working for Huawei was so negative. I have never been an employee of Huawei only a component supplier, a US component supplier. As a supplier I want to be associated with a company that is growing and interested in new and cheaper ways to do produce a given piece of equipment. Huawei is making huge market share gains in DSL (cost per port) and in the costs of enterprise network systems. They are gaining respect world wide and have the right cost model to be attractive in todays telecom market.

optoslob
truelight 12/5/2012 | 2:06:00 AM
re: Huawei Builds Euro Backbone EOM

They are without doubt a threat to the western eco system in communications netwroks. CISCO will try fight them but it's difficult to stop a company that does not obey international copyright and IP laws !

If any customers are reading this email thread please make sure you are public about using them in your network.



st0 12/5/2012 | 2:06:01 AM
re: Huawei Builds Euro Backbone dado,
you miss the point.... cooperative research and development between the company (such as state run Airbus) is much efficient than competition.... particularly, compare with the HIGH OVERHEAD competition (everything is measured, re-checked, cost cutted, bean counted to get the last bit out of the it....) The OVERHEAD usually ignored when you calculated efficiency and burried some places required SEC to digged out (how many companies have to re-statement of earning?). WCOM story come into mind...fake competition that doomed many company...artificial number exist because the money were spent in the OVERHEAD, not the real R&D (very difficult to fake the R&D, can't demo or GR qual a fake, can you?).

-st
dadofamunky 12/5/2012 | 2:06:01 AM
re: Huawei Builds Euro Backbone 1) There may be some correlation.

2) That is VERY interesting. Huawei having a collectivist culture? That has significance for me, let me tell you. Also interesting that their average salaries are so high. Is this is a coincidence, given that the Chinese military gets first call on all resources from the state? Just wondering.

3) Also correct that Huawei is definitely on the move. And interesting that both you and your wife have a view into their system.

4) If what you say is true, then there is a logical connection, and of course countries should be free to support their own enterprises within reason. However, I still doubt that things are precisely as you state; there are persistent rumours of Huawei's deep connections to the Chinese military.

A good e-mail, as opposed to the agitprop of some others.
shen 12/5/2012 | 2:06:02 AM
re: Huawei Builds Euro Backbone Don't you think this is the same line perhaps being said some 40 years ago on Japanese auto or home electronics manufacturers: low quality, cheap, me-too products?

As a chinese, I have lived in china for many years. Personally, I don't like Huawei b/c their corporate culture is extremely collectivism. As such, I chose to work in other multinationals such as Nortel and Lucent. But I have to tell you I worked much less harder than many of my university classmates who work in Huawei. And in fact, I made much less than them. On average, my classmates made US$2,500 per month, plus the year-end bonus which were about 1x of their annual base salary. Yes, Cisco engineers made much more in the U.S., but I can say with all confidence that engineers in Huawei, on average, are highest paid among all telecom companies, local or multinationals in china.

Just given you a sense how fast Huawei has expanded globally. My wife is still working in china in a U.S. network management software company. One and a half years ago, Huawei's product managers had to beg my wife's company to include Huawei's gears into their software. Now my wife's company's software sale in BT is at stake if Huawei's equipment still can not be managed.

Just fyi, Huawei is indeed a private company. At one point during the company's starting up, Huawei had hard time to secure the much-needed bank loan to pay for their R&D projects. The reason, you might be surprised, is simply the fact that Huawei is a private company. Banks (they are actually totally backed up by the government, and therefore are doing so poorly) were only allowed to make loans to state-owned enterprises (communism system). Now everything has changed, banks are lining up to make loans to Huawei. Once the government saw the phenomenal growth of Huawei, much higher than its state-owned counterparts (ZTE for example), they started to change their opinions. Now, yes, the government supports Huawei in terms of encouraging Huawei's exportation to other countries. But I see nothing wrong here. Every country has to support its own enterprises. The CDMA network built up in China was purely resulting from the pressure and lobby efforts from the U.S government. The purpose is simply, to put Lucent, Motorola and Qualcomm into the door.

I think the top dogs at cisco are not stupid. They take Huawei very seriously. Facts will eventually speak of themselve.

Shen
dadofamunky 12/5/2012 | 2:06:04 AM
re: Huawei Builds Euro Backbone Disagree strongly. They work hard and spend a little not because Huawei has any particular virtue (I submit that it doesn't) but because a) they have very little to SPEND, being paid #@%$ like virtually every worker in China; b) because they WORK FOR A TOTALITARIAN STATE!

Also, just have a LITTLE skepticism, will you? The Soviets had a good term for their technique of presenting a beneficial front while continuing
to crush dissent - Maskirovka. I submit the Chinese government does much the same thing. After all, Huawei is a model enterprise for them. Do any of you really KNOW what goes on there? Despite your visits and claims to having worked there, I submit you don't. There have been rumors in the free press that Huawei is a front for the PRC's military establishment. But it is impossible to ask the powers that be whether or not that is true. Meanwhile, they present a pleasant, accommodating face to the world.

Hello out there! Remember? Has the PRC government ever been legitimately elected? No!

Would YOU want to live under that government? I sure as hell wouldn't!

I wonder how many respondents here are actually e-mailing from mainland China.

--------------------------------------------

well said. if state backed company is the model to follow, why not do so now? why it still beat each other up like gladiator? (Roman ruin is scary thought)....

too much money being spent on ads and power point and CEO salary, too little being used for R&D, particularly, The D side....

Visit Huawei ages ago, these guys work hard and spent a little, no Tyco party at all.... that is the difference....

coreghost 12/5/2012 | 2:06:06 AM
re: Huawei Builds Euro Backbone .....So they have ingredients of a good company unlike the blood sucking, unethical , borderline illegal practices of the likes of cisco et.al....I cannot believe that Cisco, Intel et.al. are even brazenly opposing expensing stock options. This is beyond greed and immoral.


The reason they oppose expensing stock options
is that it will force them to limit stock options
to senior executives. I've never seen a company
yet that stopped giving stock options to senior
executives based on expensing rules. Those
people will get whatever they want regardless
of the accounting rules.

Cisco and Intel have both made large numbers of
ordinary engineers and workers rich over the
past decade or more through stock options.
Executives also got rich, but at least (unlike
Huawei) something was given back to the workers.

I guess everyone is supposed to consider
two successful companies who have been very
generous with their workers to be unethical.

Huawei on the other hand has never been known
to be generous with anyone. I've never heard
anyone who worked for them or with them say
a good word about the experience.







edgesansonet 12/5/2012 | 2:06:07 AM
re: Huawei Builds Euro Backbone Wait a minute...
>>
Huawei is one of the highest paying companies in its local cities(Shenzhen, Beijing, Bangalore, Richardson).
>>

That is news to me.
Banglore has an office of Huawei! Duh!
Since when did China outsource to India?
Looks like one those classis algorithmic problems... A outsources to B...B outsources to C...now, C can outsource partly to A and D.. and so on.
What the heck?

AFAIK, there is no difference between the turbanned Taliban and the heebeegeebee Huawei.
Bomb them both.

edgesansonet 12/5/2012 | 2:06:08 AM
re: Huawei Builds Euro Backbone rolostar_maam,
>> Better engineered products at lower price..

Better engineered....do you mean nicely copied?

ESS
st0 12/5/2012 | 2:06:08 AM
re: Huawei Builds Euro Backbone dado said:
"Similar parallels exist in the airline industry where Boeing competes against a state-backed company called Airbus (who happens to be cleaning Boeing's clock right now)."
======
well said. if state backed company is the model to follow, why not do so now? why it still beat each other up like gladiator? (Roman ruin is scary thought)....

too much money being spent on ads and power point and CEO salary, too little being used for R&D, particularly, The D side....

Visit Huawei ages ago, these guys work hard and spent a little, no Tyco party at all.... that is the difference....

-st
dadofamunky 12/5/2012 | 2:06:09 AM
re: Huawei Builds Euro Backbone You're a suck-up for dictators, otherwise known as a "useful idiot." Maybe you should read up on exactly how the Chinese government operates. There is ample information available. But willful ignorance is not interested in the facts based in the real world. Beyond greed and immoral, my eye.
OK, great, I too like the idea of lining the pockets of people who profit off the backs of slave labor.

Huawei is state-run. That means that a totalitarian government, one with the blood of Tienanmen on its hands, which crime it has never answered for and will never so long as dissent is crushed in that country, is profiting directly from people like you.

Similar parallels exist in the airline industry where Boeing competes against a state-backed company called Airbus (who happens to be cleaning Boeing's clock right now). Ostensibly, a state-run enterprise has advantages that private companies don't - such as not having to answer to shareholders for unmet financial goals and bearing no fiduciary responsibility. Fortunately, Airbus is sponsored by a country with at least tenuous credentials as a member of the free world.

State-run enterprises are nothing new. They are a direct form of socialism. If you don't have a problem buying networking equipment from a company that pays its workers incredibly low wages and breaks every WTO trade bylaw, I guess all that is perfectly all right. It sure as hell is not OK by me, regardless of Cisco's peccadilloes. At least Cisco assumes some risk in the marketplace and bears fiduciary responsibility. It also, last I checked, never massacred thousands of innocent Chinese protesters.

Oh, and by the way, expensing stock options will jsut ensure that only the top kicks get them. Guys like you and me will never get them again. So much for working 12-16 hour days. How else will startups motivate their workers to put out the effort to create something new? Do you have an answer for that question? Watch out for the unintended consequences of this wrongheaded ukase by the FASB. I hope Congress manages to vote down this POS.

--------------------------------------------------

So what if it is state run? That simply means the company is not in a hurry to meet some artificially set qtrly revenue goals/forecasts. They take their time to engineer the products, test them, and not cut corners. They are also not under any pressure to get extra greedy wrt margins, cost-cutting, layoffs, .....So they have ingredients of a good company unlike the blood sucking, unethical , borderline illegal practices of the likes of cisco et.al....I cannot believe that Cisco, Intel et.al. are even brazenly opposing expensing stock options. This is beyond greed and immoral.
rolostar_madam 12/5/2012 | 2:06:11 AM
re: Huawei Builds Euro Backbone FalseLight,
If you think your job is safe at Cisco then you are smoking you know what? You are more likely to get laid off at Cisco and other big unethical american companies. As for the state contracts for Huawei, the same applies to all big american companies who bribe local/city/state/national govt officials to win contracts. At least the CEO's and top exec's of Huawei are not stealing tens and hundreds of millions of dollars worth of inflated and hyped-up stock options ill-gotten gains.
mdwdm 12/5/2012 | 2:06:11 AM
re: Huawei Builds Euro Backbone Whoever you are, I agree that Huawei is
guilty of driving you into insane.

Huawei is as bad as cisco in term of driving
people crazy.
Indy_lite 12/5/2012 | 2:06:13 AM
re: Huawei Builds Euro Backbone I can see from your words that you've never worked for Huawei. Why don't you try the slave way and send your CV to them?

Straight fact - Huawei is one of the highest paying companies in its local cities(Shenzhen, Beijing, Bangalore, Richardson). But its employees have to work hard, or could be easily fired.

they have at least 12000 working for development, well, if you find more than 500 please let me know ... talking to some employee, and don't speak stupid things

I guess you think you know everything already!! (most of which are stupid things)
vlady 12/5/2012 | 2:06:13 AM
re: Huawei Builds Euro Backbone I was also working for Huawei for about 2 years and a half, and this take my good times with no improvement in my professional career, and not because of me.
Let me tell you something, when i tried to start my MBA studies to give to me and to the company added value, i receive a : it's not important for us. So, what the company really wants, just to win market with very low costs, doing poor quality equipments, stealing software developments, and paying very low costs in employees. So, for Chinese Huawei managers, the only important is to save costs, they don't care about the human quality, and good expertise and professionalism.
So, from your words, i can see that you are one of the low quality engineers/slave of Huawei, I'm sorry for that.
Also, of course all China says that Huawei is a private company, otherwise they could not win foreign market, but they have big credits from the chinese goverment, so, all chinese people are paying the near future bankrupt of their own goverment system.
Cisco is not a good example also, in fact, Capitalism is "out of service", we, the young engineers are responsible to change this world, and buying Huawei or Cisco is not the way.
vlady 12/5/2012 | 2:06:14 AM
re: Huawei Builds Euro Backbone I can see from your words that you've never worked for Huawei.
Why don't you try the slave way and send your CV to them?.
Also, Huawei says that they are big, that they have at least 12000 working for development, well, if you find more than 500 please let me know, the rest are partner companies that give confidential software developments illegally from other vendors.
Please, before to speak, investigate some more, try talking to some employee, and don't speak stupid things.
truelight 12/5/2012 | 2:06:14 AM
re: Huawei Builds Euro Backbone how true lets see Huwai attempt to gopublic and disclose what the GM really is. IMO its negative.
lite-brite 12/5/2012 | 2:06:17 AM
re: Huawei Builds Euro Backbone 'Cisco has great gross margins Cisco suppliers don't.'

A great truism!
truelight 12/5/2012 | 2:06:18 AM
re: Huawei Builds Euro Backbone Pelease,

Huawei is no different than Cisco or Lucent except. The China market is protected there as heavily as Cisco protects else where.

The cost-cutting and lay-offs are not an issue in CHINA since the standards of living are low compared to the west and the ASIA market continues to grow. However unless your a Chinese engineer I don't see them employing many folks in the West do you ?

rolostar_madam 12/5/2012 | 2:06:30 AM
re: Huawei Builds Euro Backbone So what if it is state run? That simply means the company is not in a hurry to meet some artificially set qtrly revenue goals/forecasts. They take their time to engineer the products, test them, and not cut corners. They are also not under any pressure to get extra greedy wrt margins, cost-cutting, layoffs, .....So they have ingredients of a good company unlike the blood sucking, unethical , borderline illegal practices of the likes of cisco et.al....I cannot believe that Cisco, Intel et.al. are even brazenly opposing expensing stock options. This is beyond greed and immoral.
optoslob 12/5/2012 | 2:06:30 AM
re: Huawei Builds Euro Backbone I've worked extensively with Huawei for about 3 years and have nothing but good things to say about the company.

Sure they are cost focused, but what's bad about that! especially when they pass these savings on to their customers. Compare this with Cisco where they beat up suppliers on costs and deliver no additional volume, Cisco has great gross margins Cisco suppliers don't.

Huawei is a very innovative company and has a clear idea of what a 21st century communications network should look like, fortunately it's customers are not RBOC's so it is free of the Class 5 baggage and any concept that Ma Bell is the source of all good ideas in telecom. If you think Cisco will just wake-up one day and stomp Huawei, like some little roach, than boy are you smoking something that you shouldn't be. Cisco can't defeat Huawei in any market place where price rules (read Asia and almost any emerging Telecom opportunity). As this article says it is cheaper today to Buy than Build Telecom capacity, so anyone that is building is looking for a bargain and talking to Huawei.

optoslob


truelight 12/5/2012 | 2:06:31 AM
re: Huawei Builds Euro Backbone It the chinese govt backing that is the interesting part. So is it private or is is state run ?
truelight 12/5/2012 | 2:06:31 AM
re: Huawei Builds Euro Backbone Indy-lite = Chinese
Jo-bar 12/5/2012 | 2:06:33 AM
re: Huawei Builds Euro Backbone Possibly GTS from Prague is the owner of the network.

Servus :)

Jo-Bar
Johnny G 12/5/2012 | 2:06:36 AM
re: Huawei Builds Euro Backbone And the Boogie man still comes out after dark.

Any fool knows Huawei is a private company, where do you get these comments.

Its often best not to comment unless you have the facts.
Indy_lite 12/5/2012 | 2:06:36 AM
re: Huawei Builds Euro Backbone If you know anything sensible about this company. you would not say. Huawei is a Chinese govt state backed company.

If this statement shows anything about Truelight, it would be: http://www.lightreading.com/bo...

truelight 12/5/2012 | 2:06:40 AM
re: Huawei Builds Euro Backbone Really Indy you comment shows hoe much you do not know about the industry.

Out of the frying pan into the fire.

lite on knowledge and experience, lite on character and integrity.
truelight 12/5/2012 | 2:06:40 AM
re: Huawei Builds Euro Backbone If you know anything sensible about this company. you would not say. Huawei is a Chinese govt state backed company.
rolostar_madam 12/5/2012 | 2:06:43 AM
re: Huawei Builds Euro Backbone Huawei is giving Cisco and other greedy overpriced vendor's a run for their money. True capitalism is here now and it is good for all of us consumers. Better engineered products at lower price. I hope Huwaei kicks Cisco's you know what?:)
Indy_lite 12/5/2012 | 2:06:43 AM
re: Huawei Builds Euro Backbone TrueLight == true idiot!!
truelight 12/5/2012 | 2:06:44 AM
re: Huawei Builds Euro Backbone Idiot !
Indy_lite 12/5/2012 | 2:06:51 AM
re: Huawei Builds Euro Backbone Huawei, keep it going.

All other companies in the developing countries, Huawei sets a good model. Work hard, you can achieve it, just like Samsung did, LG did...
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