Optical/IP Networks

Cisco Piles Pressure on Huawei

With a damning report from the U.S. House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence creating global headlines, Huawei Technologies Co. Ltd. 's damage limitation team will be very focused on the here and now. (See US vs Huawei/ZTE: The Verdict.)

But being in the spotlight means past skirmishes can also be revived to pile on the pressure.

The Chinese vendor has had its fair share of scrapes but the most notorious is the intellectual property run-in with Cisco Systems Inc. (Nasdaq: CSCO) in 2003-2004, an incident still regularly cited by telecom industry executives when Huawei's development as a company is discussed. (See Cisco Drops Huawei Suit and Cisco/Huawei Lawsuit on Hold.)

Now that case is back in play following a public statement by Charles Ding, Huawei's senior vice president and chief representative in the U.S., that spawned a blog post by Mark Chandler, senior vice president, general counsel and secretary of Cisco.

As Chandler explains in this blog, dated Oct. 1, Ding's version of events did not match the details contained in court and corporate reports. So he challenged Huawei to clear up the matter once and for all by publishing the full details that have, until now, been kept under wraps by both parties.

With nothing forthcoming from Huawei, Chandler took to his blog again on Oct. 11 to "set forth the facts" that counter Ding's statements that "misstate the facts and therefore merit a direct, factually accurate and proportionate response."

You can read that blog here. Needless to say it does not cover Huawei in glory.

And it seems this is not the end of the matter. Chandler is still encouraging Huawei to "publish the full Neutral Expert's Final Report in order to clarify what actually happened in the litigation, overcome any confusion and demonstrate their purported transparent business practices and respect for intellectual property rights."

— Ray Le Maistre, International Managing Editor, Light Reading

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cw.774 12/5/2012 | 5:19:15 PM
re: Cisco Piles Pressure on Huawei

apples = Nat. secrutiy

oranges = IP theft


Apples and oranges mix in politics and pub. perception ... but  NEVER in MY WORK for some reason.  

Folks shine a light on the ROT here, which surely got buried ('the sudden silnce was after deals were done was a mystery to me, more media failure at it's best, but anyway...).

Why does it come back now?  What imortant world event comes up soon... like this November, hmmm....


Tech and business guys don't see the use in the efforts used pitting global corporations against each other in courts, OR nations against each other. Governemnt just plays gatekeeprs and police.  IF YOU think I'm wrong, then tell me what the hell is really going on here?!

paolo.franzoi 12/5/2012 | 5:19:14 PM
re: Cisco Piles Pressure on Huawei

Bad press on a competitor seems like a good thing.  You were the one that put November in your first post.



cw.774 12/5/2012 | 5:19:14 PM
re: Cisco Piles Pressure on Huawei

no ethertype, that's clearly crazy talk you Obama obsessed types always come up with.   The world is bigger than Obama and we all know that.

I'm trying to stimulate a thought form others, perhaps from an angle I may have missed, after reading this article.  (and thanks for nothing by the way)

ethertype 12/5/2012 | 5:19:14 PM
re: Cisco Piles Pressure on Huawei

What's your point?  Are you alleging that Obama somehow got Huawei to lie about the Cisco settlement in order to create a controversy that would make China look bad?  Get a grip, dude.

gtchavan 12/5/2012 | 5:19:12 PM
re: Cisco Piles Pressure on Huawei

Here are the facts: Google is spending $700 million a quarter in capex.   That is easily equivalent of $1.4 billion of capex if it were granded to a regular a bare bones moneyloosing networking company and this number is growing.  Given that no one is challenging them on thier IPs who knows how much in IP is costing the rest of the networking industry.  They are also competing with the Telco's and ISPs on thier turf so they are taking the top line from your customer's dollars.   The value your customers, Telco's and ISP's from thier hardware CAPEX, effectively half of what Google gets from their internal developments so your customers can not compete with Google in fair competition.  Google networking operations has been growing steadily year over year while the rest of the North American networking industry in decline.  If you all continue to giving them a pass, none of you going to be around to give them a pass in a couple of years.

paolo.franzoi 12/5/2012 | 5:19:12 PM
re: Cisco Piles Pressure on Huawei


Are you high?

Who cares if Google copies 100% of anybody's design for internal use.  Let's see 1% of global capex just escaped.  Maybe but probably less than that, probably a LOT less than that.  And let's see 0% of Wireless Capex just got impacted.

The chances of that impacting anyone's bottom line is slim and none.  Okay forget slim - he left the building - NONE.



gtchavan 12/5/2012 | 5:19:12 PM
re: Cisco Piles Pressure on Huawei

Pull your head out of your collective you-know-where's and realize who is killing you.  It is not huawei.  Huawei is an open book, you can buy their hardware and figure exactly what they are doing and by now you better have made your cost structure same as Huawei or you are out of business and if you are concerned about Chinese government is handing them suit cases of cash to put you out business don't worry once they go public they will become as transparent as the rest of you.

I contend it is Google who is killing you.  Thier boxes are not sold on the market so you can not figure what they are doing.   They have stolen your engineers and told them to build hetworking gear for them and something that started so small and innocent has turned to major industrial operation, bigger than most of your competition.   Do you know how much equivalent of your dollars are they spending, on Networking gear every quarter and are you sure they have not coppied any of your designs? Do you have industrial spies in Google to figure if they are stealing your intellectual property?  When you idiots greatfully provided Google a system for evaluation, did you ever find out who won the bid? No that is a big secret.  In the past 10 years, didn't anyone in Silicon valley have a hardware that was so cool that was worth buying the company for? No because you are all using Merchant chips and they open the box and everything becomes obvious.  Even if you ever sold anything to Google, did the orders stop after a while? Why? Did they somehow could live without your hardware or did they make a bigger and better version themselves?  If Google is so innocent then why they are amassing networking hardware intellctual properties and why did they buy Motorola and why did they not ever buy another networking company before Motorola given all you morans eagerly sent them a ton of evaluation systems.  On top of that, all along they did not have to fully comply with all of the agency hurdles that you go through because they are making a box for internal use in thier supersecret internal data centers which minimizes time-to-intenral-market for them, which helps them to put you out of business faster than any other competition.  

Wake up and smell the coffee. 



paolo.franzoi 12/5/2012 | 5:19:11 PM
re: Cisco Piles Pressure on Huawei



Learn to read the links...AT&T and Verizon are 12% of the GLOBAL TOTAL of Capex.  Thats right...total global capex is over $200B.  Seriously trying to claim that Google is the sole reason that companies can not make money.  Really?

No the reason that telco equipment companies don't make money is really simple.  They are managed for the business environment of the 1990s.



gtchavan 12/5/2012 | 5:19:11 PM
re: Cisco Piles Pressure on Huawei

ATT and Verizon capex on actual hardware is actually 25-30%, the rest goes to the union labor that installs the hardware and other installation expenses.  No hardware maker other than Cisco and Juniper (on a good quarter) is profitable because they can not pay their top employees and executives a decent sallary, they are paying them with RSU's which shows up in negative GAAP earnings quarter after quarter.   Mind you the networking executives make nowhere near what oil companies, drug companies or banks and brokerage firms make given the size of the operations and the headaches associated with running a money losing venture.   With Google taking a 2 billion chunk of capex with an unknown amount of dollars for the intellecutal property this year and more next year, they are choking a big chunck of effective CAPEX on hardware spending in the US.  Google will eventually kill all of the hardware makers in NA, as they get bigger.  They are big pusher of SDN, and that is the death knell of all NA hardware makers and the reason they are pushing for it is because they have no stake in it.  

A parallel to this situation is in the processor business:  Intel realizes that its biggest competition is Apple eventhough the revenue that Intel is losing in processsor business due to Apple's AX chips is miniscule but they know Apple business use of AX processors is growing and diminishing intel sales in their processors.  Unless the network executive realizes that Google is turning to the Apple of Networking you will never be able to defend your turf.  I crindge everytime I hear some dope in sales sent an evaluation to Google and as usual I am never surprised that Google makes a complaint of some sort, max packet size, number of what ever, to reject the sale.  They were never in it to buy.



paolo.franzoi 12/5/2012 | 5:19:11 PM
re: Cisco Piles Pressure on Huawei




Our revised calendar 2012 aggregate capex forecast for AT&T and Verizon is as follows: 1) total capex of about $35 billion, which represents a 2% year-over-year decline versus the 1% decrease in calendar 2011; 2) wireline capex of about $15 billion, which represents a 10% year-over-year decline versus the 8% decline in calendar 2011; and 3) wireless capex of about $20 billion, which represents a 6% year-over-year increase versus the 6% increase in calendar 2011.

Google spends its Capex on Data Centers.  No RAN, No DSL, No real FTTH yet.  So let's go back over the math...

Verizon & AT&T - 35B in Capex (12% of global total estimated)

Google is LESS than 10% of that.

So, get ahold of yourself.  You are completely incorrect.  Google could be GIVEN FOR FREE ALL OF ITS EQUIPMENT and it would not make a damn bit of difference.

Go take a look at who is ACTUALLY losing money.  Turns out it is only a couple of multi-national conglomerates (NSN and ALU).  Pretty much everybody else in the equipment business is making money.  Not as much as they might but they are making money.  Lets go account for the money making companies:  Erriccson, Huawei, ZTE, Cisco, Juniper, Adtran, Tellabs, and the hits keep on coming.  Heck even Ciena is likely to be making money soon.  The problem is NOT that people are making money or not.  The problem is that the situation has changed.  It used to be that people got lots of nice margins for a very long time in places without lots of competition.  Now Routers are the equivalent (margin wise) of screws, nuts and bolts.  Better adjust your expectations, investments and business models.  Otherwise, you will be the next Nortel.




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