x
Optical/IP

Amber Networks Cuts Staff

Amber Networks Inc. blamed the softening economy today as it announced it has laid off about 12 percent of its staff (see Amber Cuts Workforce). The company's headcount now stands at 235 after the layoffs, says Alex Dobrushin, the firm's vice president of marketing.

The layoffs and cost cutting come less than one month after Mike Johnson -- a former Ascend Networks colleague of Amber Networks CEO Sam Mathan -- was brought on board as chief financial officer, a position that had been previously unfilled.

Amber has ambitious plans to compete with Cisco Systems Inc. (Nasdaq: CSCO), among others, in the edge router market. The company is marketing a carrier-class router whose primary feature is redundant routing cards that enable automatic failover. Only five months ago, Amber tripled the size of its corporate headquarters, moving to a 68,500 square-foot facility formerly occupied by Premisys Communications, in Fremont, Calif. (Networking Trivia nugget: Premisys was bought by Zhone Technologies Inc. Zhone is led by Mory Ejabat, the former Ascend CEO who was Mathan's boss at Ascend and who joined Amber Networks' board of directors in August 2000. Kevin Bacon could not be reached for comment.)

In a prepared statement, Mathan said the demand for the firm's products is still strong and the job cuts won't affect its ability to "continue with product deliveries and customer trials as planned."

Amber hasn't publicly said who its customers are, nor has it revealed which firms are evaluating its product. Dobrushin says the company is in "long-term trials" with nine carriers and "some of those are also investors."

Late last summer, the company closed on a $91 million round of financing. Light Reading reported that, given Amber Networks' high-profile board members and financial backers -- which include Williams Communications Group (NYSE: WCG), Enron Corp. (NYSE: ENE), and several investment bankers and venture capitalists -- the firm appeared to be on a fast track for an initial public offering (see Amber Suiting Up for IPO?). As of yet, Amber Networks hasn't made a move in that direction, and the firm hasn't spoken publicly about any new fund-raising efforts either (see System Startups 'Face Tough Year').

Dobrushin says Amber Networks is still fully funded and based its staff cuts only on the reductions in carrier spending.

-- Phil Harvey, Senior Editor, Light Reading http://www.lightreading.com
country_boy 12/4/2012 | 8:08:50 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff litepipe, how can you say that Eagle is completely wrong? Name one network where Amber has a router in production and generating revenue! I've seen these toys in lab racks. They look like something fun to see, touch, and feel if you like to play with little things.

No one is doing well in this market? In the states that would be fact. Have you seen the number of press releases of account wins in the Asia Pacific area? Somebody is selling routers and I haven't seen anything from Amber cross the wire.

I hate to dogpile but you are way off base here. You need to come up with some facts and figures to back all that emotion.
plumpy 12/4/2012 | 8:08:52 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff litepipe

Please stop accusing anyone of being 'short'.
This applies to a public companie's stock. Eagle
may be negative (for good reasons), but he is not
short. If you are missing a basic clue, than
how can we read anything else you post...

Life is short and Art is long.

Art Long
jim_smith 12/4/2012 | 8:08:54 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff "The main impact is revenue. And the only companies that are getting any is Cisco, Juniper, Unisphere, Tiera, and that is about it."

Tiara may also be screwed. One of
their "customers" was BBO. I saw a post that
said that they will have a layoff too.

Eagle: were you Engg or Mgmt at Amber? Did
they give you a raw deal when you were laid off?

Just curious.
litepipe 12/4/2012 | 8:09:01 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff Eagle, u are wrong... Ecuse me, not proven they have a working product... what planet are you on. I see, I feel, I touch... looks real to me. Of course Eagle must have an ax to grind and you are being sucked into his mindless ravings.

No one is doing well at the moment in this market.. ah daugh. But to lam blast Amber is unfair and should be held in the proper prospective... from a person with an ax to grind against Amber or he's selling short.

luv_networking 12/4/2012 | 8:09:20 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff Eagle, u r right and your posts makes real sense regarding this talk..Amber has not really proved that they have a working product(no customer wins to date). I think they also do not offer rich routing features/edge services like what Cisco ,Juniper or Unisphere offers..I read some article back in 99 regarding the hype about Amber(that time everyone thought that they r going to win the edge router space) and they are not successful in this space like Juniper or Unisphere Networks..
My 2 cents
luv_networking
Eagle 12/4/2012 | 8:09:22 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff You guys are pathetic. Who give a sh** about that BS company. Tandem has nothing to do with the relavance of what is going op in the edge router market.

You guys are fools. Talk about what will impact the future of edge router market.

The main impact is revenue. And the only companies that are getting any is Cisco, Juniper, Unisphere, Tiera, and that is about it.

Sorry Sam, you suck, it is obvious, and you lose!

Go home, and don't try again, it is over!

You got lucky once, and remember the quote

"a fool and his money part ways" Sam, take your money and run, that is all you will ever get. You were part of a anomily and you got lucky, that is it, you are not that good, just lucky.

Enjoy the money while you got it!

litepipe 12/4/2012 | 8:09:39 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff Excuse the fat fingers, you are correct, Tandem. And yes I was there (aahh the days of iron). And if I remember correctly Tandom (who started by making drive heads) are now gone.

Sorry for the one letter slip. Fat fingers and low light.
lectronix 12/4/2012 | 8:09:46 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff "As far as the sale of a box, Tandon had the same problem with their fault tollerent nachines at first (i was there), "

You were there? I doubt it. Don't know the name of the company and can't spell. Tandon made disk drives, Tandem (now part of Compaq) makes fault "tollerant" machines.

ranxerox 12/4/2012 | 8:10:06 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff Ian&WanMan wrote

"I was at Amber for a while and I hated it there. There is no opportunity to be creative and they do not want to hear your opinion. There is a lot of preference and politics and only opportunity within the company for certain people. They need good managers and a better work environment."

Boy can I relate. I am at a startup that mirrors these disfunctional selfish and childish traits. Too bad that we still have to deal with the assholes both in and out of work. Such is life. Anyone out there working in a startup that has a good work environment and a viable product? Consider yourself very lucky. Good luck to anyone who takes a risk with startup ventures. Especially in these market conditions.
litepipe 12/4/2012 | 8:10:12 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff Oh, with your bondless knowldge eagle you must be one rich guy, predicting the sales and future of the router market companis and all.

Yes cisco cut their prices, good move on their part but they still face internal problems from the rockjet growth they had.

As far as Ambers RIO, byte me. I like their product.. it is a good product and it's not just me. Are there better, yes in some features but over all I like Ambers product, I like others as well.

I'm not saying Amber is the best but they are good at what they do. Unlike your self that cxan not see any good in Amber. You state "facts" that are opinions at best. Fine, you don't like their product, no problem here. But they aren't the big bad boys (or girls) you try to paint them as.

Get real or at least honest in you posts. Yes you bring up some good points. very few but a few. Over all you are full of BS
kupfi 12/4/2012 | 8:10:15 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff Amber spread the word about the Time Warner trail in SuperComm.

Did you already get information from Time Warner Engineering about the result of the testing?
Eagle 12/4/2012 | 8:10:28 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff connect,

the only insight or wisdom we will get will be from litepipe's wife.

Eagle
Eagle 12/4/2012 | 8:10:28 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff litepipe,

You are right about one thing, "little humor." Or maybe very little humor would be more accurate.

If you know of any companies that likely will buy Amber routers, you better call the sales reps that work there, cause they sure don't know of any.

I agree that fault tollerance is important, so are interfaces and features that help the box's ROI, that means "Return on Investment." Until there are more interfaces and enhanced features, the limited ROI will prevent Amber from getting bought in my opinion based on their web site.

Other will follow, and pass Amber by after selling only a few boxes.

Eagle 12/4/2012 | 8:10:28 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff litepipe,

Cisco is the big bad wolf when they cut their price per port in half and beat everyone in the edge router space. Also, with the slow down, they have huge inventories and price will come down even more. On top of that, they just released a more dense card for their 7206 and now take away Amber's density benefits.

litepipe, stick to what you know best, and thats listening to your wife (per your own posting).
litepipe 12/4/2012 | 8:11:05 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff See, good products.. not long for acceptance in the market place. Every company has growing pains and i'm sure Amber is no different.

Hell Cisco has problems to, bigger debt, accoounting for sales..... better leave that alone for now... key here they are not the big bad wolfe.
lan&WanMan 12/4/2012 | 8:11:11 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff I was at Amber for a while and I hated it there. Development Engineering micro manages everything from the top to the bottom. There is no opportunity to be creative and they do not want to hear your opinion. There is a lot of preference and politics and only opportunity within the company for certain "types" of people. I found it impossible to stay motivated there. The funny thing is that I didn't have to look to find a better job .. it found me! Yes I'm bitter. No, I was not laid off.

Oh yea .. the product: Very good SW set, but the box is too small. I think the company missed it's market opportunity with the current product and will have to have a much larger box (with more flexibility and interfaces) if they want to do well when the industry turns around. I hope I'm wrong and they can pull it off!

The company: They do have some good developers. They need good managers and a better work environment.
connect 12/4/2012 | 8:11:14 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff Eagle is mostly right. Why haven't they had any sales? Share with us your insight and wisdom (or lack there of).
litepipe 12/4/2012 | 8:11:15 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff Sorry for injecting a little humor in my post, I quess you take things way serious, so....

As far as the sale of a box, Tandon had the same problem with their fault tollerent nachines at first (i was there), in fact most new companies sellig a new product face the this problem. The old "no one gets fired for buying IBM" (meaning buy a current leader in the field and you can't be blamed if it doesn't work. However they do have a good concept and product. Addoption by the industry is just when not if.

And by the way I know of companies that are looking at Ambers' products and most likely will buy them. (sorry SEC would not like it if I say more)

Fault tollerant is important.. watch the others follow.

litepipe 12/4/2012 | 8:11:16 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff Sorry for injecting a little humor in my post, I quess you take things way serious, so....

As far as the sale of a box, Tandon had the same problem with their fault tollerent nachines at first (i was there), in fact most new companies sellig a new product face the this problem. The old "no one gets fired for buying IBM" (meaning buy a current leader in the field and you can't be blamed if it doesn't work. However they do have a good concept and product. Addoption by the industry is just when not if.

And by the way I know of companies that are looking at Ambers' products and most likely will buy them. (sorry SEC would not like it if I say more)

Fault tollerant is important.. whatch the others follow.

Eagle 12/4/2012 | 8:11:20 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff litepipe,

If you are counting on your wife's opinion to steer you in the right direction, you are in worse off shape than your misinformed past messages portray you to be.

Word of advise, spend less time with the wife, and more time reading about our industry.

If what you say is true in your last message, please inform me why Amber has not been able to sell one box? If reliability and fault tolerance is so important, why no customer announcements since going GA almost a year ago?

litepipe's wife, feel free to answer above questions if litepipe is at a loss for words.

Eagle
litepipe 12/4/2012 | 8:11:35 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff I agree, they appear to have a seasonded management team (at least the core) they are trimming fat. I think Amber is sitting in a good position at the moment. Thier rivals (1/2 of them) are not nearly in as good as a position. They have taken the right steps and will be moving foward. Fault tlerant equipment will become the norm soon. Reliability is key for operating in this changing environment. Business owners can not have down time like what was "accepted" before. Amber again is headed the right direction. Since my wife has the same opinion and she is always right (;) I must be right...
litepipe 12/4/2012 | 8:11:35 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff BS
94086l 12/4/2012 | 8:12:07 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff If they fire VPS/AVPS/DIRECTORS/MANAGERS(equal to 20% of remaining employees) and may be CEO since he hasn't delievered anything so far, AMBER may last another extra 9 months with the CASH they have now and clean up their act on some more features and interfaces, I think AMBER has a reasonable shot at surviving---A FACT.

Now Looking at their history that is a very unlikely scenario to happen. Hence I will support Eagle in his analysis that no revenue, no profit hence no success. That's why they say. "Numbers don't Lie"-- My opinion
opticguy 12/4/2012 | 8:12:09 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff San,

Amber first FCS was last year. That means, beta testing started sometimes in Sep 2000. Now, 10 months later, after 5 completed releases , with all these "excellent features" like redundancy (6 nine reliability), stable BGP, support for FR/CES/Gige, support for OC12/DS3/DS1, ..... NOT EVEN 1 concrete sale is publicly announced. (sale of 2 boxes to some mom-and-pop ISP in rural Florida at 80% discount is not counted as a concrete sale). You are right, may be the whole marketing department is not competent enough to lead the company to its first sale, which will lead to revenue and ultimately lead to profitability. Keep in mind that the first step does not automatically lead to the second step and to the third step, which is profitability.
Now, even if the CEO and CTO replace the whole marketing group, which I doubt it, they are very close friends, the real question is do they have enought time. I hope Amber will make its first big sale and do well in the future. But with all the facts, I think Amber future will go in the oposite direction ......... shortly.

Next question: Who will be fired first ? The marketing VP or the AVP ?
san 12/4/2012 | 8:12:10 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff But again revenue comes only after being in the market for a while ..right ? only few months back they had released their box. All the other router companies took time right ?
The features in their box -
1) Fault tolerant at Supervisor card level, Line card level and port level is attractive right ?
2) BGP redundancy with above 200 K routes.
3) OSPF/RIP/MPLS/VPN/MLPPP etc etc.
4) More than 1K DS0 ports.
5) All kind of known interface support...frame relay/ATM/ethernet/OC48/DS1/DS0 etc etc.

I believe its the best aggregation router available now. They need a strong Sales and Marketing team who believes in the box more than anything else ..thats my opinion.

---
Eagle 12/4/2012 | 8:12:19 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff BarryP,

I agree with all your facts on their box. However, a few nice features does not sell boxes. In order to get ROI, a service provider needs a comprehensive set of features and interfaces. Amber does not have it.

Regarding you opinion on writing these guys off, I can only base my opinion on what will make them sucessful, and that is revenue leading to profitability.

So far, No customer anouncements; No recongnized revenue information; No Customers saying great things about their boxes. Hence my opinion.

Another fact, several people left their organization prior to the announced 10% layoff. Most of which were employees who had direct customer contact. Again, this adds to my opinion that they will not survive.

If they do, good for them. Maybe someone will come in and buy them. But realistically, I doubt it. I don't know if anyone would spend a bunch of money on a company that cannot generate any revenue.

Again, just my opinion.
barryp 12/4/2012 | 8:13:08 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff From what I can tell, Amber is the only company with a fault-tolerant box. Routers are not all that reliable and they are down 1-2 hours a year average. They also have solid BGP, frame relay over IP and leased line emulation (patented). I wouldn't write these guys off.
Eagle 12/4/2012 | 8:15:10 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff Good news is Time Warner said they are going to buy a few boxes.

Bad news is word from TW Engineering that network deployment is never going to happen.

Should be interesting!

Any comments?

Eagle 12/4/2012 | 8:15:34 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff Kupfi,

You do not miss a beat. Their press release issued a statement that Amber was releasing a new product called the ASR 2010. The 2010 will complement the already released ASR 2010. It was a misprint, but pretty sad they could not even get that right.

In order to get product out the door, they released the ASR 2010 back in December 2000, only 3 of the 4 slots worked on this box. The new press release is supposed to state that the new ASR 2020 now supports all 4 slots. The port density per card did not change at all. Port Density on the box doubled. "Hey everyone, we finally did what we tried to do 8 months ago."

Too late guys. Cisco, Juniper, and Unisphere have since come out with more dense cards and have dropped their price per port big time. No reason to take a chance with a start up router company that may go out of business within the year.

Amber has not recongnized revenue at all on either the ASR 2020 or the 2010.

Another very impressive press release was the fact that they are now partners with another start up that has not sold one box.

kupfi 12/4/2012 | 8:15:38 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff I heard that Amber announced a new product at suppercom that has even lesser port density as the original product?

MeMeNet 12/4/2012 | 8:15:44 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff This is supposed to be the Amber thread.
Eagle 12/4/2012 | 8:15:57 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff Light-Year, any additional info you can add on status of the company besides that incident...beta's, shipping product, customer activity?
LightYears 12/4/2012 | 8:16:01 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff The individual accused of corporate espionage against Lucent was a former employee but he is not the VP of Engineering.
Eagle 12/4/2012 | 8:16:01 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff Harley,

I heard the same thing that maverick is talking about.

optical_maverick 12/4/2012 | 8:16:09 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff yo harley
i think there V.P of engineering was arrested on technology fraud.

mavi
Eagle 12/4/2012 | 8:16:11 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff sour Grape,

"Accordian is going out of business."

List some facts on this. No reason to bash someone unless they deserve it or it is true. If it is true, expand on it.
kupfi 12/4/2012 | 8:16:13 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff "Accordian is going out of business."

Please keep these cryptic pearls of wisdom to yourself unless you want to substantiate them with some (preferably true) piece of information.
yomama 12/4/2012 | 8:16:21 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff I would agree, we got one of their key s/w protocol developers and the reason he said he left RiverDelta was because it was a shorter drive to our startup....duh yeah right...
duedilig 12/4/2012 | 8:16:22 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff River Delta also has a very suspect (i.e. weak) hardware team!
bluey 12/4/2012 | 8:16:24 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff River Delta is on there.... if I remember correctly they just laid a bunch of people off. Tough times.
Eagle 12/4/2012 | 8:16:25 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff I heard that Qwest is going with Juniper on the edge with the M5 & M10. I also heard that they are bring in Avici for the core inside of the Juniper stuff. Sort of like a core of the core. That would leave them with 3 router vendors, Cisco, Juniper, and Avici.

The edge would be filled with Juniper and Cisco. MLPPP is a big app there and Juniper MLPPP is impressive, 128 bundles per M10 with maximum of 672 T-1 per box. And everyone know about the Juniper thru-put advantage! Also, Juniper and Cisco lead the pack with Logical Ports!

Any comments?
Eagle 12/4/2012 | 8:16:26 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff Village Networks - So does anyone have any more detail on these guys? What is their status? Are they shipping? How many beta trial do they have going?

Any customer feedback on the beta trials or shipped revenue units?

Are they in hiring mode?
duedilig 12/4/2012 | 8:16:26 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff Harley uncovered - Village Networks!!
Eagle 12/4/2012 | 8:16:26 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff I have heard some really good things about:
1. Gotham
2. PhotonEx
3. Rapid5
4. Village
5. WaveSmith

All the rest I do not know much about.
John Casper 12/4/2012 | 8:16:31 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff To say that "Accordian is going out of business" is a childish statement that has no meaning.

The company is in fine shape except that they are in a slow market as everyone else in the sector- and of course affected by this. They have a very unique and exciting product. If the market was booming - they would have been a major success story. But they still can make it to finishing line and come out in much better shape than many other start ups.

networking_legend 12/4/2012 | 8:16:32 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff "Accordian is going out of business"

Is this just your opinion, or do you have inside knowledge not available to the rest of us?
grape 12/4/2012 | 8:16:33 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff Accordian is going out of business.
Eagle 12/4/2012 | 8:16:37 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff Amber, what happened? No good news to report to Telecommunications Magazine?

Maybe if you keep treating your people like sh**, that will help sell more routers. :-)

Harley 12/4/2012 | 8:16:38 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff Skeptic,

I wonder how you know so much about Village and Caspian? Obviously you don't know much.

Try reversing the position of the two companies in your statement...
LightCycle 12/4/2012 | 8:16:39 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff Continuing along those lines ...

Rapid5 - a value proposition that is 5 years old (PSTN offload with yet-another-box-in-the-middle, jeez).

RiverDelta - a TERN me-too

WaveSmith - seems to be taking the Juniper approach to ATM. I expect them to very quickly dump their current pitch and swing to something new.
skeptic 12/4/2012 | 8:16:41 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff Gotham should not be on a list.

Hyperchip is way too far from product to be
on a 2001 list.

Procket isn't on the list (which says something
about the list).


Movaz is on the list. but with no real value
proposition.

Village networks sounds a whole lot like Caspian.
(only far behind where caspian already is).

The material on accordion actually points out
a past tie to Mayan networks as if its
something to be proud of.

kupfi 12/4/2012 | 8:16:43 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff Telecom Magazine announced Hot Start-Ups 2001.

Amber is missing.

Any inside info. about these companies?

http://www.telecommagazine.com...
Eagle 12/4/2012 | 8:16:50 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff cessna,

What you saw was an initial job interview. Bad news, Juniper is not only on a hiring freeze, they are laying off big time! Amber folks, keep on looking! Good Luck.

Eagle
MeMeNet 12/4/2012 | 8:17:02 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff My friend is still working at Amber. He'll be leaving as soon as his year is up. He told me that the SQA department is a joke. They got bunch of people from Com21, top to bottom. These people know nothing about routing and that was the main reason why they didn't do well at Beta sites.

Let MeMeNet your UUNET !!!
yipe 12/4/2012 | 8:17:03 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff "The rest are all third-tier and fourth-tier players, which include the marketing group VP and AVP. "

I learnt from one ex-amber engineer who interviewed in my company last fall, told me that Amber has a poor SQA management team, average a good SQA leaves the company because of the lousy management team. Are they being let go? Anyone knows?
Eagle 12/4/2012 | 8:17:15 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff Myresearch,

It is not a position issue when acutal customers demand that Amber adds OC-3 interfaces prior to doing any lab testing! Oops, the hardware will not support OC-3. Game over.

"Pure Edge" is exactly what Amber is losing deals on. Juniper and Unisphere are getting all the wins. And the box they shipping the most is the OC-3's.


cessna 12/4/2012 | 8:17:17 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff Saw Amber folks talking to JNPR's VP for
Biz Dev at SuperComm. He didn't seemed all that interested in them...
myresearch 12/4/2012 | 8:17:20 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff > Another interesting point I found out at
> SuperComm 2001, Unisphere edge router that is
> shipped and sold the most is their box with OC-
> 3 interfaces.

It is a position issue. Redstone box (unishpere)
is also positioned as a DSL aggregation router connected to DSLAM. Most of the DSLAMs have OC3
uplinks until more recently. Amber is more pure
edge (like cisco 7500 and 10000).

sailor 12/4/2012 | 8:17:24 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff We have very solid/experienced management. We are well funded, and are still hiring. Potential customers are very excited about our product. From the very start we have aimed at being around for the long term. You should seriously consider an offer from us.
Eagle 12/4/2012 | 8:17:27 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff Puzzaw,

What happened? I responded to your message with 5 points and you did not respond.

Are you more interested in all the "dumped girlfriend" talk? How about sticking to the facts that I laid out in my response to your emotional comments.

I am interested to know why you think Amber has a prayer of making any money when they cannot even sell one ASR 2010 or 2020.

Another interesting point I found out at SuperComm 2001, Unisphere edge router that is shipped and sold the most is their box with OC-3 interfaces. Why did Amber not build this interface? Why did Amber not get customer demand and build the box to customers specs? Sound like Sales & Marketing really dropped the ball and dissapointed not only themselves, but also the families of over 260+ employees!!!

Shame on them!!! You really hurt a lot of peoples lives!!! Not to mention waste a lot of money.
Vocal9! 12/4/2012 | 8:17:28 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff Hello KB.

Interested in a job? I have a good start-up.

if you wish to discuss confidentailly please e-mail me at [email protected]

To discuss.

Regards
Andrew
kbmedia1 12/4/2012 | 8:17:31 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff "Are they building cable modem or router? No wonder they still can not sell a box."

I totally agree. I had interviewed with the company last October and was offered the job. I declined because no one over there could give me a stright answer as to where they were positioning themselves. Also, I could not work for a company that doesn't have a clue about routing or IP. It's tough to have a so called aggregation router with limited interfaces and not know how the darn thing works!!
uknow 12/4/2012 | 8:17:33 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff Are they building cable modem or router? No wonder they still can not sell a box.
ext88 12/4/2012 | 8:17:33 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff Hi Sailor,

It's obvious that you work for Force10. What do you think Force10's prospects are long term vs several of their competitors? They appear to have some interesting technology and some good folks from Cisco in key management positions. I have the opportunity to join Force10 or 2 other startups.

Thanks
frozentundra 12/4/2012 | 8:17:34 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff wait a minute! amber is a great company. they have lots of people from com21. they don't know much about routing, but they do know cable modem.
theforce 12/4/2012 | 8:17:34 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff wow
drone387 12/4/2012 | 8:17:35 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff >I had heard that Tiarra were doing a fair
>amount of business with Qwest. True/False?

I just recently heard that Qwest was a customer but don't know how much they ordered. If they're happy with the product, I assume we'll be getting a press release shortly. Tiara needs more Qwests to get a decent backlog.
lighthearted1 12/4/2012 | 8:17:37 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff I had heard that Tiarra were doing a fair amount
of business with Qwest. True/False?
drone387 12/4/2012 | 8:17:40 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff >How about Tiara Networks? [ML-PPP & ML-FR]

Two of their biggest customers, BBO & PSIX, have declared bankruptcy. The remaining name customer is C&W but they split that account with Quick Eagle(Digital Link). Several pre-IPO BLEC customers, eLinks & Everest Broadband, but I wouldn't count on them being around next year. The founder CEO, Dan Palmer, has been moved aside by the main VC, Mayfield. Dan joins the other ex-Digital Link founders moved to the sideline by Mayfield from their original starring roles. QE/DL has filed some lawsuit against Tiara for taking trade secrets. The fourth round $22M they raised earlier should keep them going for another year. [Red Herring estimated their burn rate at $2.0M - $2.5M.] With their burn rate and box current average selling price of $15K, Tiara needs to reach a volume of 1600 boxes per year to survive. I would say that they are having trouble reaching break even based on the installation of the new CEO. Their main threat comes from PMCS who inserted multi-link technology into one of their chips. If the PMCS multilink stuff works, any competitor line interface card with the chip makes it a ML box. QE/DL, ASCX, CMTN, JNPR, & CSCO all offer ML capability of one sort or another. Paul Smith, the new CEO, probably has a year to get new higher value/margin products out the door, land enough medium/large stable accounts, and put the company in IPO shape. In other words, they're in the same boat as a lot of other network startups right now. The company will be four years old this year so the patience of their VCs is probably running out.
94086l 12/4/2012 | 8:17:41 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff UMMMMMMM Slight correction, that information was given initially to sucker very smart investors like you(Lots of Amber stock) to feel good about yourself. keep on counting....:-(((
puzzaw 12/4/2012 | 8:17:41 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff >Now you sound like a girlfriend whining when she >gets dumped.

err...correct me if I'm wrong...but...ummm..aren't
you the one who got laid off (or "dumped" as you put it) :-)

>The company is really doomed though i wish >otherwise cause I used to work there and still >sitting on worthless options.
94086l 12/4/2012 | 8:17:44 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff Now you sound like a girlfriend whining when she gets dumped.
sailor 12/4/2012 | 8:17:45 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff I've interviewed several ex-Amber engineers at Force10 and have not found a good one yet.
puzzaw 12/4/2012 | 8:17:46 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff 94086l,
cisco took 5 years to figure out that ENA was
going nowhere, and now they got rid of the
erstwhile prestigious ENA team...amber took a fraction of that time to realise that you and the likes needed to go. I would call that smart thinking.
time will tell whether or not amber survives the shakedown...you certainly seem to be going nowhere, fast.
but then, one understands your reaction...I believe it is also called "sour grapes" :-)
CJC 12/4/2012 | 8:17:49 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff How about Tiara Networks?

They make a series of edge routers, and though primarily focused on MLPPP and MLFR to enable lower cost multi-megabit bonded T1 connections, their technology is coming along nicely to easily get into the edge router space.

They have $55+ million in funding, only 150 employees (most from Digital Link), and have actual customers and sales.

Anyone have any comments on these guys?
94086l 12/4/2012 | 8:17:52 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff Amber is a place with lots of VPs,AVps,Directors and Managers all together 60 out of 200 even after layoffs. Somebody please do a math if company run like that can ever deliver a real product which customers want.

Puzzaw looks like an amber insider with lots of worthless stock option out on his own limb.He can't tell diff between reality and limbo.

or May be Amber has hired him to do PR on LR paying him again with those useless stock options!!! Ouuch, LR seems to be lot of fun:-))
Eagle 12/4/2012 | 8:17:54 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff "well...looks like some of the guys who were let go are still in limbo
hey!! maybe that explains why they were let go in the first place...:-)"

A few comments on above statement:

1. Why were they hired in the first place?

2. Amber was up to 265+ employees...with no customers and no revenue...not even off one box...too much money going out the door with none coming back in...that is why they were let go.

3. CEO gets rid of people because of his mistakes. Why would you let people go when your box does not have the features and interfaces that is needed by customers who are lab trialing the box? He should of brought on more people to help finish the ASR 2020.

4. Amber dropped the ball by not getting customers to dictate what all the box would have on it!!! This should of been done a year ago. A bunch of egotistical guys thought they knew it all...they found out the hard way that they do not.

5. The only thing that is in limbo and always will be are the stock options at Amber.

Puzzaw, hope you don't have any of these worthless stock options...:-)
Lots'O'Cabbage 12/4/2012 | 8:17:54 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff Wow!
kupfi 12/4/2012 | 8:17:54 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff "Gotham? Interesting...layoffs and other unsavory acts are in the offing there...that's the word anyway."

No idea. Their press release today is telling another story:

http://digitalmass.boston.com/...
entropizer 12/4/2012 | 8:18:04 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff > every engineer at amber networks should try and
> get into force 10 networks. yes, i said "try"
> because they are very selective and for good
> reason. the company is still in stealth mode
> but will be a big story in the next year.

Yeah, just like Amber is a big story right now.
theforce 12/4/2012 | 8:18:07 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff Amber is all talk and has nothing to show for. No carrier is dumb enough to buy Amber's gears. No performance, no scalibility and that joke about redundancy. The money is drying up and there will be no 4th round :-(.
tiadakola 12/4/2012 | 8:18:25 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff They are history...to be announced in the next 3-4 weeks...
tiadakola 12/4/2012 | 8:18:25 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff Gotham? Interesting...layoffs and other unsavory acts are in the offing there...that's the word anyway.
noitall 12/4/2012 | 8:18:28 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff every engineer at amber networks should try and get into force 10 networks. yes, i said "try" because they are very selective and for good reason. the company is still in stealth mode but will be a big story in the next year.
puzzaw 12/4/2012 | 8:18:29 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff well...looks like some of the guys who were let go are still in limbo
hey!! maybe that explains why they were let go in the first place...:-)
94086l 12/4/2012 | 8:18:30 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff The company is really doomed though i wish otherwise cause I used to work there and still sitting on worthless options. May be someday they will be bought for at least $3 a share so i can buy environmentally freindly hybrid car.
Amber won't be bought because CTO/CEO and Founder from EDA world are too egoistic and stupid cause they didn't sell the company last year when they got offers. Now they will sell the company 1/100 of the price after reading this posted message.

somebody said CTO is a good guy. Here is the data point. This CTO guy hired his previous Boss from Digital reporting to him directly to satisfy the EGO despite his previous boss(10 years ago) not being a right fit for the job.
Enough for now:-- I still wish Amber goodluck so that i can reduce bay area pollution.... GO AMBER.
94086l 12/4/2012 | 8:18:30 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff opticsguy is right on.
opticguy 12/4/2012 | 8:18:36 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff After announced the product at Jun 2000, and GA at Q4 of 2000, up to now, there is NO sales announcement from Amber. Not even 1 cent. Zil. Look at other startups, if they have something ..... decent offered, small contracts would be signed (Zaffire, Quantum Bridge, Alidian, Mayan, Astra Point, .etc....).

So, what did go wrong ?????

My guests are:

1) They offer something that are already available from the other big three (cisco,juniper,and unisphere), not counting the second-tier players such as Marconi, Ericsson, Alcatel,.....

2) Will Amber be around in .... 12 months to support the customers (this is the question on all potential customer mind ?)

3) Does the product solidly build ? (after lab trials, sales will be announced if the test show SOLID results)

4) Out of the big boys, only NT, NOK, LU needs OEM routing edge solutions. If the box does what it's supposed to do, I would expect OEM deals have already been announed........months ago from at least one company. Look at JNPR, once they showed everyone that the M40 was solid (back in 1998), sales and OEM deals was announed immediately.
....

5) any guests !!!!!!
Lots'O'Cabbage 12/4/2012 | 8:18:43 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff Can someone tell me where Ennovate Networks fits into this IP Services technology? I thought these guys were competitors to Amber?

You do not here much about Ennovate anymore.

Any speculations?

kupfi 12/4/2012 | 8:18:46 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff They might be bought because they are so highly rated by the (so called) analysts. According the the anal-ysts, the only three companies who have a chance in the edge-router space are: Amber, Gotham and Laurel.
Eagle 12/4/2012 | 8:18:46 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff Not a chance. What are they buying? Amber has not been able to sell one box. Why would someone buy something that no Carrier or CLEC want.

whineceller 12/4/2012 | 8:18:50 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff only time will tell, my guess is that they will
be bought and soon.
Eagle 12/4/2012 | 8:18:54 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff Opticguy,

Good point. The CTO- I as well have a lot of respect for him and think he is top of the line guy. Too bad Amber does not have more with his sense of dedication, ambition, and inspiration.

Good guy, bad company, bad CEO, bad VP's of sales. What exactly did the CEO & VP's of Sales do while at Amber waiting for product. Most CEO's & VP's of Sales structure long term agreements with Carriers. Large Multi Million $$$ deals. These agreements are contingent on testing out features and services prior to shipping. If product works, they must buy quantity in contract. Once company builds what carrier asked for, boom, both sides get what they want, working product and revenue. Sad part of this, Amber CEO & VP Sales did none of this.

And they wonder why things are not going well there. Hey, maybe if we fire more people, things will get better!?! NOT!

opticguy 12/4/2012 | 8:18:59 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff I agree. It's just a matter of months !!!

Actually, there is one respected name of Amber's executives, the CTO. The rest are all third-tier and fourth-tier players, which include the marketing group VP and AVP.

My 2 cents.
Eagle 12/4/2012 | 8:19:10 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff Not only are they missing features & interfaces...they are missing a qualified CEO.

This guy has no skin in the game. If Amber goes belly up, he is still a multi millionaire. All the employees, if Amber goes belly up, they are belling up to the laptop to brush up their resume.

Not a good guy to walk the plank with. On top of that, he does not keep his word, he has no loyalty, and that mixed with his inexperience is absolutley fatal. Or maybe "doomed" is a better word. This obvioulsy will be his last run at CEO.

Hope he enjoys the ride while it lasts.

kupfi 12/4/2012 | 8:19:14 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff "Their box has nothing that customers want...Like features & interfaces"

You got it right. This is the biggest drawback of Amber.
Eagle 12/4/2012 | 8:19:14 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff Crystalball,

I don't think the sky is falling on the entire DotCom industry. I think the sky is falling at Amber. Every rep they got is looking around at other opportunities. Not one potential customer is impressed enough to deploy a box in a live network. Most of customers are shipping back their lab unit.

Look at Unisphere, their box is working and in installed in live networks. They are coming out with impressive new cards with better density and feature set. They are going to take some serious market share from Cisco & Juniper.

Bottom line, the DotCom's that are building something the customers needs and wants will make a profit, the companies (Amber) that are building a cool science project are going to collect their First Place ribbons (at SuperComm 2000) and close the doors within 18 months, maybe sooner, if they are lucky.

Good thing, their are plenty of other sucessful, profit minded companies out their to hook up with!

Any Comments?
crystalball 12/4/2012 | 8:19:16 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff Ouch, sorry to hear it. Unfortunately, reading these posting remind me of all the posts that came from Zaffire back when it cut and announced layoffs. It's like a carbon copy "you sound like x-employee with ax to gride, etc."
Much afraid that if this can happen to companies like Amber and Zaffire, the rest of this (DotCom like) industry is not far behind.
Eagle 12/4/2012 | 8:19:39 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff I agree, Amber has no customers to date. They went GA in December and they have $0 recongnized revenue. Their box has nothing that customers want...Like features & interfaces.

Their Mgmt staff is very weak. Their solution to no sales is firing proven sales talent instead of listening to want customers are demanding. Like more robust features and additional interfaces.

CEO tries to do everything instead of hiring qualified people and let them do their job. Then maybe CEO could clean the house and direct company to build product that will sell and customers acutally could use in live networks.

Amber Networks is absolutley doomed...

hughman 12/4/2012 | 8:27:24 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff Are you saying that the 'axed' aren't worth hiring? Was the technology based on such flawed thinking that they're now technologically poisoned?
newgal 12/4/2012 | 8:29:06 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff Xcited01 - You sound like one of the folks who was let go...

"Amber is not making forward progress with new customers." - do you have a credible source that can confirm this?

"On top of that, their team is just as weak as their product, and their relationships with customers are few." - can you elaborate on this?



Xcited01 12/4/2012 | 8:29:12 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff Amber is not making forward progress with new customers. And, like all others, will burn through their remaining cash and go out of business.

On top of that, their team is just as weak as their product, and their relationships with customers are few.

Mark my words - Xcited01 -
drone387 12/4/2012 | 8:29:15 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff >It's been a year since they announced the ASR

But it has been only 6 months since it went into beta trials at customers. Amber raised $90M last July back before the bubble collapsed. The CEO said it would take the company forward for the next 18 months. Amber undoubtably has a large internal valuation greater than what the market is currently supporting. By cutting the burn rate now, they hope to IPO next and avoid a big down round of funding. If we don't see enough major announcements over the next six months, then their strategy is in trouble.
stuartb 12/4/2012 | 8:29:19 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff "Amber was considered the most promising on the edge by the analysts."

There's a big difference between a good story and a good product. It's been a year since they announced the ASR, someone hasn't lived up to the hype...
kupfi 12/4/2012 | 8:29:19 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff I aggree. Layoffs should be the last resort.

However, they are most probably still far off from having enough revenue and customers to survive for long without layoffs.

Amber was considered the most promising on the edge by the analysts. If they are having problems then what about the dozens of other companies on the edge.

Most will probably go over the edge ;)
allidia 12/4/2012 | 8:29:26 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff They are seeing a slowdown that is expected to last another 6 months or more. They built their staff to support a certain revenue rate and that is not happening due to the slowdown. If they dont reduce their burn rate through layoffs then they are forced to raise more money in a down market. What VC is in business to pay people to sit around for six months and twiddle their thumbs? Cut the fat and rehire when times change.
Amber is one of dozens who will come out over the next few months announcing the same. The ones who do it now are better off than those who wait and put themselves in a desperate financial situation.
kcufde 12/4/2012 | 8:29:29 PM
re: Amber Networks Cuts Staff pre-ipo's any way funded by the VC's. The lay off is not going to make any difference, instead they could have slightly decreased the salary taken by upper level management and some of the food expenses, which would have equalized their budget
HOME
Sign In
SEARCH
CLOSE
MORE
CLOSE