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Cable/Video

More Startup Setbacks in Texas

Plano, Texas-based access equipment maker Xalted Networks Inc. has filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. The company was founded in January 2000 and, at one point, had about 130 employees.

Xalted has only announced one funding round, a $21 million Series A round, which included investments from BlueStream Ventures, Granite Ventures, Charter Venture Capital and Alliance Ventures. In February 2002, the Dallas Business Journal reported that Xalted had closed another $10 million round, and a company director said in March that Xalted was looking for another $15 million elsewhere to complete the round (see Xalted Axes Staff). In light of its bankruptcy, it's not clear whether Xalted ever closed its second funding round.

Xalted executives still won't say how much funding the company has closed to date.

The company announced in June that it had "expanded its U.S. operations to worldwide." Translation: It moved its software development to Bangalore, India, where technical labor is less expensive. At that time, it also announced plans to hire 70 more engineers in India.

In its bankruptcy filing, Xalted lists its estimated assets at between $500,001 and $1 million. Included in its list of creditors was a $4,000 payment for Xalted's Supercomm tradeshow booth.

"This is a positive note for our company," says Keith Bradshaw, Xalted's director of marketing. "We're still very much alive, and our investors are 100 percent behind us."

Bradshaw says Xalted now employs around 40 people in the U.S. and India and aims to have 80 or more on staff in the next six to 12 months.

Elsewhere in North Texas, White Rock Networks confirmed it has shed 25 percent of its staff, bringing the number of employees there to about 115, according to Andrew Knott, White Rock's VP of marketing and customer service.

Knott says White Rock is still a fully functional company and expects its OC192 Sonet add/drop multiplexer (ADM) to enter field trials within a couple of weeks (see White Rock Gets Coarse). ADMs allow lower-level signals to be dropped from a high-speed optical connection in a synchronous transmission network.

A source close to White Rock says the company has hired Pat Rockford, who previously did stints at Xalted and Photuris Inc., as its new VP of sales. Knott declined to comment on the rumor.

— Phil Harvey, Senior Editor, Light Reading
http://www.lightreading.com
cyber_techy 12/4/2012 | 10:03:58 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas ..the cuts were applied to the firms installation & servicing staff. I heard otherwise; i.e. >80% of the layoffs occured within R&D. What are they trying to hide?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Maybe these are the signs of time. Using R&D people to do installation. Should look good on the resume though.
optopuss 12/4/2012 | 10:03:58 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Sorry you were impacted miss_jessicaw. I know how you feel;(I went through a very similar experience a few months ago). Ceyba's president was quoted as saying that the cuts were applied to the firms installation & servicing staff. I heard otherwise; i.e. >80% of the layoffs occured within R&D. What are they trying to hide?

Optopuss
theanswer 12/4/2012 | 10:04:01 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Does anyone living in the Richardson, Plano, Allen area want to get together and brainstorm ideas for a simple product that could make us a salary while the economy recovers? I have some ideas and with your ideas maybe we could come up with something easy to do and manufactuer. We don't need massive systems but rather ideas that are manageable, via work at home or a co-located place. Together we can develop a test product or solution for a vendor's needs today.
I have contacts with a professional mechanical engineer who owns his company and is looking to develop products.
They don't have to be telecom. Let's find a way to be self employed. Software & hardware.
972-754-6541
doc21 12/4/2012 | 10:04:02 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Anyone know anything about Luxn, they are still hanging around but there is no news about what they are doing, leads me to think that they must be sinking.
likesInFighting 12/4/2012 | 10:04:03 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Is Xalted is having problems leasing new office space, they can lease my garage, and two two room tents.

The terms are the $$$ must be paid in advance, and all utilities are paid in the tents.
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:04:18 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas pilos1 wrote:

Layoffs at any startup are very painful given the dedication over the past months/years of most in such ventures. We are however in a new environment; the pendulum has swung towards the other direction i.e. complete pessimism. I fear that things will continue to get worse before they get better. Bottom line is that most of us in the start-up world will not succeed, and that is the way is should be. A successful start-up should be the exception not the rule.
--------------------------------------------------
It would be a shame if everyone took that same attitude, there would be no new technology developed. If the attitudes ever get to that point, this country is doomed as far as being a technology leader.
The best way to prevent so many failures is to purge the incompetentcy within the upper and midd management of the startup companies, which is what we are experiencing as we speak. I feel that when the dust settles from the bubble bursting, we will see some very focused and efficient startups come along. This, however, will take some healing time for the VC's that have been burned so badly in the past.
There is still plenty of money out there for startup ventures, but the people who control it are going to be more careful about throwing money at just any group that can sit down and come up with a business plan. They are going to want to see successful credentials from the principles.
pilos1 12/4/2012 | 10:04:19 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Layoffs at any startup are very painful given the dedication over the past months/years of most in such ventures. We are however in a new environment; the pendulum has swung towards the other direction i.e. complete pessimism. I fear that things will continue to get worse before they get better. Bottom line is that most of us in the start-up world will not succeed, and that is the way is should be. A successful start-up should be the exception not the rule.
mordecai 12/4/2012 | 10:04:22 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Miss_jessicaw-

Sorry to hear of your misfortune, and best of luck on the rebound. Care to comment further? Do you think it will stop at 20% or is the feeling that there will be deeper slashes?

Ottawa seems poised to become the 'photonics back-alley' versus 'photonics valley'. Nothin back here but us techno-hobos mulling around looking for free booze.

Rightfielder 12/4/2012 | 10:04:25 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Speaking of startup setbacks in Texas, can anyone confirm that Chorum Technologies in Richardson had another significant RIF last week?
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:04:25 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas I would have to guess Juniper. When they IPO'd
they opened at $94.00/share, and soon ran up to upper $300.00/share range, then 3 way split, then ran to upper$200.00 dollar range and 2 way split, then ran back up to ~$240.00/share. If the stock option structure there was anything like most startups, you walked in the door with between 25,000 - 45,000 shares at some where between $0.08 and $0.12 per share.
Do the math on that one.
Personally my bail out range is somewhere over $3.0M, I don't balme you at all, I would be doing the same thing. Selfish, I think not. The amount of time and effort away from the family to make the startup successful is tremendous, and there are many sacrifices that have to be made.
Well done, you deserve it. After being through 3 failed startups, due to piss poor management, The only way I would be willing to do it a fourth time is if I have more control, and input.
I already have enough toilet paper.
exObserver 12/4/2012 | 10:04:25 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas They do not buy their stock options early. They wait until the day they sell them.

Taxes are a rich man's problem.

venky 12/4/2012 | 10:04:28 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas It is a sad day if employees feel that the management has not been loyal to them after all the hard work and spending weekends at work. IG侵m surprised that you guys actually had a performance evaluation and compensation in this market. That sounds better than most public companies in this area.
Hopefully the market will change for the better, though it does not look likely anytime soon. Most startups are destined to fail and success is only going to come slowly to the very few left standing.
It is good to have a medium to express oneG侵s views but most people here either seem to have a grudge or are promoting companies of their choice. The only people getting suckered into threads like this are the noble community of head hunters who seem to start calling people in companies that they smell trouble based on what they read here. Gee G囚 what a profession!
From what I can tell, people working in dying startups find themselves mostly surrounded by sycophants and yes-men. If people in your startup are still focused on their deliverables and you have money for another year, just hang in there for now. The world ainG侵t any better right now.

- vv
venky 12/4/2012 | 10:04:28 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas It is a sad day if employees feel that the management has not been loyal to them after all the hard work and spending weekends at work. IG侵m surprised that you guys actually had a performance evaluation and compensation in this market. That sounds better than most public companies in this area.
Hopefully the market will change for the better, though it does not look likely anytime soon. Most startups are destined to fail and success is only going to come slowly to the very few left standing.
It is good to have a medium to express oneG侵s views but most people here either seem to have a grudge or are promoting companies of their choice. The only people getting suckered into threads like this are the noble community of head hunters who seem to start calling people in companies that they smell trouble based on what they read here. Gee G囚 what a profession!
From what I can tell, people working in dying startups find themselves mostly surrounded by sycophants and yes-men. If people in your startup are still focused on their deliverables and you have money for another year, just hang in there for now. The world ainG侵t any better right now.

- vv
buddha_bone 12/4/2012 | 10:04:29 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas From what I remember, I-IPO-ed said in another
thread he had worked for Extreme, but it could
have been Foundry. -bb

--------------------------------
jamesbond said:

There were only really three successful IPOs in the switch/router world. one of those

--------------------------------

Avici
Foundry
Juniper
Iipoed 12/4/2012 | 10:04:30 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Avici is history or soon will be. Replace with Extreme
thats_it 12/4/2012 | 10:04:31 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas
whosrdaddy,

Unfortunately, there is no question about what you had to say. Force10's work environment really sucks. I will further say and confirm that there was a layoff last week, with likely more to follow in my opinion. There is just no way I can sit and not say something. I'm THAT fed up with the way employees are treated.

I heard about that meeting with PK a few months ago, the infamous "we will shoot you" meeting. I am one of those employees that the company considers an "A" grade employee, a "top" performer, one of those 20% who did get a compensation increase a few months ago. And yes, I am one of those numerous Force10 engineers that would leave if I could. I am looking, that is for sure.
miss_jessicaw 12/4/2012 | 10:04:31 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Worked countless number of overtime hours
on evenings and weekends over the past 15
months and now I've been laid off from Ceyba
(part of 20% reduction). That's what you
get for working at a start-up with no ethics.
Iipoed 12/4/2012 | 10:04:33 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas OPtical Man8 days total in the hospital, two separate times, three surgeries,I'm over 50 years old.

Oh yeah, I was a sales guy. And bottom line the only reason I was working was for the money

Now I have been buying and renovating low income housing and volunteering at the hospital with my dog.

You are one that sounds full of himself.
jamesbond 12/4/2012 | 10:04:33 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas There were only really three successful IPOs in the switch/router world. one of those

--------------------------------

Avici
Foundry
Juniper

vindicator2000 12/4/2012 | 10:04:34 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas The problem with Nepotism at Metro_Optix was that it got into the awarding of contracts to family members for "so-called" services rendered. I remember the situation quite well, as I and LightOfDay were there at the same time.

I can shed no light on any of the issues concerning interns who are relatives at Metro-Optix, except to comment that this is normal behavior for every company I have ever worked for.

glex 12/4/2012 | 10:04:35 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Let's face it, Nepotism is at every company, large and small. It's appearance is easily detected at a smaller company like Metro-Optix. Hell, I took advantage of it while I was a college student home for the summer working at ATT. I don't have a problem with it, obviously, so long as the person is competent.

Dave Orr's son is being paid from his father's salary. I don't believe that should cause anyone grief. The reason people are making an issue of it is that Dave Orr's son was only there for a few weeks before the lay off. Not sure what the deal is with Dave Hamblin's son. He is able to perform his job, as he fixed my computer problem once.

As for the Indian brothers, refer to the competency remark I made earlier. There is none to be found between them.

Back to job hunting.

Glex
gardner 12/4/2012 | 10:04:35 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas
The guy who stole at 7-11 could not contribute for election fund, the guy who stole everything and everybody's life earnings contributed to election fund...


That only works if we the electorate let it work. Who who spends the most on his campaign does not always win. Look at Steve Forbes. Sorry 3rd or 4th. He was a waste of oxygen and everyone knew it no matter how much he spent.
inlight 12/4/2012 | 10:04:36 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas gardner:
Short answer: when they see some of their colleagues do some hard time in the slammer. Why is it that we have no trouble putting somebody who knocks over a 7-11 in the slammer for 10-25 years but we wink at some guy who steals enough to buy several thousand 7-11s and in the process puts thousands out of work and steals the life savings of several thousand more. Consider the relative harm to society. If a guy knocks over a liquor store he at most affects the livelihood of a handful of people. If he knocks over Worldcom he ruins the lives of tens of thousands of people. Let's get a clue and punish these felons in suits the way they deserve instead of slapping them on the wrist

Answer:
The guy who stole at 7-11 could not contribute for election fund, the guy who stole everything and everybody's life earnings contributed to election fund...

IL
papabear 12/4/2012 | 10:04:36 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas They should also confiscate their ill gotten gains and use the funds to help those that were harmed.
gardner 12/4/2012 | 10:04:36 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas
I guess the motto at Metro Optics is "I am my brothers keeper"

Shades of "New Jack City". ;-)
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:04:36 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Oh, that's right. And that was not the only incident.
optical_man 12/4/2012 | 10:04:37 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Author: Iipoed Number: 300
Subject: Re: why work for startups Date: 7/17/2002 3:01:39 PM
There were only really three successful IPOs in the switch/router world. one of those

Retired? You sure you don't mean 'taking an extended sabbatical? I don't mean to burst your opinion of yourself but as an example, I've got some serious bank accounts via stock and family, but I would never retire. Don't think that any driven ambitious person would.
Is J. Chambers retired? Mory E. retired? Dave House retired? Never will retire, there's too much fun to be had setting personal goals for oneself. I spent some time on a few beaches, sailed down one continents coast. Fun, then yawn.
Hopefully you aren't indicitive of the new crop of get rich quick artists who take the money then never return the favor by putting in his part for the economy by sweating out some new assignment.

gardner 12/4/2012 | 10:04:37 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas
In this post Enron, Worldcom, Adelphia, ... environment, when will the corporate leaders step
up to the plate and do the right thing?


Short answer: when they see some of their colleagues do some hard time in the slammer. Why is it that we have no trouble putting somebody who knocks over a 7-11 in the slammer for 10-25 years but we wink at some guy who steals enough to buy several thousand 7-11s and in the process puts thousands out of work and steals the life savings of several thousand more. Consider the relative harm to society. If a guy knocks over a liquor store he at most affects the livelihood of a handful of people. If he knocks over Worldcom he ruins the lives of tens of thousands of people. Let's get a clue and punish these felons in suits the way they deserve instead of slapping them on the wrist.
Iipoed 12/4/2012 | 10:04:38 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas There were only really three successful IPOs in the switch/router world. one of those
red1969 12/4/2012 | 10:04:39 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Which company?
________________________________
Bottom line it starts at the top. If the senior management does not have a financial stake (their own $$$s) then it will always be just a job to pull in a salary with no total committment to the success.

Fortunately we went public and I am retired on the beach in Manhattan Beach.
Iipoed 12/4/2012 | 10:04:40 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Having worked for close to 4 years for a successful startup I found the keys to success to be:
CEO was the primary VC

Senior management team had been together for quite a number of years, had done a previous successful startup. They all could have retired but believed there was still alot they could contribute.

The CEO was usually the last to leave at night, and always there on saturdays and most sundays.
The company was controlled by the employees not the VCs through their stock ownership.

A CEO that signed off on all purchase orders and equipment evals. He always knew what was going on.

Bottom line it starts at the top. If the senior management does not have a financial stake (their own $$$s) then it will always be just a job to pull in a salary with no total committment to the success.

Fortunately we went public and I am retired on the beach in Manhattan Beach.
TheChief 12/4/2012 | 10:04:40 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas itinerantengineer wrote:

They seemed to think that meetings and or slide shows to talk about working were far more important than really trying to get things done. Is this a common thing? (it had been about 15 years since my last startup)

--------------------------------------------------

I had the same experience. Years ago I went with a start up and we worked in the back of a small retail store that was owned by one of the engineers mother-in-law. We had borrowed equipment, supplied our own computers, and put all our effort in getting the prototype to demo.

My Xalted experience was very different. Money was wasted on little things like free Friday lunch, free soda and candy, and free fancy coffee with some really neat coffee makers. But huge amounts of money were wasted on providing the presentations to the President and board. Two 'Program Managers' worked full time on the presentations and scheduling. Since they were always meeting with someone, almost three people worked full time at nothing but putting a good show on for the board.

I have never been at a company that had as many meetings. One Director told me at lunch one Friday that the day before he had a 12 hour day with 12 meetings.

WhiteKnight, on Nepotism, you forgot about the software reqirements data base.
tgdn 12/4/2012 | 10:04:40 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas "The basic anti-monopoly laws for this country, Glass-Seagul, was created in the 1920's for a reason - greed and corruption existed then as it does now. My point is this - vigilance for democratic rights must be fought for every day, as some one will ALWAYS be looking to take it away from you "
------------------------------------------------

I completely agree on this point, no matter how great nation we might have built, every system relies on correct participation of all the people who are all part of it. If we are not vigilant and insist on ethical values, not some or few, but many will exploit us for their selfish benefits.
tgdn 12/4/2012 | 10:04:40 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas "The basic anti-monopoly laws for this country, Glass-Seagul, was created in the 1920's for a reason - greed and corruption existed then as it does now. My point is this - vigilance for democratic rights must be fought for every day, as some one will ALWAYS be looking to take it away from you "
------------------------------------------------

I completely agree on this point, no matter how great nation we might have built, every system relies on correct participation of all the people who are all part of it. If we are not vigilant and insist on ethical values, not some or few, but many will exploit us for their selfish benefits.
itinerantengineer 12/4/2012 | 10:04:41 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas The last one aI worked for, I went to because i thought they had cutting edge tech. I wanted to try something new. (i'm a 25 yr chip and wire hyb/semi guy) MEM's based optical swithches sounded really cool. Any way after over a year of the long hours etc. it too tanked. No real deliverable product. A really cool science experiment though. What I really did not like was the Corporate offices in Miami, The fact the CEO/pres. wouldn't move to the manufacturing plant nor did the V.P. or the CTO or basiclly any of the other senior mgmt. There was a lot of money wasted over the time I was there. They seemed to think that meetings and or slide shows to talk about working were far more important than really trying to get things done. Is this a common thing? (it had been about 15 years since my last startup)
pooh-bear 12/4/2012 | 10:04:41 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Maybe light reading should do a story on nepotism at Metro Optics.

--------------------------------------------

Frankly, I'm tired of all the articles, interviews, and postings based on innuendo, vignettes and supposition.

We all know this industry is imploding, with many careers being permanently sidetracked or derailed.

Steve Saunders posted recently asking if we were seeing the seeds of a turnaround in the industry. I don't know the answer, but through in-depth reporting and research we might be able to find an answer.

What would be interesting, useful actually, is to have an in-depth report about the actual number of optical/networking companies birthed in the last 5 years, and their current status (out of business, merged, hanging on, third round, gone public etc.)

The statistics of this industry will point to the current trends in this industry. Light Reading should take some leadership here in providing such data and analysis, as opposed to some of the silly and shameless reporting that goes on sometimes.
likesInFighting 12/4/2012 | 10:04:41 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Maybe light reading should do a story on nepotism at Metro Optics.

Nepotism is fine for a family business, but when investors put their money into something they want and deserve the best people.

If relatives are at the same start-up it should be because they founded it together.

I guess the motto at Metro Optics is

"I am my brothers keeper"


the guy who sat beside the bos 12/4/2012 | 10:04:41 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas jamesbond wrote: "Although I am not sure
how long can you keep working hard without
getting to a "fuck it" point."

1 year; 1 month; 15 days; and 4 hours, or less!

;)
runrabbitrun 12/4/2012 | 10:04:42 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas There is an adage that goes - 80% of the work is done by 20% of the people. I've worked at RCA, Bell Labs (not Lucent!!), SBC, and then down the start-up road. The agage has held no matter where I've worked - large or small company.

Nepotism, and favoratism is/was rampant in all of those companies that I've worked for, and has been since at least when I started in 1977. The basic anti-monopoly laws for this country, Glass-Seagul, was created in the 1920's for a reason - greed and corruption existed then as it does now. My point is this - vigilance for democratic rights must be fought for every day, as some one will ALWAYS be looking to take it away from you (source: a little steal from Winston Churchill circa 1940). But, know that the despot has never won over the long run (source: Gandi).

Small business is the backbone of the US economy. I think it accounts for 80% of the employment. I can't help but note that when Cisco looks for new technology it isn't from their internal labs, but through acquisition of a start-up. Too bad I know a number of Cisco employees that blow the doors off most engineers out there. Perhaps they should do some internal soul searching as to why that is.
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:04:42 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Which is what I understand will happen.
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:04:43 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas vindicator2000 wrote:
Well .... I stand corrected (or is it corrupted)?

--------------------------------------------------
Or maybe both!
vindicator2000 12/4/2012 | 10:04:43 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas LightOfDay wrote:

No, my principles don't allow me to eat Sour Grapes, or be part of that kind of action.
From my experience, people that like that kind of action, like to drink their Sour Grapes, because they sure wine when they get caught. :)

--------------------------------
Well .... I stand corrected (or is it corrupted)?
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:04:43 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas should have been:I am sure there was no nepotism at Xalted, their principles would not allow that.
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:04:44 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas On the otherhand, I am sure there was nepotism at Xalted. Their principles would not allow that.
vindicator2000 12/4/2012 | 10:04:44 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Hey LightOfDay!

I think you're upset because they didn't cut you in on any of the action.

Sour Grapes huh?
LightOfDay 12/4/2012 | 10:04:44 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas vindicator2000 wrote :

Hey LightOfDay!

I think you're upset because they didn't cut you in on any of the action.

Sour Grapes huh?
-----------------------------------------

No, my principles don't allow me to eat Sour Grapes, or be part of that kind of action.
From my experience, people that like that kind of action, like to drink their Sour Grapes, because they sure wine <sic> when they get caught. :)

</sic>
LightOfDay 12/4/2012 | 10:04:45 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas This, and the overall corruption level, is the very reason I left Metro Optix.

I started on the Metro Optix project when it was still Ericsson. There was all kinds of corrupt dealings going on. The head of the IT department at the time, was buying computer equipment from his own personal company, at huge markups. I mean $250 for a PC lan card? Get real. When a hard working secretary happen to get her hands on billing and e-mail evidence, the VP of engineering at the time was going to fire her for putting her nose where it wasn't wanted. I then learned that this same VP's wife, had started a business indocrinating contract worker's from India, into life in Dallas, ie. getting them apartments, and such. I'll give you one guess who
was hiring Indian contract workers, that were being indocrinated by this VP's wife. You guessed it, this VP and his managers. The day that I went to CEO at the time, Arun Bellary, to complain about the nepotism in this arrangement, guess who was sitting in the chair next to him, as our new CFO? His brother, Uday.

I actually never worked for Metro Optix proper. The day I quit , so that I could live with myself, was the day they officially became Metro Optix, instead of Ericsson. I suppose this was the first time I really began to notice corporate corruption. Little did I know, that this kind of behavior was so wide spread, and would eventually trash the stock market, amd my retirement savings.
I probably should have fought harder, instead of leaving. It might take that from all of us, to help turn things around.

LightOfDay
likesInFighting 12/4/2012 | 10:04:45 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas
Sounds like the March layoff was as low as a company could go.

No wait the lowest a company can go is promise wages and not pay them.
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:04:47 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Hey there, I feel your pain. Best to you.
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:04:47 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas touche wylie!
Very well put.
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:04:48 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas I have been with 3 so far, and none have paid off.
Just a whole lot of hours, with no return.
It is now time to spend time with the kids and wife.
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:04:48 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Come on, wake up and smell the roses. The start-ups promise a lot of stock opyions, but 95% of the time they are worthless.
wilecoyote 12/4/2012 | 10:04:50 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas In a perfect world you'd have good people who have inate leadership skills where they don't have to be "killers" to get people to work hard. The ethic is driven by a shared sense of the mission, stock is evenly distributed where the reward is commensurate with the contributions/impact, etc. Unfortunately that's not the case very often.

Still, startups are more fun than public companies. I've never met one person who I thought was really impressive who said "I'd rather work at Cisco/LU/NT." Those guys are just interested in a paycheck, pension (LU, NT), the benefits, maybe a car allowance. They are the living dead as far as I'm concerned. I know a lot of guys working 30 hour weeks at Cisco for example.

To my friends on these boards: hang in there. Like I said, in light of things going on around the world, that you're healthy enough to write messages here, and alive is reason enough to feel pretty good. The hell with the guys at the office who are making your life miserable.


h 12/4/2012 | 10:04:50 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Still, startups are more fun than public companies. I've never met one person who I thought was really impressive who said "I'd rather work at Cisco/LU/NT." Those guys are just interested in a paycheck, pension (LU, NT), the benefits, maybe a car allowance. They are the living dead as far as I'm concerned. I know a lot of guys working 30 hour weeks at Cisco for example.
-----------------------
We'll perhaps u haven't seen a lot of people.....
If u say, a large percentage of people in big companies don't slog as much as those in startups, u have a point. Smartness does not have anything with not joining a start up. Perhaps in this economy, smart people who are still in big companies, who still work 50+hrs, just becoz they like the stuff that they do are the smartest of the lot - they know they won't make millions and they have a great balance in life and enjoy the work they do. Perhaps's u haven't met people in that category, while I have seen a lot of them - all top school graduates, the best that they are in their areas. I think, the worst is to say "never" on any topic in a msg board...there is always an exception which we would have never known/seen...there is only so much that each individual can know...

h 12/4/2012 | 10:04:50 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas
Not to mention how the constant 'bottom of the ninth, two outs, two strikes' panic mentality that never ends results in the crappiest, most shamefully shoddy thrown together work you'd ever be embarrassed to put your name on.

Kudos to you ! excellent post
jamesbond 12/4/2012 | 10:04:50 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas In a perfect world you'd have good people who have inate leadership skills where they don't have to be "killers" to get people to work hard. The ethic is driven by a shared sense of the mission, stock is evenly distributed where the reward is commensurate with the contributions/impact, etc. Unfortunately that's not the case very often.
---------------------------

Even distribution is NEVER the case. I agree
that decent startup is a better alternative
than Cisco/LU/NT. Although I am not sure
how long can you keep working hard without
getting to a "fuck it" point.
bluey 12/4/2012 | 10:04:51 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas > Also I never see those killer execs that you
> mention at wee hours in the lab. Never. Yet,
> they gain the most from a startup success.


Hooo baby, you hit the nail right on the head there! Sure, if a startup succeeds everybody wins to some extent, but the ones who give up their entire lives working until midnight 7 days a week make practically nothing compared to the the larger stakeholders, who don't put in nearly as much sweat. If the startup REALLY succeeds, well then that's great because even the dopes with 30,000 shares win huge. But the days of Cisco buying Arrowpoints for billions and billions and billions are over over over.

I've worked for three startups now, one which went IPO, another that was acquired. I do enjoy the lack of bureaucracy, quick decisionmaking, almost complete autonomy. But anyone who says that startups are free of politics is a fool. Since the startup culture attracts your alpha-male type-A hypercompetitive personalities, I found myself so often getting caught in the middle of idiotic chest-beating ego battles between two men (and trust me, they are ALWAYS ALWAYS men) over the most mundane, easily solved issues. Usually I'd just roll my eyes and fix it myself while the two apes battled over who had the bigger penis.

Then there's your typical one-upsmanship contests where the boys brag about never taking vacations, how late they stayed last night, how their kids don't remember their names anymore yadda yadda.

Not to mention how the constant 'bottom of the ninth, two outs, two strikes' panic mentality that never ends results in the crappiest, most shamefully shoddy thrown together work you'd ever be embarrassed to put your name on.

My fantasy start up is one where people are smart, really smart, where they care about producing something they can be proud of, where the culture has both men AND women, and where people work hard because they want to make something cool and high quality, not because they want to show what a tough guy they are. I'm not afraid of some ego, and I'm certainly not afraid to work hard. But I'm not going to walk the Bataan Death March for 2 years just to make some douchebag with mommy issues a rich douchebag with mommy issues. Have I soured on start ups? Yes and no. I've seen how they can be just as mind numbingly depressing as working for some large company but with longer hours. That said, I don't think I'll ever willingly work for a Nortel/Lucent/Cisco/IBM if I can help it.
fusionboy 12/4/2012 | 10:04:51 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Those days of "fun startup culture" are over. You join a startup so you don't have to deal with HR people, lots of paperwork, too much process, always feel like you're a politician to get anything done, can't compete against more nimble players in the market, and you're really only a cog in a large, complex machine that will definitely survive your absence.
______________________________________________

What you have just described is what makes startups fun!
greetings 12/4/2012 | 10:04:51 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas During this latest round of layoffs at Metro Optix, a disturbing trend has taken place.

The CEO of the company, David Orr has a son that works at the company as a Co-Op student in engineering. Been at the company less than 6 months.

Secondly, the V.P. of engineering, David Hamblin has a son that works at the company as a help desk/IT consultant. Has worked P/T on and off.

Lastly, The CFO Uday Bellary is the brother of the former CEO who still holds a prominent position on the board of directors.

None of these positions where affected by the layoffs and probably never will. Many families
of founding employees, who do not have the financial backing of these, were hit hard in a down market.

In this post Enron, Worldcom, Adelphia, ... environment, when will the corporate leaders step
up to the plate and do the right thing?

NB
jamesbond 12/4/2012 | 10:04:52 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas wilecoyote,

I don't think anyone should join a startup for the "fun and culture and pop machines and ping pong tables". populated by guys who want to work hard to make something happen and that breeds a certain sentiment among the folks who are driving the place, most often the E-staff. They are "killers."
--------------------------------

fun doesn't always mean pop machines and ping pong. Solving a challenging problem, without
too much politics and exploitation is fun.
Learning something new, creating something from
scratch is fun. I believe this is possible
without having "killer" executives.

Also I never see those killer execs that you
mention at wee hours in the lab. Never. Yet, they
gain the most from a startup success.

wilecoyote 12/4/2012 | 10:04:53 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Gardner, interesting post.

I don't think anyone should join a startup for the "fun and culture and pop machines and ping pong tables"--not quoting you obviously. And don't expect people to be "nice." I mean don't join for the culture because the startups who are focused and are in business to compete are usually populated by guys who want to work hard to make something happen and that breeds a certain sentiment among the folks who are driving the place, most often the E-staff. They are "killers."

Those days of "fun startup culture" are over. You join a startup so you don't have to deal with HR people, lots of paperwork, too much process, always feel like you're a politician to get anything done, can't compete against more nimble players in the market, and you're really only a cog in a large, complex machine that will definitely survive your absence.

And if you're joining a startup for the money, man, you're crazy. About 95% of startups fail so that means about 95% of the folks who join them fail along with them. It's painful.

Still, I'd rather work for a startup any day than for the likes of a Cisco, 3Com, Nortel, Intel, etc. It's just more stimulating, more interesting. You feel like you're in the bottom of the ninth, two outs, two strikes, all the time. If you can't handle that, don't play ball.

gladToBeFormerFuji 12/4/2012 | 10:04:53 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas None of the laid off employees received any severance. This was not a surprise to any, since those affected by the previous RIF did not recieve any either.

The ironic thing is that tose let go in June have probablly been the best treated of any Xalted employees. Consider:

Those let go in March were told early in the afternoon, and were on the street in a matter of a few hours, with no severance.

Those still there have been not been paid since mid June. I suspect the pending bankruptcy will severly diminish any chance of back wages. There are some good people in that bunch who deserve better (and some not so good who don't deserve better). Sounds as if Bob K put them all in a trance with assurances that payroll would be met when he was in town to talk to them last week.

Those cut in June were told on the 4th their last day would be the 14th. They were give a 10 day notice - which basically amounted to severance because nobody did anything except look for a job from that point on.

gardner 12/4/2012 | 10:04:54 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas
Life should be balanced. Fun and work. [. . .]Why can't we have a startup culture that respects this?


We could. The reason that we don't and thus why the unbalanced startup culture works is because people buy into the "dream". Keep in mind it isn't just the greedy VC and startup executives at fault. The worker bees also have a hand in their own enslavement. The greed and glory motivator induces them to accept conditions that are unacceptable for the promise of a great reward later. Just like the gambler that imagines himself a winner every time he bets the startup junkie imagines himself a millionaire if only he can get with the right startup and hang in there until they all get rich. It is self-delusion for most (remember most startups fail!) but as the kid said in "American Beauty": "Never underestimate the power of denial".

By the way, I think it will be very interesting to see how the mythology that permits startups to motivate people to lead unbalanced lives will change now that so many have been burned by startups. I know a lot of people who have become soured on the idea of a startup. I think the VC crowd and potential executives will have a harder time selling the false dream in the future.
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:04:58 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas What happened to that exObserver person, he was kind of a flash in the pan.
PURPLE_HAZE 12/4/2012 | 10:04:59 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas TheChief

If I turned it negative it would only be right for me to turn it back positive. :) Have a smile on me!
PURPLE_HAZE 12/4/2012 | 10:04:59 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas post:

The rumors I have heard is one person was fired for trying to show management that their idea would not fly. After that the engineers were hoping after having problems with the implementation of the Xalted Packet every step of the way, the Xalted Packet would be scrapped.

I also heard a rumor Xalted was in the process of patenting the Xalted Packet. If this is true the management truely had more money than sense. I guess now they have no money and still have no sense.

Can anyone confirm the patent rumors?

--------------------------------------------------My reply

If you are talking about a certain SE that was fired, I'm here to let you know that the Xalted Packet was only 20% of the reason for him getting fired. 80% was his attitude and the way he treated his co-workers. I was there.
------------------------------------------

I'm only telling you how I saw it. I had nothing to do with firing anyone but I can tell you that he was rude. His buddies might no think so but I really didn't know him that well. Just from what I saw. Sorry if I offended anyone.
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:04:59 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Has anyone noticed that this board has been rated number one for the number of posts since friday? I wonder what the duration record on this site is for that?
Let's keep it up, go for the record.
vindicator2000 12/4/2012 | 10:05:00 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas If you say I'm gun guy again I'll shoot something!
likesInFighting 12/4/2012 | 10:05:00 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Who cares about the guesses. Let's get some answers to questions answered.
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:05:00 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas PURPLE_HAZE wrote:

I'm 0 for 1 let me try again with out the names this time. I'm so far down the line that no one cares who I am.


TheChief= cajun?<- not 100% sure
TheDefender= vpe
vindicator2000= gun guy
WhiteKnight= hat guy
EnoughBS= We all know who this is.

--------------------------------------------------

WhiteKnight= hat "guy"
That's being very presumptuous to say the least.
Make that at least 0 for 2, since I don't know about the rest of your guesses.
TheChief 12/4/2012 | 10:05:00 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas If you are talking about a certain SE that was fired, I'm here to let you know that the Xalted Packet was only 20% of the reason for him getting fired. 80% was his attitude and the way he treated his co-workers. I was there.

-------------------------------------------------

I would think you had a lot to do with setting the tone from your first post above.
TheDefender 12/4/2012 | 10:05:01 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Nope, I'm not VPE. WhiteKnight thought so too.
PURPLE_HAZE 12/4/2012 | 10:05:01 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas I'm glad I could change the tone of the board it had gotten pretty negative. You guys have fun and let the past be the past and look to the future.
PURPLE_HAZE 12/4/2012 | 10:05:01 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas I guess I only know who I am :).
PURPLE_HAZE 12/4/2012 | 10:05:01 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas This is not fun anymore. I missed twice in the same department. I had to know what was going on because I couldn't do my job unless I knew the details. I would be the last to see the product.
PURPLE_HAZE 12/4/2012 | 10:05:02 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas I'll send you an E-mail if I guessed you correctly.
vindicator2000 12/4/2012 | 10:05:02 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas So far down the line?

Some of your earlier postings tend to indicate you may have been somewhere in the middle?



TheChief 12/4/2012 | 10:05:02 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Correct department, wrong engineer.
PURPLE_HAZE 12/4/2012 | 10:05:03 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas I'm 0 for 1 let me try again with out the names this time. I'm so far down the line that no one cares who I am.


TheChief= cajun?<- not 100% sure
TheDefender= vpe
vindicator2000= gun guy
WhiteKnight= hat guy
EnoughBS= We all know who this is.
vindicator2000 12/4/2012 | 10:05:03 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas PUPLE_HAZE wrote:

If only the people that are posting would have had man to man talks then, I think the company would have been better off.
-------------------------------------

We tried.
vindicator2000 12/4/2012 | 10:05:04 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas There is some stuff going on in Austin.
e-mail me at: [email protected] and
I'll give you a name if you're interested.

PURPLE_HAZE 12/4/2012 | 10:05:04 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas It's fun trying to figure out who's who. I missed on the WhiteKnight one. Sorry LightofDay I forgot about the other guy that got canned later.I shouldn't have named any names. I am an EXalted worker who had no say in anything that happened at the company. I was a worker bee who did what I was told. If only the people that are posting would have had man to man talks then, I think the company would have been better off. The thing about message boards is that you show who you really are. I'm still looking for work but I hold no anger for any one at Xalted. I liked working there and I liked the people working there. I did show up before 10:30 am though :). Can any of the wise people posting let me know if anyone is hiring?
TheChief 12/4/2012 | 10:05:06 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Today it is very hard for a company to stay alive since no one is spending money. How is Xalted going to get the investments they need to arise from the dead? I would hate to see the good idea die! Maybe they should find some one to buy them!
LightOfDay 12/4/2012 | 10:05:07 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas , there appears to be some conflict in TheDefender's post.
-------------------------------------------
>TheDefender writes:

>FYI, if WhiteKnight had spent some time reading >the "Terms of Use" of LR message boards (instead >of reading dictionaries for meanings of words), >he would have certainly seen the following:

>You agree not to:
>.....
>1. Disparage the products or services of any >company or individual.
>.....
>2. Use explicit/obscene language or solicit/post >sexually explicit images (actual or simulated).
>3. Harass, threaten, embarrass, or do anything >else to a board or chat participant that is >unwanted.

--------------------------------
Let's review:

>TheDefender writes:
>Vindicator2000, hope Celion is doing o.k. though >I am hearing otherwise.

I think that violates rule number 1.

>TheDefender writes:
>EnoughBS, ignore WhiteKnight. He isn't worth >your time.

I think that violates rule number 3.

I do appreciate that you didn't violate rule number 2.

These are minor examples, I admit, but I thought it was worth pointing out.

As far as disparagment goes, I was asked to sign a lengthy non-disparagment clause, when I was let go, to be able to get my severance pay. In all the companies I have worked for, I have never seen anything like this. This is a grey area, since the truth can be considered disparaging to the perpetrator of lies. I of course, did not sign it, and have never looked back, until now.
As far as being bitter about losing my job, I have to thank the management of Xalted, for releasing me from the worst job nightmare, I have ever incountered. I only hope no one else has to be subjected to this kind of workplace.


likesInFighting 12/4/2012 | 10:05:07 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas TheDefender wrote

Must have been a false alarm then (heard from a friend of mine who jumped ship recently). I hope they succeed. The last thing we need is more failed startups in the Telecom Corridor.

-------------------------------------------------

Why bring your friend into this. I bet there are not too many people who have jumped ship at Celion lately.
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:05:08 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas TheDefender wrote:

Since when did we go away from the "innocent until proven guilty" concept? Since when did it become o.k. to accuse a person with purported rumors and then have the person defend himself?
--------------------------------------------------
As I stated before, all I wanted was a response to the rumor that was generated from within your company. I never made the accusation, or do you not comprehend.

--------------------------------------------------

FYI, if WhiteKnight had spent some time reading the "Terms of Use" of LR message boards (instead of reading dictionaries for meanings of words), he would have certainly seen the following:
--------------------------------------------------
I did read the "Terms of Use"
--------------------------------------------------
You agree not to:
.....
* Disparage the products or services of any company or individual.

.....
* Use explicit/obscene language or solicit/post sexually explicit images (actual or simulated).
* Harass, threaten, embarrass, or do anything else to a board or chat participant that is unwanted.

So, WhiteKnight, there you have it. I know you are bitter about loosing your job here. That is no excuse to accuse people you used to work with.

This will be my last post on this subject.

EnoughBS, ignore WhiteKnight. He isn't worth your time. Vindicator2000, hope Celion is doing o.k. though I am hearing otherwise.

--------------------------------------------------
Hey, EnoughBS is the one that has been doing the name calling and desparaging. Making reference to me as a gutless whimp, and saying my a-- ought to be hauled off to court.
Come on.
TheDefender 12/4/2012 | 10:05:08 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas TheDefender wrote:
Vindicator2000, hope Celion is doing o.k. though I am hearing otherwise
----------------------

Vindicator2000 wrote:
Get you hearing checked.

-----------------------

Must have been a false alarm then (heard from a friend of mine who jumped ship recently). I hope they succeed. The last thing we need is more failed startups in the Telecom Corridor.

TheDefender 12/4/2012 | 10:05:09 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas WhiteKnight wrote:

Apparently EnoughBS cannot read and comprehend what he is reading. The key to the statement is:

"since rumor had it"

This was information I was given from several employees close to the situation. Like I said in my last post, if this is not true, then simply dispute it with facts.
A person can stand and claim that the sky is green all day long, but without substantiating facts to back it up, there is no validity to the statement.
PLEASE, I urge you to get away from the name calling and get to the facts. Or, are you afraid that any facts you could come up with will substantiate the stated rumor?

--------------------------------------------------

Since when did we go away from the "innocent until proven guilty" concept? Since when did it become o.k. to accuse a person with purported rumors and then have the person defend himself?

FYI, if WhiteKnight had spent some time reading the "Terms of Use" of LR message boards (instead of reading dictionaries for meanings of words), he would have certainly seen the following:

You agree not to:
.....
* Disparage the products or services of any company or individual.
.....
* Use explicit/obscene language or solicit/post sexually explicit images (actual or simulated).
* Harass, threaten, embarrass, or do anything else to a board or chat participant that is unwanted.

So, WhiteKnight, there you have it. I know you are bitter about loosing your job here. That is no excuse to accuse people you used to work with.

This will be my last post on this subject.

EnoughBS, ignore WhiteKnight. He isn't worth your time. Vindicator2000, hope Celion is doing o.k. though I am hearing otherwise.
vindicator2000 12/4/2012 | 10:05:09 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas TheDefender wrote:
Vindicator2000, hope Celion is doing o.k. though I am hearing otherwise
----------------------

Get you hearing checked.

vindicator2000 12/4/2012 | 10:05:09 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas This was a program pushed by HR.
It never amounted to much.
It was a nice thought though.

I wonder how much money was spent on this?

My personal opinion is engineers should not be hired by start up companies that require this basic level of social indoctrination.
likesInFighting 12/4/2012 | 10:05:09 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas TheDefender wrote

EnoughBS, ignore WhiteKnight. He isn't worth your time. Vindicator2000, hope Celion is doing o.k. though I am hearing otherwise.

-----------------------------------------------

Tit for tat. What is this my company is doing bad so I hope yours is too?


WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:05:09 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Xalted Networks - Benefits

Benefits:
G求 Pre-IPO Stock Option
G求 Medical/Dental/Vision
G求 Life/Voluntary Life
G求 401K
G求 Short-term disability
G求 Long-term disability
G求 Vacation/Holidays
G求 Flex hours

EEOC


--------------------------------------------------

Nothing mentioned here about salaries.
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:05:10 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas To reflect our commitment and support of our employees, we have adopted the Character First- Program. This program is based on specific principles and values shared by Xalted Networks. With this approach, organizational behavior translates into strong and lasting business relationships, customer partnerships and outstanding employee performance.

The following are some of the guiding principles of Xalted Networks:

G求 Our character is a pre-requisite for success
G求 Our environment is highly entrepreneurial, empowering and caring
G求 Our people are experts in their field and share stake in the company
G求 Our ideals determine how we do business
G求 Our culture is unique and critical to operational excellence
G求 Our workforce demonstrates high energy, unwavering commitment and a mission achievable attitude
G求 Our leaders practice servant leadership
G求 Our communications is informal, direct, non-bureaucratic and immediate
G求 Our process is defined, measurable, monitored and results rewarded
G求 Our focus and faith is unwavering

In summary, Xalted Networks is committed to building a better kind of company that is truly "elevated in character, rank, status and purpose..."


--------------------------------------------------

I cmae sccross this from their web site.
Any comments?

WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:05:10 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas oops, should be came accross this.
vindicator2000 12/4/2012 | 10:05:10 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas TheChief wrote:

I agree; however, do they have any engineers still there that can pull this off?

------------------------------------
That' a trick question!

The real question is;

Are there any engineers
in India that can pull this off?

(With or without pay)
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:05:10 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas I was wondering if the laid off employees received any severence pay? Or did Xalted completely discard the old employees?

Maybe one of the laid off Xalted employees can comment.
--------------------------------------------------
I was wondering the same thing. And also, if there was a severence, what were the strings attached to it.
Can someone comment on this one?
TheChief 12/4/2012 | 10:05:10 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas vindicator2000 wrote

The 7X, in concept, is still a good idea.
I believe the senior management knows the market well enough to develop the right product, Now if they will just get out of the way of the engineers and let them leverage off the self solutions .....who know?

--------------------------------------------------

I agree; however, do they have any engineers still there that can pull this off?
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:05:11 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Apparently EnoughBS cannot read and comprehend what he is reading. The key to the statement is:

"since rumor had it"

This was information I was given from several employees close to the situation. Like I said in my last post, if this is not true, then simply dispute it with facts.
A person can stand and claim that the sky is green all day long, but without substantiating facts to back it up, there is no validity to the statement.
PLEASE, I urge you to get away from the name calling and get to the facts. Or, are you afraid that any facts you could come up with will substantiate the stated rumor?
vindicator2000 12/4/2012 | 10:05:11 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Hi EnoughBS;

I have to admit I have no evidence that supports this accusation. (It was in bad taste to).

Perhaps WhiteNight can provide some "proof"?
vindicator2000 12/4/2012 | 10:05:11 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Hey LightOfDay!

Lets remember, these guys are under a lot of stress. I think the case has been made that Xalted Packet was a bad idea.

The only avenue left open is the venue of personal attacks.

I for one hope that they are able to pull a rabbit out of their hat and get back on their feet. I also hope they have the wisdom to cast aside some of the goofier architectural sacred cows that have shackled them to the lab for so very long.

The 7X, in concept, is still a good idea.
I believe the senior management knows the market well enough to develop the right product, Now if they will just get out of the way of the engineers and let them leverage off the self solutions .....who know?
EnoughBS 12/4/2012 | 10:05:11 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas vindicator2000 asked which of the statement made by WhiteKnight was false. Here it is:

"can't blame them for that though, since rumor had it that one of the upper managers was raping them with forced kickbacks under the table to keep their jobs."

(you can understand the reaction it evoked. Not only the rumor is totally false but the language used was repugnant)
LightOfDay 12/4/2012 | 10:05:12 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas EnoughBS writes :

This writer who calls himself WhiteKnight (better name would have been a " GutlessWhimp") does not have guts to be specific and name names before making foolish and false accusations (like the one below)and have his "a--" put in a sling and hauled to a court.

---------------------------------------------
"Let he that is without guilt, cast the first stone"

It is obvious that you and the defenders of Xalted in this message board, do not live by your
own Xalted moralities. I don't know who WhiteKnight is, but at least he seems to have the
common decency NOT to name names in this public forum, like your other defender, PURPLE_HAZE did
with my name. You also talk about false accusations, like PURPLE_HAZE attributing WightNight's post to me. I have seen nothing from WightKnight's post, that I would call false accusations. Like vindicator2000 has said, please
elaborate.

I have no problem with my name being put into the public realm, because I have nothing to hide. Maybe you and the other Xalted defenders would like to come clean with your names, so that the public can make correct character assessments, and decide for themselves if they would ever want to work with or for these people. That is unless you are ashamed of your actions, amd might possibly have your "a--" put in a sling and hauled to court.

WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:05:13 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas EnoughBS wrote:

This guy is not only a whimp but too naive to know that when someone makes false and stupid accusations and upsets someone, there is a strong reaction. If the intent was to evoke such a reaction and then foolishly claim that there must be some truth to the rumor is more rediculous than the original posting! We all know about the first amendment but that does not give anyone a right to spread false rumors in a public forum.

-------------------------------------------------
First of all, get your facts straight. I did not make the accusation, I just questioned the validity of it, in otherwords brought it to light.
Based on your response, the only conclusion that could be made is that it must be true. If you wanted to rebut the statement, then you should simply state that this was not the case, and leave it alone. But you continue to harp on it.

If it is a false rumor, then dispute it with the facts, and refrain from the name calling. It is apparent that you are the naive one here.
likesInFighting 12/4/2012 | 10:05:13 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas I was wondering if the laid off employees received any severence pay? Or did Xalted completely discard the old employees?

Maybe one of the laid off Xalted employees can comment.
vindicator2000 12/4/2012 | 10:05:13 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Greetings EnoughBS;

Please ellaborate on which of WhiteNight's statements are false? I would like to make sure we are all clear on this.

Thanks
EnoughBS 12/4/2012 | 10:05:13 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas WhiteNight wrote:
Apparently there must be some truth to the "rumor" as I stated, otherwise there would not be so much animosity towards me. sometimes the truth does hurt, As all can see.
Apparently you are one of those types of people that oppose the first amendment. If you even know what that is.

This guy is not only a whimp but too naive to know that when someone makes false and stupid accusations and upsets someone, there is a strong reaction. If the intent was to evoke such a reaction and then foolishly claim that there must be some truth to the rumor is more rediculous than the original posting! We all know about the first amendment but that does not give anyone a right to spread false rumors in a public forum.
vindicator2000 12/4/2012 | 10:05:14 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas I know the US employees are not getting paid.

I do not know what the payroll status is for group in India. I assume the Inidan group still exists because "The Defender" said they do.

I wonder if they ARE getting paid?

Anybody know?

likesInFighting 12/4/2012 | 10:05:14 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas
Is it true that the remaining employees are not getting paid right now?

If that is true, I wonder if they are thinking Xalted will rise from the ashes as they box up the companies equipment and move it to someones garage. Loyality is one thing, but it must be a two way street, what is Xalted doing to help it's employees out?

Wake up guys, if Xalted survives it will be with no employees in the United States.

inquisitivus 12/4/2012 | 10:05:14 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas vindicator2000 wrote:

Your recommendations ring true to me.

P.S. inquisitivus, please contact me at [email protected]

I'd like to introduce my self. Also, I have some off-line questions I'd like to ask you.

--------------------------------------------------

Expect an email contact this evening.
I would be more than happy to enter into discussions with you.
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:05:15 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Yes you are right about that, but the honest postings are few and far between. Most of the postings have been personel attacks.

------------------------
Just where are the remaining funds?

Very good question. Any responses from the defenders?
vindicator2000 12/4/2012 | 10:05:15 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Greetings; WhiteNight

I've seen honest responses from the "defenders".
I also detect a lot of frustration. This is understandable considering the circumstances they are in.

The Defender wrote some time back:

The H1B engineers we had (and we still have them in tact in our overseas site) worked their ass off when some of the others were bashing the management.
----------------------------------------------
I wonder if the overseas "working their asses off" group is still getting paid? That's an interesting question ... isn't it? We know the local "non-working their asses off" group is not.

Just where are the remaining funds?


WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:05:16 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Thank you vindicator2000 for your honesty. I have yet to see any honesty from any of the defenders of Xalted.
vindicator2000 12/4/2012 | 10:05:16 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas inquisitivus wrote:

Believe me, I know this from experience. I have looked at many startup ventures that have had the wrong chemistry.
-----------------------------------------
Interesting observation.

Xalted Networks is the only company I have ever been with where the President, VPs and Directors had such a direct hand in the design. I am not suggesting that senior management should keep out of it. Far from that, they should be concentrating on the product requirements and should be involved in the review process to make sure that engineering stays on track. The senior management at Xalted certainly had the domain knowledge to contribute at this level.

However, what we had at Xalted was a mandated architecture, sometimes down to the functional and chip level, that was created at the hands of senior management and passed down as the high level blue print for the design. Attempts to deviate from that blueprint were met with stiff resistance.

Some aspects of the design were sacred cows that could not be changed.

Your recommendations ring true to me.

P.S. inquisitivus, please contact me at [email protected]

I'd like to introduce my self. Also, I have some off-line questions I'd like to ask you.
vindicator2000 12/4/2012 | 10:05:16 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Enough BS Wrote:
This writer who calls himself WhiteKnight (better name would have been a " GutlessWhimp") does not have guts to be specific and name names before making foolish and false accusations (like the one below)and have his "a--" put in a sling and hauled to a court.
---------------------------------------------
Concerning WhiteNight's comment
The inexperienced must work very hard to produce a fraction of the work that the experienced can produce. What I saw when I was there was that they would come in at ~10:30 am. work till 12:00 take lunch till 1:30 then work just long enough in the evening to get the free meal on Xalted
---------------------------------------
I must admit that the accusation WhiteNight makes concerning the work ethic of some of the employees is true. I wish it were not so.
In any event EnoughBS, if you disagree with WhiteNight's accusation then simply state so.
I am afraid you have reduced yourself to the level of name caller. If you can find it in you, try to keep the discussion at an intellectual level.

I grant you that defending the indefensible is a taunting task. Good Luck!
light-headed 12/4/2012 | 10:05:16 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas WC,

hahaha... ROFLMAO!

;-)

but he can do lean, mean startups and deliver product... almost all the bubble startups burn money like crazy and have a hard time delivering anything but shit products.
light1der 12/4/2012 | 10:05:17 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Any details on how bad the layoffs ... there?
wilecoyote 12/4/2012 | 10:05:17 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Bobby Johnson makes PK Dubey look like a saint. Johnson is a complete psycho. Talk about a work environment. My God, this guy should be in a nut house not running a public company.

WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:05:18 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas EnoughBS, you are nothing but a big meanie britches ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>
so there.

Come on guy grow up.
If you cannot make at least a halfway effort at communications, give it up. All you seem to do is a bunch of childish name calling.
light-headed 12/4/2012 | 10:05:18 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas whosrdaddy,

Sorry to hear about your pain. I have gone through the same thing. I hear similar stories from ex-employees at other SV startups like Maple Optical, Jasmine, etc. Revolving door in development is ALWAYS a bad sign.

I have to give Force-10 credit for actually getting out a product but it sounds like they did it at the cost of many loyal employees.

Someone like Bobby Johnson could probably deliver the same or better product for a lot less than $170M too... he could probably have done it for $25-30M i bet. He built all of Foundry Networks on something like $20-25M in funding.

The days of lean, mean, well-run startups are back... THANK GOD!
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:05:20 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas EnoughBS wrote:

This writer who calls himself WhiteKnight (better name would have been a " GutlessWhimp") does not have guts to be specific and name names before making foolish and false accusations (like the one below)and have his "a--" put in a sling and hauled to a court.

"
The inexperienced must work very hard to produce a fraction of the work that the experienced can produce. What I saw when I was there was that they would come in at ~10:30 am. work till 12:00 take lunch till 1:30 then work just long enough in the evening to get the free meal on Xalted.
I can't blame them for that though, since rumor had it that one of the upper managers was raping them with forced kickbacks under the table to keep their jobs."

Be a man and not a gutless whimp!

--------------------------------------------------
Update to last post:

wimp Pronunciation Key (wmp) Slang
n.
A person who is regarded as weak or ineffectual: G牵the impression that he is a colorless, indecisive wimp, and not a leader among menG钎 (James J. Kilpatrick).

intr.v. wimped, wimp-+ing, wimps
To be timid or cowardly. Usually used with out: wimped out and refused to jump off the high diving board.


--------------------------------------------------
wimpish adj.
wimpy adj.

Source: The American Heritage- Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright - 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.


--------------------------------------------------

WIMP Pronunciation Key (wmp)
n.
A subatomic particle that has a large mass and interacts with other matter primarily through gravitation.


--------------------------------------------------
[w(eakly) i(nteracting) m(assive) p(article).]

Source: The American Heritage- Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright - 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.


-------------------------------------------------

wimp

n : a person who lacks confidence, is irresolute and wishy-washy [syn: chicken, crybaby]
Source: WordNet - 1.6, - 1997 Princeton University

You need to learn the english language, and the meaning of the words you use.
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:05:20 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas This writer who calls himself WhiteKnight (better name would have been a " GutlessWhimp") does not have guts to be specific and name names before making foolish and false accusations (like the one below)and have his "a--" put in a sling and hauled to a court.

"
The inexperienced must work very hard to produce a fraction of the work that the experienced can produce. What I saw when I was there was that they would come in at ~10:30 am. work till 12:00 take lunch till 1:30 then work just long enough in the evening to get the free meal on Xalted.
I can't blame them for that though, since rumor had it that one of the upper managers was raping them with forced kickbacks under the table to keep their jobs."

Be a man and not a gutless whimp!
--------------------------------------------------
Apparently there must be some truth to the "rumor" as I stated, otherwise there would not be so much animosity towards me. sometimes the truth does hurt, As all can see.
Apparently you are one of those types of people that oppose the first amendment. If you even know what that is.
EnoughBS 12/4/2012 | 10:05:20 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas This writer who calls himself WhiteKnight (better name would have been a " GutlessWhimp") does not have guts to be specific and name names before making foolish and false accusations (like the one below)and have his "a--" put in a sling and hauled to a court.

"
The inexperienced must work very hard to produce a fraction of the work that the experienced can produce. What I saw when I was there was that they would come in at ~10:30 am. work till 12:00 take lunch till 1:30 then work just long enough in the evening to get the free meal on Xalted.
I can't blame them for that though, since rumor had it that one of the upper managers was raping them with forced kickbacks under the table to keep their jobs."

Be a man and not a gutless whimp!
whosrdaddy 12/4/2012 | 10:05:20 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Hey Wilecoyote,

I've read your posts with great interest in the past. To answer your question: yes, I am an engineer at Force10 and YES this is EXACTLY what the work environment is like. Anyone who tells you otherwise is not being forthright with you. Yes, I am still "alive", but so what!

Let's see what has taken place at Force10. Here's a list of directors/execs that have been shown the door:

VP Sales (after 6 mos)
CFO (after 3 mos)
VP Operations (after 8 mos)
A few Directors in Operations (in fact, I'm not sure how many managers/Directors are left in Ops)
CTO and co-founder
Dir of s/w

Did I miss anyone?

You have no idea how bad the morale really is. The company has a great product, there is no question about that. But the E-staff, with comments from the CEO telling employees they will be "shot" (fired) if they are not an "A-grade" employee is too much to take, even in this market. I guarantee you that Force10 will lose many, many engineers when the economy turns around. The only thing that will keep employees around is the possibility of making money. Other than that, I'm convinced you will see a flood of Force10 resumes. Are you listening PK?
inquisitivus 12/4/2012 | 10:05:21 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas vindicator2000 wrote:

Sad but true.

The designers (senior management) did not fully comprehend the problems of ingress policing and traffic aggregation from the line shelves to the "required" central office terminal (XCS100 shelf).

I think if this one point could have been driven home early enough, the obvious need for a real network processor on the line shelf would have stopped any development on the Xalted Packet and its ill-fated custom FPGA's.
------------------------------------------------

Sounds like to me that they had a very foggy idea of what needed to be done, and strayed off track during the process of incubation. Thats what tends to happen when marketing and sales people try to come up with details to conceptual ideas.
I would give a word of advice to future startup ventures, come up with the high level application ideas, then get very experienced engineers involved early on, to keep the technical side in check. It is very difficult for sales and marketing people, regardless of how technically sharp they are, to keep the technical feasability of a concept in sight. It takes a balance of both sides to make a conceptual idea come to fruition.
Beleive me, I know this from experience. I have looked at many startup ventures that have had the wrong chemistry.
wilecoyote 12/4/2012 | 10:05:22 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas OK I give up on Force10. UNCLE! I've seen enough on these boards to make me think again about what I "know" about the company. I guess I've been wrong about the place and I don't mind a bit.

If you are really an engineer and that's the way things are around there, WOW. My reads are off and are coming from "yes men" inside. I thought I knew them better. You won't hear anything else out of me regarding the company.

This is depressing stuff. Hopefully the management will get its act together and remember that we're all human beings at the end of the day with needs beyond money and winning.

Hang in there, man. At least you're alive.
Iipoed 12/4/2012 | 10:05:23 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas even crisco would not touch this no margin business. That is why Alcatel is where they are. Buy the business, hope it works and worry later about staying in business
sailor 12/4/2012 | 10:05:23 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas This is truly believable. I worked for the CEO in the past and "we will shoot you" is something he would say.

As for grade "A" employee. Be a good pair of hands willing to do anything and don't cross your boss.
jamesbond 12/4/2012 | 10:05:23 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Let's see WileCoyote tell us more about this "great" company... I have been hearing these stories for a year... bad, bad, bad karma... don't think these guys will make it to Fremont much less Navarone.

-----------------------------------

intimidation will never create a good product,
no matter how hard people work. All this BS
about working late nights being a sign of
success is wrong. Putting in gazilion hrs
of work in counter productive anyways. Try
it sometimes: write some code after working
7 straight hours and then look at it next
morning.

Life should be balanced. Fun and work. I slogged my balls off at a startup that went under. I
completely missed my son growing from 2 to 4
years old.

Why can't we have a startup culture that respects
this? Regardless it would be very interesting
to see what "real" products got developed
under 16hrs a day work culture? By real
I mean ones that were really successful
and not hyped up.

Anybody any inputs?
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:05:23 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Maybe the management from Xalted and Force10 ought to get togather, they could clean out the rest of the telecom/datacom industry of good free thinking engineers, then they would be left with a bunch of automatrons, which seems what they want.
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:05:23 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas WOW, FORCE10 sounds just like Xalted, when it comes to management tactics.
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:05:23 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas It is my understanding that there has been a reprieve from the bankruptcy judge to allow Xalted to get their equipment out of the building that they had been locked out of for non payment of the lease.

Word to the wise:
If the president has any intentions of moving the assets out of the country, this will be a violation of the chapter 11 guidelines, which can result in criminal charges being filed.
I would sure hate to see any of the people involved with Xalted end up in prison, just for the effort of trying to make this thing successful.
Come on guys, Kondomoori has been baiting this stuff from the get go. He has no conscience when it comes to using someone to do his dirty deeds, just look at what he has done to the president in past ventures. If you want to know more about that, just go ask the president. If he has the least bit of honesty he will disclose at least the highlights of that debacle.
light-headed 12/4/2012 | 10:05:24 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Let's see WileCoyote tell us more about this "great" company... I have been hearing these stories for a year... bad, bad, bad karma... don't think these guys will make it to Fremont much less Navarone.
inlight 12/4/2012 | 10:05:25 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas anozynot: DALLAS -- Alcatel (NYSE: ALA - message board), the worldwide leader in broadband access solutions, and SBC Communications Inc. (NYSE: SBC - message board), a global communications leader and the largest digital subscriber line (DSL) service provider in North America, have reached a multi-year, multi-million dollar agreement to deploy the Alcatel 7340 Fiber-to-the-User (FTTU) solution for residential customers in SBC Pacific BellG侵s Mission Bay project in San Francisco.
---------

I do not know about its effect on PON, But I can tell that this sounds like a death knell for CSCO DSL business, if they are still in that market.

IL
anozynot 12/4/2012 | 10:05:25 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas DALLAS -- Alcatel (NYSE: ALA - message board), the worldwide leader in broadband access solutions, and SBC Communications Inc. (NYSE: SBC - message board), a global communications leader and the largest digital subscriber line (DSL) service provider in North America, have reached a multi-year, multi-million dollar agreement to deploy the Alcatel 7340 Fiber-to-the-User (FTTU) solution for residential customers in SBC Pacific BellG侵s Mission Bay project in San Francisco.

Using AlcatelG侵s 7340 FTTU solution SBCG侵s network will have the capability to deliver to consumers voice, data, and video services over an all optical network including emerging high bandwidth services like High Definition TV (HDTV). The Alcatel 7340 delivers high quality voice, interactive video supporting hundreds of analog and digital channels, and Internet access at much higher speeds than traditional dial-up modems.

Alcatel and SBC are working to define a network architecture that supports current DSL Internet access service and makes way for FTTU technology, which offers additional solutions for SBCG侵s small business and home office customers. "Alcatel is leveraging its strengths in broadband access to help support SBCG侵s next generation of broadband services," said Lee Doyle, group vice president, Network Infrastructure, IDC. "This announcement represents a step forward in the nascent development of U.S. fiber-based customer services."

This FTTU deployment in Mission Bay is the most recent in a series of significant contract extensions SBC has awarded Alcatel. These contracts are for the Alcatel 7300 ASAM for central-office based DSL service delivery; Litespan next generation digital loop carrier neighborhood gateways, with integrated DSL capabilities; and multiservice, multiprotocol data networking platforms including both the Alcatel 7670 Routing Switch Platform and Alcatel 7470 Multiservice Platform.

switchrus 12/4/2012 | 10:05:26 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas G牵Every employee is afraid to speak out (myself included) for fear of retribution - getting walked out on a moments notice with no warning. If I could go somewhere else right now, I would, but there just isn't anywhere to goG钎

That blows, but remember loyalty to a company is a two way street. If the company has bad Karma to employees, it will come back to haunt them. Are they locking the supply cabinets yet?G仟LOL

Job market is tough, but work on the old resume and the network before the ax falls, sounds like the management there is ruling by force and intimidation, sad thing is they can get away with this sort of thing right now. I once worked at a place in the early 90G侵s where one manager used to hand people tasks with impossible deadlines with the spoken comment of get it done, I have two people who want your job. HeG侵s still there and now a VP, so goes to show D*** Heads like this go to the top.

Good luck!
whosrdaddy 12/4/2012 | 10:05:26 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas
Hello to everyone in networking land. I am basically at the point where I just don't care what happens at Force10 anymore. And let me tell everyone why.

Yes, there was a lay off at Force10 last Friday 7/12 - about 10%-15% I believe. The mood in the office afterwards was beyond depressing. No one felt like doing a thing. The worst part of it is no one knows who is going to be next. People seem to just disappear at Force10, with no warning, and with seemingly no apparent reason.

Almost every person I speak with on a daily basis would leave Force10 if there were other opportunities elsewhere - myself included. Some may ask, why is this person writing this? This is maybe the only medium where one's opinions and feelings can be expressed. Basically, I'm fed up with the way people are used and then thrown out the door at Force10, with the way managers are cut and entire organizations left hanging with no direction. Every employee is afraid to speak out (myself included) for fear of retribution - getting walked out on a moments notice with no warning. If I could go somewhere else right now, I would, but there just isn't anywhere to go. Most people will not work more than 40hrs anymore and will not work weekends.

How would you like to work in an environment where a group of employees were emphatically told by the CEO:

"If you are NOT an 'A' grade employee, we will shoot you. You will be shot (meaning, you will be fired on the spot)."

And then have the CEO say with almost a sense of pride, "We shot over 50 people last year and we will shoot more."

The real problem at Force10 is that no one knows what constitutes an "A" grade employee - no one that I know has ever been told the criteria. I've seen some very good engineers work night and day and then get shown the door (and no one really knows why).

So in the end, if you are an engineer, and are considering Force10, think twice before you decide to say yes. Force10 is by far the worst work environment I have ever worked in.
vindicator2000 12/4/2012 | 10:05:28 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas inquisitivus writes:

Are you kidding me, unable to oversubscribe an access product?
No policing and shaping?

-----------------------
Sad but true.

The designers (senior management) did not fully comprehend the problems of ingress policing and traffic aggregation from the line shelves to the "required" central office terminal (XCS100 shelf).

I think if this one point could have been driven home early enough, the obvious need for a real network processor on the line shelf would have stopped any development on the Xalted Packet and its ill-fated custom FPGA's.
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:05:28 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas inquisitivus wrote:

Are you kidding me, unable to oversubscribe an access product?
No policing and shaping?
I ask then, where is the value added of this product?
No CLEC, ILEC, or independant for that matter would ever buy a product like that, their revenues mandate oversubscription.
------------------------------------

You are absolutely right.
As a matter of fact there were good engineers that were booted out the door for trying to bring these issues to light.
As the old saying goes, when bad news is delivered, shoot the messenger. This was the philosophy of the management.
inquisitivus 12/4/2012 | 10:05:28 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas vindicator2000 wrote:

This means you could not over-subscribe the OC-48 ring. It follows, the 7X could not handle VBR.

Also:
The NP could handle 64,000k queues. That's roughly
16 DS3s UNIs worth of ATM, What are you going to do with the other 32 DS3s on the OC-48 ring?

The lack on ingress policing at the line cards was a huge mistake.

--------------------------------------------------
Are you kidding me, unable to oversubscribe an access product?
No policing and shaping?
I ask then, where is the value added of this product?
No CLEC, ILEC, or independant for that matter would ever buy a product like that, their revenues mandate oversubscription.
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:05:29 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas vindicator2000 replied:

Enough BS writes:

The same person doesn't seem to have read (or comprehend) my statement on Xalted supporting other vendor's nodes on the network side. Please read carefully.

-------------------------------------------
I have never said anything either way about customer interfaces.

What I have said is that the Xalted Packet was an enormous waste of precious resources to implement something that was not needed.

REMEMBER: I said that MPLS was NOT needed for the 7X. ATM would have sufficed. The Xalted Packet was simply a costly mistake.

My statements about MPLS were made to correct your mis-statements. However, for your education:

The ultimate goal is to deliver MPLS to the CPE. The strength of MPLS (from point to point in the network) is a concept called a label stack. The label stack allows the network processor to aggregate several flows into a single label address.

At any network element a label stack can be terminated. The final termination reveals packets in the native protocol, ATM, IP whatever. There is no need for special processing of the payload.

If the terminating equipment uses ATM as its native transport it will perform the usual AAL5 stuff on non-ATM payloads.

Also, now that you have brought up the Network side;

The 7X required, what amounts to, its own private proprietary ATM switch at the terminal. This added a very large initial entry cost to the product. There is no particular reason why the 7X line shelf could not have operated on a public ring (except for its Xalted Packet format). The Xalted Packet forced the service provider to invest in a very expensive piece of equipment that did no more than strip away Xalted Packets.

While some might argue that this terminal equipment had some future value, its net affect (in the present) was to place a barrier to entry for the line shelf.

Too Bad.

A simple line shelf would have sold like hot cakes. We spent to much time and money on a grand scheme, rather than focusing on the customer's immediate problem.
--------------------------------------------------

touche vindicator2000!
Very well put.
TheChief 12/4/2012 | 10:05:29 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Not only was policing needed on the line cards, it was also needed on the control card. This was presented over a year ago; however, since management did not understand policing and shaping, it was determined it was not needed.
inquisitivus 12/4/2012 | 10:05:30 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas vindicator 2000 writes:

"By the way one of the problems MPLS solves is the very busy rounting tables required for ATM connections. MPLS means Multi-Protocol-Label-Switching, it IS intended to be used for routing within the box.

Get your facts straight."

If you say so. Please explain how the MPLS protocol (which maps the logical VPI/VCI or "shim" layer (in case of pure IP packets)label into a node's physical address/location) can be used to route a packet or cell from the network interface to a specific line catd and a port on that line card. You must know more about MPLS than everyone else in the world.

Also, the person who said Xalted Packet does not contain routing/switching info in it does not understand what self-routing and switching based on overhead bytes within the packet means. The same person doesn't seem to have read (or comprehend) my statement on Xalted supporting other vendor's nodes on the network side. Please read carefully.

--------------------------------------------------
1) All of the switch fabrics that I am familiar with are very capable of routing MPLS packets to a given port on a given line card. That is what they were designed to do. Maybe your architecture was not carefully thought through.

2) I don't recall a posting to that effect. Could you please include a snipit from the posting in question?
vindicator2000 12/4/2012 | 10:05:30 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Enough BS writes:

The same person doesn't seem to have read (or comprehend) my statement on Xalted supporting other vendor's nodes on the network side. Please read carefully.

-------------------------------------------
I have never said anything either way about customer interfaces.

What I have said is that the Xalted Packet was an enormous waste of precious resources to implement something that was not needed.

REMEMBER: I said that MPLS was NOT needed for the 7X. ATM would have sufficed. The Xalted Packet was simply a costly mistake.

My statements about MPLS were made to correct your mis-statements. However, for your education:

The ultimate goal is to deliver MPLS to the CPE. The strength of MPLS (from point to point in the network) is a concept called a label stack. The label stack allows the network processor to aggregate several flows into a single label address.

At any network element a label stack can be terminated. The final termination reveals packets in the native protocol, ATM, IP whatever. There is no need for special processing of the payload.

If the terminating equipment uses ATM as its native transport it will perform the usual AAL5 stuff on non-ATM payloads.

Also, now that you have brought up the Network side;

The 7X required, what amounts to, its own private proprietary ATM switch at the terminal. This added a very large initial entry cost to the product. There is no particular reason why the 7X line shelf could not have operated on a public ring (except for its Xalted Packet format). The Xalted Packet forced the service provider to invest in a very expensive piece of equipment that did no more than strip away Xalted Packets.

While some might argue that this terminal equipment had some future value, its net affect (in the present) was to place a barrier to entry for the line shelf.

Too Bad.

A simple line shelf would have sold like hot cakes. We spent to much time and money on a grand scheme, rather than focusing on the customer's immediate problem.


EnoughBS 12/4/2012 | 10:05:30 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas vindicator 2000 wrote:
"
The design could not have accomodated maintaining statistics on all connections. The FPGAs had no room for this and could not have been made to without a serious hardware redesign
"

These stats were not going to be kept in the FPGAs. They were going to be kept in the Network Processor and it had enough capacity (or designed to have enough capacity) to keep these stats.
vindicator2000 12/4/2012 | 10:05:30 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Enough BS Writes:

These stats were not going to be kept in the FPGAs. They were going to be kept in the Network Processor and it had enough capacity (or designed to have enough capacity) to keep these stats.
---------------------------------------
This means you could not over-subscribe the OC-48 ring. It follows, the 7X could not handle VBR.

Also:
The NP could handle 64,000k queues. That's roughly
16 DS3s UNIs worth of ATM, What are you going to do with the other 32 DS3s on the OC-48 ring?

The lack on ingress policing at the line cards was a huge mistake.


EnoughBS 12/4/2012 | 10:05:32 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas vindicator 2000 writes:

"By the way one of the problems MPLS solves is the very busy rounting tables required for ATM connections. MPLS means Multi-Protocol-Label-Switching, it IS intended to be used for routing within the box.

Get your facts straight."

If you say so. Please explain how the MPLS protocol (which maps the logical VPI/VCI or "shim" layer (in case of pure IP packets)label into a node's physical address/location) can be used to route a packet or cell from the network interface to a specific line catd and a port on that line card. You must know more about MPLS than everyone else in the world.

Also, the person who said Xalted Packet does not contain routing/switching info in it does not understand what self-routing and switching based on overhead bytes within the packet means. The same person doesn't seem to have read (or comprehend) my statement on Xalted supporting other vendor's nodes on the network side. Please read carefully.
inquisitivus 12/4/2012 | 10:05:32 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas vindicator2000 wrote:

The product vision is right on target.

The mandated Xalted Packet was a puzzle I could never figure out. It just got in the way of delivering the solution. None of the service providers cared about it. The engineers were tied up in knots trying to make it work.

It was a very strange situation .... knowing on the one hand that there was an easy path to deployment .... and on the other hand being forbidden to take it.

--------------------------------------------------
I would say then that the management was at fault for the failure of the company. This has been the case in many of the startups that I have seen go under. They all seemed to have good development strategy, and good engineers, but very short sighted management.
Again, thanks for your response.
I would still like to see some postings from management that is credible.
inquisitivus 12/4/2012 | 10:05:33 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas I also keep seeing the Xalted management getting ripped. Did they really turn a deaf ear to their experienced engineers and product managers when it came to suggestions on how to make the architecture work?
If that is the case, then they got what they deserved. If not, then what really happened?
I guess my question really is:
Was it the management that was incompitent, or the engineers?
vindicator2000 12/4/2012 | 10:05:33 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas The product vision is right on target.

The mandated Xalted Packet was a puzzle I could never figure out. It just got in the way of delivering the solution. None of the service providers cared about it. The engineers were tied up in knots trying to make it work.

It was a very strange situation .... knowing on the one hand that there was an easy path to deployment .... and on the other hand being forbidden to take it.

inquisitivus 12/4/2012 | 10:05:34 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas So far I have seen a lot of people posting the weeknesses of the Xalted product, but very few credible responses from anyone in defense. Seriously, why would this be. I thaught they had a very good story from what I had seen so far.
I mean a product that can push the access node out far enough to provide distance limited services is what is currently needed in the access market today.
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:05:34 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas EnoughBS wrote:

1. Xalted Packet is not a protocol! It's a name given to an internal packet format that is needed to self-route and switch packets through the internal multistage/multiplex architecture of the product. MPLS is a node to node (or node to network) external protocol that is used to optimize transfer of cells/packets within the nodes of a cell/packet based network. Anyone worth his salt (who has designed ATM switches) knows that some overhead bytes are required to self-route ATM cells or partial IP packets in a multistage/mutiplex internal architecture. To my knowledge no one has used MPLS or IP protocol to self-route ATM cells or partial IP packets within such a node. The fact that these overhead bytes allow other neat features to be implemented is a plus. Once you implement these overhead bytes you require ASICs or FPGA's to handle them. It has nothing to do with CBR/VBR traffic. Those are seperate issues and not to be mixed with Xalted Packets. To my knowledge Xalted's product will have no problem handling either of these traffic types.

2. Someone in these messages talked about the product not supporting other vendors equipment on the optical ring. The currently implemented ring is on the user side to support mutiple local or remote line shelves. I have never heard of any vendor supporting line shelves of different vendors on the user side ring. When Xalted supports network side ring, the system will be able to inter-operate with other vendors equipment (nodes)on that ring.

3. Someone also criticized the fact that traffic data on all connections is not being kept by the system. This is an access node and it is not necessary to keep CDRs (the next upstrean node would be required to do so, if needed). As to the reason why only data on few connections is kept is to save memory (design can easily acomodate all connections if a customer needs such a capability) and a primary reason this data is kept is to "study" this data for debugging and resolving any customer initiated discrepancies.

--------------------------------------------------
protocol

n 1: (computer science) rules determining the format and transmission of data [syn: communications protocol] 2: forms of ceremony and etiquette observed by diplomats and heads of state 3: code of correct conduct: "safety protocols"; "academic protocol"
Source: WordNet - 1.6, - 1997 Princeton University


--------------------------------------------------

protocol

A set of formal rules describing how to transmit data, especially across a network. Low level protocols define the electrical and physical standards to be observed, bit- and byte-ordering and the transmission and error detection and correction of the bit stream. High level protocols deal with the data formatting, including the syntax of messages, the terminal to computer dialogue, character sets, sequencing of messages etc.

1) So, What are you saying? That the Xalted packet did nothing but waste bytes in the data stream.
If it has anything to do with the routing of traffic, then it is a protocol.

2) So you are telling me that no vendor has ever developed an access box with a SONET interface to the network.

3) All access boxes I have come accross do keep statistics on connections through the box. With out line, section and path statistics, how would one know when a connection has problems?
vindicator2000 12/4/2012 | 10:05:35 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas The Defender Wrote:
Do I think we have a chance? Sure I do. Is it going to be tough? Hey that is what I like about it.
--------------------
If you like to make things tough on yourself the Xalted Packet was a masterpiece of execution.

vindicator2000 12/4/2012 | 10:05:35 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Enough BS write:

Once you implement these overhead bytes you require ASICs or FPGA's to handle them. It has nothing to do with CBR/VBR traffic

-----------------------------------------
True enough.
The problem is that you are now doomed to developing a network processor that can perform traffic management functions at wire speed on Xalted Packets. The FPGA development at Xalted could barely get the packets through at wire speed with only per-class policing and no shaping.
There were any number off the shelf ASICs that cost less than the FPGAs that could have been programmed to handle all of the required functions (drivers included from the manufacturer).

The product simply did not need a special packet or any special customer FPGAs. All of the wasted effort on this "grand scheme" killed the 7X. It wasted money, it wasted time and it caused packet conversions the could have been completely avoided (especially in the early TDM/AM only releases). The product was not delivered because it was ham-strung in the lab while the FPGA engineers frantically cooked up feeble incremental improvements to a switching engine that just could not handle the job.

Tough Break.

Remember, when Boeing goes out to build new plane they do NOT try to build the jet engines.

vindicator2000 12/4/2012 | 10:05:36 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Enough BS writes:

Someone also criticized the fact that traffic data on all connections is not being kept by the system. This is an access node and it is not necessary to keep CDRs (the next upstrean node would be required to do so, if needed). As to the reason why only data on few connections is kept is to save memory (design can easily acomodate all connections if a customer needs such a capability) and a primary reason this data is kept is to "study" this data for debugging and resolving any customer initiated discrepancies.

-------------------------

The design could not have accomodated maintaining statistics on all connections. The FPGAs had no room for this and could not have been made to without a serious hardware redesign.

The initial design simply failed to accomodate the required ingress traffic management functions it would need to be a serious high-reliability packet switch.

This failure was due excusively to the fact that the designers simlpy did not understand the technical details of what needed to be done.
Remember, this thing was designed by senior management. The technichians simply did what they could to get a brick airplane off the ground.
(and they failed).
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:05:36 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Ex Observer writes:

I wonder if Xalted ever considered buying an ATM stack or IP stack or did they think they could do a better job?

------------------------
We tried to get them to but the stack.
The prevailing wisdom was it coud be written for less. (This was and continues to be the wrong answer).

--------------------------------------------------
Can someone come up with a cost for cost analisys between buying and developing a home grown ATM stack?
TheChief 12/4/2012 | 10:05:37 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Thank you EnoughBS for showing everyone what Xalted management is really like. To say the Xalted Packet is not a protocol is like saying IP is just a packet definition and not a protocol. The Xalted Packet does not have information needed to perform policing and shaping. This was presented to management in the spring of last year; however, the VP of engineer prevent the engineers from informing the president. It's a very simple concept, when you can send or receive more data to a box than the conection can handle you must throw some things away. It's a good thing to keep all the data for the high dollar customer and trash the data for the low dollar customer. With Xalted Packets, you round robin who gets to send their data. This concept is one that Xalted management could not understand.
likesInFighting 12/4/2012 | 10:05:37 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas They didn't really think they could write an ATM stack that works for less than they could buy one did they?

Even if this was true, one has to consider the time it takes to write it, and the effort it takes keeping the protocol up to date with the changing standards.
vindicator2000 12/4/2012 | 10:05:37 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas The sad fact is the Xalted Packet brought nothing to the table but technological hurdles to be overcome. There never were any features that required it. The Xalted Packet could be used for any number of switching problems, but it provided no unique solution and did not solve any unsolved problems. It did however, launch a "pyramid building project" to attempt to come up with FPGA based network processors that could handle Xalted Packets.

It was such huge waste of time when all the customer really wanted was something that could effeciently handle TDM, IP, and ATM traffic in the same box for use in the outside plant. This could have been done with no wasted effort on sacred cow packet formats.

-----------------------------

Enough BS Writes:

1. Xalted Packet is not a protocol! It's a name given to an internal packet format that is needed to self-route and switch packets through the internal multistage/multiplex architecture of the product. MPLS is a node to node (or node to network) external protocol that is used to optimize transfer of cells/packets within the nodes of a cell/packet based network
-------------------------------------

By the way one of the problems MPLS solves is the very busy rounting tables required for ATM connections. MPLS means Multi-Protocol-Label-Switching, it IS intended to be used for routing within the box.

Get your facts straight.



likesInFighting 12/4/2012 | 10:05:37 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas I just started reading this string of messages and this is great. Keep bashing it out folks.

Is it me, or does everything EnoughBS said seem wrong?
vindicator2000 12/4/2012 | 10:05:37 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas
Ex Observer writes:

I wonder if Xalted ever considered buying an ATM stack or IP stack or did they think they could do a better job?

------------------------
We tried to get them to but the stack.
The prevailing wisdom was it coud be written for less. (This was and continues to be the wrong answer).
EnoughBS 12/4/2012 | 10:05:38 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas I have seen enough nonsense and BS being put out by so called experts in ATM and IP technnology and disgruntled ex-engineers and managers about Xalted Packets and other issues.

1. Xalted Packet is not a protocol! It's a name given to an internal packet format that is needed to self-route and switch packets through the internal multistage/multiplex architecture of the product. MPLS is a node to node (or node to network) external protocol that is used to optimize transfer of cells/packets within the nodes of a cell/packet based network. Anyone worth his salt (who has designed ATM switches) knows that some overhead bytes are required to self-route ATM cells or partial IP packets in a multistage/mutiplex internal architecture. To my knowledge no one has used MPLS or IP protocol to self-route ATM cells or partial IP packets within such a node. The fact that these overhead bytes allow other neat features to be implemented is a plus. Once you implement these overhead bytes you require ASICs or FPGA's to handle them. It has nothing to do with CBR/VBR traffic. Those are seperate issues and not to be mixed with Xalted Packets. To my knowledge Xalted's product will have no problem handling either of these traffic types.

2. Someone in these messages talked about the product not supporting other vendors equipment on the optical ring. The currently implemented ring is on the user side to support mutiple local or remote line shelves. I have never heard of any vendor supporting line shelves of different vendors on the user side ring. When Xalted supports network side ring, the system will be able to inter-operate with other vendors equipment (nodes)on that ring.

3. Someone also criticized the fact that traffic data on all connections is not being kept by the system. This is an access node and it is not necessary to keep CDRs (the next upstrean node would be required to do so, if needed). As to the reason why only data on few connections is kept is to save memory (design can easily acomodate all connections if a customer needs such a capability) and a primary reason this data is kept is to "study" this data for debugging and resolving any customer initiated discrepancies.

exObserver 12/4/2012 | 10:05:38 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas
Any ATM protocol (NOTE protocol) stack will self route ATM cells in any internal architecture. They key is to buy an ATM stack from an ATM stack vendor, not design one yourself.

I wonder if Xalted ever considered buying an ATM stack or IP stack or did they think they could do a better job?

LightOfDay 12/4/2012 | 10:05:38 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas TheDefender said :
The worst thing that could happen to a startup is to have products ready to ship with no customers clamoring for it. Take Celion and Mahi for example.

-----------------------------------------------

I think the worst thing that could happen to a startup is to have a product that would never be
ready to ship, have no customers even in a decent market because you lied to them, and then be forced into bankrupcy because of the above.

To summarize :

Mahi : Just got $75 million.

Xalted : Just got Chapter 11.

You decide.
exObserver 12/4/2012 | 10:05:41 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Sounds like politics that existed in several companies I have worked for.

Politics is one thing, but hiding your head in the sand is another.

WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:05:41 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Very well put...
This hits the nail on the head.
vindicator2000 12/4/2012 | 10:05:42 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Greetings;

I was an employee of Xalted Networks.
So many people have accused me of contributing to this posting I have decided to weigh in.

Here are some simple facts.

1) Most of the senior management had a fairly good working knowledge of the concepts required to develop the 7X.

2) None of the senior management understood the complexities of traffic management (policing and shaping) to the level of competence required to design the product. However, it was the senior management that designed the product.

4) The President developed the Xalted Packet to allow for a protocol independent frame to route ATM / IP / whatever through the system. The President came up with this idea with no knowledge that MPLS existed.

6) MPLS would have done the job just fine. But even that was not necessary. Simple ATM would have also handled the problem just fine.

7) The product languished in the lab for over a year while the FPGA engineers toyed with developing custom logic to route Xalted Packets. There were off the shelf solutions that would have worked, and would have cost less than the FPGAs. Some of us were eventually able to convince the CTO that the Architecture of the network processing engine being designed for the Xalted packet would never work for VBR traffic. He saw the light an agreed with us. (The President found out this dirty little secret 1 year later).

9) The president of the company wanted the Xalted packet to use as a marketing tool. He thought the VCs would find value in a "secret sauce" that was exclusively Xalted.

However, the first time is was in a presentation that exposed the Xalted Packet to a customer I saw the look of confused disbelief on their faces. During my customer presentation, I side-stepped the issue, but if confronted I would state the Xalted Packet was essentially an MPLS frame.

10) In answer to willywilson's question about bandwidth; The 7X was to be an access product. It would NOT typically be deployed on a DWDM ring. It was more a "fiber in the loop" solution. Bandwidth efficiency was important. The 7X did have some MTU/MDU applications as well.

Summary:
The Xalted Packet was the President's vision of the core of what the product should be. He did, in fact, dream it up with no prior knowledge of MPLS. This proves he is a reasonably sharp fellow for having independently come up with a very similar solution. However, the cost of the Xalted Packet was enormous. It was the single most damning problem we had. Versions of the FPGAs were in development for over 12 months without every achieving the ability to pass even CBR traffic with any volume. The proprietary nature of the Xalted Packet required custom FPGA development. The custom FPGA development killed the 7X.

Concerning the fired employee. About 1 year before the President found out that the traffic engines being designed for Xalted Packets would never handle VBR, a few of us tried to set up a meeting with the President. This soon-to-be-fired employee had the bad taste of co-authoring a memo outlining some recommendations for design changes to the 7X. The President, VP of Engineering, and his Director were not pleased that he chose to do this. The VP of sales encouraged the President to attend the meeting but he reused to do so. Finally, one year later I told the President (for the 100th time) that our FPGAs would never be able to handle VBR traffic. (I could get away with this because I did not report to the VP of engineering). The VP of Engineering disagreed with me. We called in his biggest defender (the Director of Systems Engineering), who finally found the wisdom and guts to stand up and agree with me. The dirty little lie about the Xalted Packet and the enormous failed attempt to make it work had finally come home to roost.

There were very few of us who were willing to discuss the technical issues surrounding the problems brought on by the Xalted Packet. Most were afraid of being fired. (After having seen what happened to one of their own). The Xalted Packet was a Sacred Cow and was not to be maligned in any way, (maybe that' why its going to India).

PS. For those of you who wanted me to post ..... here it is.

LightOfDay 12/4/2012 | 10:05:43 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas PURPLE_HAZE says :

WhiteKnight why don't you stop saying this guy that got fired and just say I? You are far too bitter to not be the guy. So Brad get over it, you got what you wanted. You might have been right but I still think you need to work the people skills. As the name calling shows us.

--------------------------------------------
Well I see you Xalted defenders ( ie Mngmt ),
haven't changed. You still think that God has shown you the correct path, and filled you with divine knowledge, so that you know the answer.

I don't know who this WhiteKnight character is, but he isn't Brad.

I AM!.

Had you and your management not been so
afraid of me and the truth about your product,
maybe you would have understood that I have too
much integrity, to resort to name calling. All I
ever did was try to match what was being marketed,
with what was being built, so that when we sold
it, it did what we had told the customer.

In my experience, only people that have a hidden
agenda, are afraid of the "LightOfDay"

Brad
b4uthink 12/4/2012 | 10:05:43 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas The Defender wrote:

Xalted packet did not cause many delays in the product development.

----------------------------------------------
My sources say this is not true.
Most of the delays in the project were due to custom FPGA work. Off-the-shelf ASICs could have done the job.

-----------------------------------------------
This will be my last posting.
The defender is not being honest and deserves no more of my time.

exObserver 12/4/2012 | 10:05:44 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas From Xalted's web page they are in the access market, so overhead can be a big deal.

exObserver 12/4/2012 | 10:05:44 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas We have our own private OC48 ring to push Xalted packets through. Anything we put out on the network is ATM. Many of the initial applications that we looked at did not even require traffic going out to the network.

-------------------------------------------------

I don't know Xalted's product, but have to ask the question, how and why could you have a private ring. The whole idea of SONET is interoperability. Wouldn't a private ring have the same requirements as a public one?

And doesn't a private ring preclude Xalted from getting into existing rings?
gardner 12/4/2012 | 10:05:48 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Speaking of startups . . .
Does anyone know how the Iris Labs thing came out? I heard that some people had trouble recovering their 401k money that they had rolled over when the 3 companies finally collapsed. Is that true?

More information on the whereabouts of Baghdasarian and Zadikian would also be interesting.

Hint to LR Staff: An in depth investigative article starting with the Monterrey buyout and following the money through the collapse of Iris and its sister companies would make fascinating reading.
TheChief 12/4/2012 | 10:05:49 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas PURPLE_HAZE you guessed wrong on the Whiteknight. If the Xalted packet was so great, why was the definition of the packet changing while the hardware and software was being devoloped? At on time Xalted had some of the most experienced and talented set of Systems and Software engineers that I have every worked with. Where they fell short was in the hardware and management. They then replaced the experienced software engineers with inexperience H1B individuals. The biggest argument I heard for keeping the Xalted packet was because they were trying to patent it. If Xalted survies it will be inspite of their bad management.
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:05:51 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas WhiteKnight why don't you stop saying this guy that got fired and just say I? You are far too bitter to not be the guy. So Brad get over it, you got what you wanted. You might have been right but I still think you need to work the people skills. As the name calling shows us.
--------------------------------------------------
I only made reference to him one time. Bitter? I am sorry if you can't handle the truth due to some deep seeded guilt over unjustly firing a person. "Brad" you say, I think not. So, let me get this straight, when you make unfounded attacks on people it is considered right and just, but, when a person uses accurate descriptive wording in making statements about the Xalted management it then becomes "lack of people skills"? I don't see the logic in that. Yet another example of the pompous attitude.
PURPLE_HAZE 12/4/2012 | 10:05:51 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas WhiteKnight why don't you stop saying this guy that got fired and just say I? You are far too bitter to not be the guy. So Brad get over it, you got what you wanted. You might have been right but I still think you need to work the people skills. As the name calling shows us.
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:05:51 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Hey Mark, give it up, you are not even a challenge.
st0 12/4/2012 | 10:05:51 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas IL said:
"I thought we were talking about blue LEDs in Telecom! Don't you think
so!"
---------
fully aware of that...did you missed the last sentence in the para?
"On the other hand it
appears that a window of opportunity exists for frequency doubled and
upconversion sources."!!!
I rest of my case...

st
jamesbond 12/4/2012 | 10:05:52 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas
The worst thing that could happen to a startup is to have products ready to ship with no customers clamoring for it. Take Celion and Mahi for example.

------------------

Who told you Mahi has shippable product?
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:05:52 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas We have our own private OC48 ring to push Xalted packets through. Anything we put out on the network is ATM. Many of the initial applications that we looked at did not even require traffic going out to the network.
--------------------------------------------------
rebut:

Without going out to the network, what use would your product be?
No requests, no response.
It must just sit there and look dumb. Must have been a clone of the management.
--------------------------------------------------

Xalted packet did not cause many delays in the product development. As with any complex product, things take a certain amount of time to develop, no matter how ambitious or aggressive the plans are. As of now, we have passed traffic through every board type that we claimed to have ready for Release 1. We were working through final integration and system test when money from the previous round ran out.

--------------------------------------------------
rebut:

You say not many, as I remember the xhausted packet was the solid wall that put you where you are now, chapter 11.
Oh yeah, so you finally got the cards to boot?
--------------------------------------------------

We have the backing of many of the original investors, though on a smaller scale. We are confident that we will turn this ship around. Even if we had the product ready to ship yesterday, how many CLECs or RBOCs are eager to spend money right now? Get real.. The worst thing that could happen to a startup is to have products ready to ship with no customers clamoring for it. Take Celion and Mahi for example.

--------------------------------------------------
rebut:

What, enough backing to buy you one more cup of that gormet frufru coffee?
That's right, you did blow the schedule for the delivery of the product to Puerto Rico.
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:05:52 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas There has been no defenders because we have been busy working on a plan to make things happen on a reduced budget... unlike some of the bashers here.
--------------------------------------------------
Rebut:

Yes, I understand that you have ruined many American citizens in the name of your holy war against the United States of America.
What you really mean is at the expense of the employees(American citizens, that you plan to leave out in the cold) that you have been stringing along, by making empty promises of IOU's, knowing good and well that you were just using them to transfer the knowledge base to yet another 3rd world country. Some would claim that you are no different than the people that supported and even funded the terrorist acts of 9/11.

--------------------------------------------------

People who call others pompous asses need to go back home and look in their mirrors. Pompous is the one who can not and will not listen to counter arguments because he thinks he knows it all.
--------------------------------------------------
Rebut:

pompous
SYLLABICATION: pom-+pous
PRONUNCIATION: AUDIO: pmps KEY
ADJECTIVE: 1. Characterized by excessive self-esteem or exaggerated dignity; pretentious: pompous officials who enjoy giving orders.
2. Full of high-sounding phrases; bombastic: a pompous proclamation.
3. Chracterized by pomp or stately display; ceremonious: a pompous occasion.
ETYMOLOGY: Middle English, from Old French pompeux, from Late Latin pompsus, from Latin pompa, pomp. See pomp.
OTHER FORMS: pom-+posi-+ty (-ps-t) , pompous-+ness (-ps-ns) G泅NOUN
pompous-+ly G泅ADVERB

This, from what I saw when I was at Xalted Networks, is a very accurate description of the management. When they were enlightened to the fact that they had misconceptions of the way the network operates, they were very quick to crucify the bearer of the news. If that is not pomp, then what would you call it?

First of all I do look in the mirror every day, and the one thing I don't have to worry about is when I have to answer to God for my actions, because I have never used the cover of God in vain like the people of Xalted aka Sons of Satan Inc.

--------------------------------------------------
Was Xalted packet a bad idea?
--------------------------------------------------
Rebut:

I think the answer is obvious to anyone with any common sense and a minute amount of knowledge of telecom industry standards. But to the very dense out there, the answer is, absolutely, it was a bad idea.

--------------------------------------------------
If you don't know the architecture and the feature set 7X is supposed to support down the road (not just in Release 1), you will understand that we had very little choice.
--------------------------------------------------
Rebut:

I guess you may be right, if one does not know the facts of a situation, then it would make sense that one would understand the problem, by Xalted mgt. logic as was stated above.

--------------------------------------------------
Does it have an overhead? Sure. But you pay a price to consolidate multiple boxes into one. You gain on the cost of ownership when it goes down dramatically. I can't say anything more now but when we come out of the woodworks, you can count on me to explain more.

--------------------------------------------------
Rebut:

And a lot of overhead it did have!
Consolidate multiple boxes into one? That is an outright lie, Do you intend to try to fool someone into thinking that the concentrator shelf and the line shelf are one in the same?

My question is:
How are you going to come out of the woodworks when you are in chapter 11. It is my understanding that the current thaught of the president is that he thinks that the bankruptcy court judge is going to allow him to transport the assetts out of this country while there are still claims gainst the corp. he must be smoking crack, no judge will allow that to happen.
--------------------------------------------------

Going to India, what's so wrong with that? If big companies can do it to penetrate Asian markets and to lower their operating costs, why can't a small company do it? Anyone who thinks you can raise a ton of money to burn quickly here is dreaming, especially in the current VC market. You have seen the dotcom bubble burst, you are watching the telecom bubble bursting. Wait till you see the VC bubble burst.

--------------------------------------------------
Rebut:

Hey, if you don't mind living in a third world country, more power to you.
Apparently you don't understand why the big companies did that. FYI - They did that only to disband the unions that were of no use to anyone, especially the union members. the only they could be broken was to move the manufacturing operations out of the country.
If the management at Xalted had been responsible with the funds, there would have been plenty of money to make it to market. But, they insisted on being extravagent in their lifestyles and ignorant in their abilities to hire the right people at the right time, and keep them. Instead they made sure they got rid of the only people that could have made them successful.
The VC bubble will never burst, they are the ones with the money. what you apparently don't understand is that they use little piss ant operations like Xalted as a crap shoot. If it goes, fine if it doesn't, it's just a tax write off.
--------------------------------------------------

The H1B engineers we had (and we still have them in tact in our overseas site) worked their ass off when some of the others were bashing the management.
--------------------------------------------------
rebut:
The inexperienced must work very hard to produce a fraction of the work that the experienced can produce. What I saw when I was there was that they would come in at ~10:30 am. work till 12:00 take lunch till 1:30 then work just long enough in the evening to get the free meal on Xalted.
I can't blame them for that though, since rumor had it that one of the upper managers was raping them with forced kickbacks under the table to keep their jobs.

--------------------------------------------------
Surely the management did make some mistakes. Like hiring some morons who thought they knew it all. We have rectified that now. Unfortunately, we had to let go of some of the best people we had also. That is the sad state of affairs in the telecom market today.

--------------------------------------------------
rebut:

That's to say the least, they made a whole lot of mistakes. As for the "morons";

mo-+ron Pronunciation Key (m+n, mr-)
n.
A stupid person; a dolt.
Psychology. A person of mild mental retardation having a mental age of from 7 to 12 years and generally having communication and social skills enabling some degree of academic or vocational education. The term belongs to a classification system no longer in use and is now considered offensive.
[From Greek mron, neuter of mros, stupid, foolish.]

I think it would serve you well to use a dictionary for the definition of terms that you apparently don't understand.
--------------------------------------------------

Chapter 11 isn't the worst thing that can happen to you, especially when you are living in a state that is so skewed towards the landlord who wants to hold the company hostage to his demands.
--------------------------------------------------
rebut:
You apparently signed a contract to lease the space. If you signed a contract that you did not agree with, then shame on you, especially with the gaggle of attorneys you had on retainer.
Oh, I forgot, they were too busy trying to justify the patent on the UPSR standards.
--------------------------------------------------
Texas has some of the worst lease clauses you can imagine, most of which are outlawed in other states.
--------------------------------------------------
rebut:
You should have been aware of the lease clauses before you signed on the dotted line.
Maybe Xalted should have been outlawed in the state of Texas. As I remember, they tried to hold their employees hostage with an illegal non-compete contract brought in after the fact.

--------------------------------------------------
Chapter 11 doesn't mean we are going under. We are reorganizing and renegotiating with the creditors to come out of some bad debt. Don't tell me that no one has ever come out of Chapter 11 successfully.
--------------------------------------------------
rebut:
What, does this mean that you are intending to further screw the loyal employees that put in free time with the promise of future pay?

--------------------------------------------------
Do I think we have a chance? Sure I do. Is it going to be tough? Hey that is what I like about it. Do I think we will succeed? If not, I wouldn't still be here. Now, if you will excuse me, I have work to do. And so do some of the bashers here, if they are still employed elsewhere (or for that matter, even if not, to look for other jobs!!).

--------------------------------------------------
rebut:

You may have deluded yourself into a false sense of security, which wouldn't surprise me since you seem to be of an easily deluded mind, anyway.

It will be tougher than you thought, especially since you have alienated yourselves from the personnel that could make the product work.

Sure you would still be there, you have no where else to go, for obvious reasons.

--------------------------------------------------
inlight 12/4/2012 | 10:05:54 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas The Defender wrote:
Going to India, what's so wrong with that? If big companies can do it to penetrate Asian markets and to lower their operating costs, why can't a small company do it? Anyone who thinks you can raise a ton of money to burn quickly here is dreaming, especially in the current VC market. You have seen the dotcom bubble burst, you are watching the telecom bubble bursting. Wait till you see the VC bubble burst.

The H1B engineers we had (and we still have them in tact in our overseas site) worked their ass off when some of the others were bashing the management. Surely the management did make some mistakes. Like hiring some morons who thought they knew it all. We have rectified that now. Unfortunately, we had to let go of some of the best people we had also. That is the sad state of affairs in the telecom market today.
-------------

There is nothing wrong in moving some development work to any country where you get capable engineers who can work for lower cost. As you rightly said, even big companies are doing it, especially during this difficult time.

But I can not accept the other part of your argument that all the other people you employed in US were only bashing. Don't you think that is too much of a generalization?

Any how I did not work for your company, so I do not know about the people you employed in US. Even if we assume that they are all morons, I think, it reflects on your management's hiring/interviewing skils.

How ever, I do wish you goodluck in your endeavor, and appreciate if you post some white papers about xalted pakets on yourwebsites.

IL
TheDefender 12/4/2012 | 10:05:54 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas I said that many of the initial applications were going to be hairpin type connections though we do support PTP connections. On the network side consider having some the STS12s hairpinned and the others out to the network. We support ADSL, DS1 (channelized DS0s as well as intact DS1), DS3 TDM (channelized 3/1/0 as well as intact) and DS3 UNI for release 1.
inlight 12/4/2012 | 10:05:55 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas The defnder wrote:
We have our own private OC48 ring to push Xalted packets through. Anything we put out on the network is ATM. Many of the initial applications that we looked at did not even require traffic going out to the network.

I am trying to understand the above statement. Are you saying that the applications you were considering, is all "hairpinning" alone, with no packets going out to the network?

Could you please elaborate?

IL
inlight 12/4/2012 | 10:05:55 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas st:

I thought we were talking about blue LEDs in Telecom! Don't you think so!

IL
willywilson 12/4/2012 | 10:05:56 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas I wonder whether Xalted packet overhead is much of an issue to carriers. Aren't those boxes designed to be stuck onto DWDM rings? If so, would anyone really care about overhead? We all know that bandwidth is essentially free in the long-haul, but aren't we getting there in the metro and feeder networks, too?

I could imagine other reasons why their boxes wouldn't fly, but overhead strikes me as a non-issue. Someone tell me why that's wrong.
TheDefender 12/4/2012 | 10:05:57 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas We have our own private OC48 ring to push Xalted packets through. Anything we put out on the network is ATM. Many of the initial applications that we looked at did not even require traffic going out to the network.

Xalted packet did not cause many delays in the product development. As with any complex product, things take a certain amount of time to develop, no matter how ambitious or aggressive the plans are. As of now, we have passed traffic through every board type that we claimed to have ready for Release 1. We were working through final integration and system test when money from the previous round ran out.

We have the backing of many of the original investors, though on a smaller scale. We are confident that we will turn this ship around. Even if we had the product ready to ship yesterday, how many CLECs or RBOCs are eager to spend money right now? Get real.. The worst thing that could happen to a startup is to have products ready to ship with no customers clamoring for it. Take Celion and Mahi for example.
exObserver 12/4/2012 | 10:05:59 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas 2) The Architecture of the 7X was not that unconventional. (If the PP presentation I saw was accurate). In fact it looked a lot like a Lite Span.

-----------------------------------------------

After looking at the management bios on the Xalted web page, it looks like virtually all of them came from DSC. If the 7X looks a lot like a lite span, and knowing DSC's past history concerning lawsuits, don't you think DSC (now Alcatel) would sue the pants of Xalted for patent violations if the 7X ever gets out into the market?

I am frankly suprised that DSC (Alcatel) did not file a lawsuit against Xalted just because they had so many ex employees.


b4uthink 12/4/2012 | 10:05:59 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas After looking at the management bios on the Xalted web page, it looks like virtually all of them came from DSC. If the 7X looks a lot like a lite span, and knowing DSC's past history concerning lawsuits, don't you think DSC (now Alcatel) would sue the pants of Xalted for patent violations if the 7X ever gets out into the market?

-----------------------------------------------
It looked superficially like a Lite Span.
It had a Central Office Terminal and Remote Terminals.

I think the point I'm making is that the "architecture" does not cry out the need for some proprietary protocol. Infact the 7X's hardware architecture looked pretty conventional.
exObserver 12/4/2012 | 10:06:00 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Hey since I never worked with or dealt with Xalted, I am curious what does the Xalted Packet do that MPLS doesn't.

There is a whole lot more to a protocol that doing something to fix a preceived problem. Interoperability and standards based definitions are the main issue. Are there any other companies that plan on using the Xalted Packet? I highly doubt it.

One of the biggest problems in high technology is preceived problems. Someone thinks they are so clever, and the problem they are encountering is so unique that no one else has encountered it (don't you think Cisco, Nortel, or any other big telecom firms have eyes on what Xalted is doing?, even if they do not now when there is a market they will). New protocols like RPR start at big companies becuase they have the customer base, and others are forced to interopperate. I doubt Cisco or any other company will be forced to interoperate with Xalted's protocol.

I hope Xalted survives. I hate to see any company fail. Remember work smarter not harder.

I don't think I have heard of any startup successfully moving things to India and succeeding. This is purely a hunch, but Xalted probably has some senior management who are Indian, and they are moving the software and other operations there to skim money off the top. That is the Indian way, and if someone does not beleive that they have never done any business in India or been there. The management wins either way, if they fail they would have skimmed enough money off the top to survive for a while, and if Xalted succeeds they make money both ways.

Good luck and may God bless America and everthing she stands for. I am sure most everyone is rooting for all companies to survive in these tough times.


b4uthink 12/4/2012 | 10:06:00 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas I guess in Xalted's case, the idea of God box was adopted in more ways than one ... Anyway, I'm sure you know that the RBOCs tend not to like these things.
----------------------------------------------
This is a very good point willywilson.
It would have been interesting to see how these guys were pitching the product to their customers.
b4uthink 12/4/2012 | 10:06:00 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Was Xalted packet a bad idea? If you don't know the architecture and the feature set 7X is supposed to support down the road (not just in Release 1), you will understand that we had very little choice.
-------------------------------------------
It is easy to understand why you might think there was little choice. This would be especuially true if you are unfamiliar with MPLS or Fast ATM. I still have read nothing that would lead me to believe MPLS could not do the job.

1) MPLS was designed to handle some pretty complex traffic management challenges.

2) The Architecture of the 7X was not that unconventional. (If the PP presentation I saw was accurate). In fact it looked a lot like a Lite Span.
willywilson 12/4/2012 | 10:06:01 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Was Xalted packet a bad idea? If you don't know the architecture and the feature set 7X is supposed to support down the road (not just in Release 1), you will understand that we had very little choice. Does it have an overhead? Sure. But you pay a price to consolidate multiple boxes into one. You gain on the cost of ownership when it goes down dramatically. I can't say anything more now but when we come out of the woodworks, you can count on me to explain more.

------------

I guess in Xalted's case, the idea of God box was adopted in more ways than one ... Anyway, I'm sure you know that the RBOCs tend not to like these things.
b4uthink 12/4/2012 | 10:06:01 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Pompous is the one who can not and will not listen to counter arguments because he thinks he knows it all.

------------------------------------------------
It seems to me, from what I have seen here, that senior management was the group that displayed the pompous attitude with the most vigor.

There has been nothing posted here that would lead me to believe that MPLS could not have done the job. Clearly the inventors of the Xalted Packet had no idea MPLS already existed. This is not surprising because these guys have a telecom background.

1) What is surprising is that having been enlightened to its existence, senior management apparently refused to move towards a standards based solution.

2) The fact that the Xalted Packet apparently survived indicates that Senior management had no regard for industry standards.

3) The above two points tend to support the assertion that is was senior management, arguing against established industry practice, that were displaying a pompous "know-it-all" attitude.

This is such a pity. The trick of a box like the 7X would have been how it consolidated the management of the different overlay networks and reduced inventory. Had they stuck with off-the-shelf solutions they might have made it.
TheDefender 12/4/2012 | 10:06:01 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas There has been no defenders because we have been busy working on a plan to make things happen on a reduced budget... unlike some of the bashers here.

People who call others pompous asses need to go back home and look in their mirrors. Pompous is the one who can not and will not listen to counter arguments because he thinks he knows it all.

Was Xalted packet a bad idea? If you don't know the architecture and the feature set 7X is supposed to support down the road (not just in Release 1), you will understand that we had very little choice. Does it have an overhead? Sure. But you pay a price to consolidate multiple boxes into one. You gain on the cost of ownership when it goes down dramatically. I can't say anything more now but when we come out of the woodworks, you can count on me to explain more.

Going to India, what's so wrong with that? If big companies can do it to penetrate Asian markets and to lower their operating costs, why can't a small company do it? Anyone who thinks you can raise a ton of money to burn quickly here is dreaming, especially in the current VC market. You have seen the dotcom bubble burst, you are watching the telecom bubble bursting. Wait till you see the VC bubble burst.

The H1B engineers we had (and we still have them in tact in our overseas site) worked their ass off when some of the others were bashing the management. Surely the management did make some mistakes. Like hiring some morons who thought they knew it all. We have rectified that now. Unfortunately, we had to let go of some of the best people we had also. That is the sad state of affairs in the telecom market today.

Chapter 11 isn't the worst thing that can happen to you, especially when you are living in a state that is so skewed towards the landlord who wants to hold the company hostage to his demands. Texas has some of the worst lease clauses you can imagine, most of which are outlawed in other states. Chapter 11 doesn't mean we are going under. We are reorganizing and renegotiating with the creditors to come out of some bad debt. Don't tell me that no one has ever come out of Chapter 11 successfully.

Do I think we have a chance? Sure I do. Is it going to be tough? Hey that is what I like about it. Do I think we will succeed? If not, I wouldn't still be here. Now, if you will excuse me, I have work to do. And so do some of the bashers here, if they are still employed elsewhere (or for that matter, even if not, to look for other jobs!!).
ext88 12/4/2012 | 10:06:03 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas
I'm hearing from people that Force10 cut about 20% of their workforce today and that they might be having trouble getting funding. Has anyone heard about this?

From what I have read on these boards, it sounds like the work environment is pretty lousy at Force10 and that many engineers want to leave. Can anyone confirm this?
st0 12/4/2012 | 10:06:05 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas inlight said:
"Rumour is that they actually wanted trendy neon signs just like sign
board instead of those "old fashined" LEDs...:)"
--------------
hay in-light, I guess something is block the light not allow you to see the potential of short wavelength LED. The following para. is no Rumour:

... the principal markets for blue and green sources were clearly
identified. These markets are data storage, biotechnology and medicine, printing (electronic
imaging), displays, semiconductor testing and process control, and scientific (research and
development laboratories). It seemed clear that in the long run semiconductor lasers and LEDs
will play an important role, if not the dominant role in most of these markets. On the other hand it
appears that a window of opportunity exists for frequency doubled and upconversion sources. "

gee...I guess you are temperary "out of light"..;-) Need some Blue or Green to enlighten up a bit...

st (I am not a Xalteder and never dealt with them...don't know any of Xalted stuff either. Just someone see a bit of RGBP light +IR)
papabear 12/4/2012 | 10:06:06 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas I thought SBC was mainly using Alcatel's DSLAM equipment
inlight 12/4/2012 | 10:06:08 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Rumour is that they actually wanted trendy neon signs just like sign board instead of those "old fashined" LEDs...:)
simontemplar 12/4/2012 | 10:06:09 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Hey!

Instead of blue why didn't they consider plaid or clear?

ST
willywilson 12/4/2012 | 10:06:09 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas What about Louisiana?

--------

At least they have alligators, better food and some amazing personal contortion artists who charge by the hour in New Orleans.
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:06:14 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas At Xalted, the only winners there were the patent attorneys, they did a good job of feeding on the greed of the management and nievety of the management.
exObserver 12/4/2012 | 10:06:15 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas without input from inside xalted.

Guess I will have to play somewhere else.

Good luck to all the laid off people from Xalted Networks, and White Rock Networks.

jamesbond 12/4/2012 | 10:06:15 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas I have lived my life according to the following maxim: "No matter how bad it ever gets, Never Texas."

-----------

What about Louisiana?
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:06:15 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas without input from inside xalted.

Guess I will have to play somewhere else.

Good luck to all the laid off people from Xalted Networks, and White Rock Networks.

----------------

I guess when the going gets tough the week run with tucked tails. It has been very apparent that there must not have been much intellegence at Xalted, due to the lack of postings from the core.
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:06:16 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas The reason there are no defenders in here is that the landlord had locked them out of the building for non-payment of the rent, then shutdown all of the systems, so they would not have such a high electric bill.
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:06:17 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas The founders of Xalted will go to heaven and have 70 virgins designing their protocol for them.

------------

No, just 69, because a ahrlot slipped in unnoticed.
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:06:17 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas This is what happens when no one from Xalted will post, looks like most of the posters are laid off telecom workers with nother better to do than drink beer and post things.

I guess the Xalted management goes by the philosphy "When I am quiet people think I am stupid, and when I talk it removes any doubt".
----------------


Jimi played left handed, upside down, and did a lot of drugs. Are you a lot like Jimi and that's the reason you believe as you do.

-------------------

I beleive this proves the above statement.
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:06:17 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas An insider told me that the president spent many laboring hours, even days, but could have been months coming up with the exact shade of blue for a cute little kick board(as for swimming) that hung proudly above the receptionist desk. I wonder if that might be up for bid due to the bankruptcy, if so, I could use a good kick board.
exObserver 12/4/2012 | 10:06:17 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas
The founders of Xalted will go to heaven and have 70 virgins designing their protocol for them.

WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:06:18 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Xalted employees are not allowed to look at pornography at home or at work

----------

And they thought they'd be enabling the Internet, huh? Without porn ... oh forget it.

----------------

The whole purpose of the 7x was a ploy to get enough of into the network that they could seek out and destroy all packets that contain anything related to porn.
willywilson 12/4/2012 | 10:06:18 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Xalted employees are not allowed to look at pornography at home or at work

----------

And they thought they'd be enabling the Internet, huh? Without porn ... oh forget it.
TheChief 12/4/2012 | 10:06:18 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Jimi played left handed, upside down, and did a lot of drugs. Are you a lot like Jimi and that's the reason you believe as you do.
willywilson 12/4/2012 | 10:06:18 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas The whole purpose of the 7x was a ploy to get enough of into the network that they could seek out and destroy all packets that contain anything related to porn.

---------

Well then no wonder no one wanted to buy their stuff.
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:06:19 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Ok.

RED means OOS or alarm.
GREEN means IS or No-Alarm

What the heck does blue me

--------------------------------------------------

It means I just puked on myself, and I need medical help.
exObserver 12/4/2012 | 10:06:19 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Ok.

RED means OOS or alarm.
GREEN means IS or No-Alarm

What the heck does blue me

---------------------------------------------

blue means the card is sensing unholy data from the packets it is processing

flashing blue means the unholy packets are being reviewed by the system since Xalted employees are not allowed to look at pornography at home or at work
b4uthink 12/4/2012 | 10:06:20 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Ok.

RED means OOS or alarm.
GREEN means IS or No-Alarm

What the heck does blue me
TheChief 12/4/2012 | 10:06:20 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Was the 7X going to provide CDRs?
If so, for what servies?

-------------------------------------------------

It was the vision of the president that the 7X was going to do everything for everybody. Even if they didn't know what the existing products were installed in their customers buildings.
obkenobi 12/4/2012 | 10:06:20 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas "The Stinger couldn't do that. I think there was a pretty sever penalty for equipping DSL on the Stinger. (They are very vague on this point in their product literature)"

There's nothing wrong with Stinger. It's not defunct, And It's a DSLAM. Matter of fact the #2 selling DSLAM for ADSL, #1 for SDSL- So there isn't any penalty for equipping DSL. You may mean voice, in which case, there isn't a penalty either. It would be VoATM, or VoIP.

I think you are maybe confusing it with Anymedia.
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:06:20 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas When the software manager and architect declare that they are only going to keep billing statics on a small subset of the connections, one must question their compentance.
-------------------------------------------
Was the 7X going to provide CDRs?
If so, for what servies?


How could they, they can't even spell CDR.
willywilson 12/4/2012 | 10:06:21 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas You don't happen to be a transplanted "yankee" in Texas do you?

----------

I have lived my life according to the following maxim: "No matter how bad it ever gets, Never Texas."
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:06:21 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas I think Nishan Switch also has blue led's.

--------------------------------------------------

Well, there you go, then Xalted isn't the only misled company.
b4uthink 12/4/2012 | 10:06:21 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas When the software manager and architect declare that they are only going to keep billing statics on a small subset of the connections, one must question their compentance.
-------------------------------------------
Was the 7X going to provide CDRs?
If so, for what servies?
jamesbond 12/4/2012 | 10:06:22 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas I think Nishan Switch also has blue led's.
gardner 12/4/2012 | 10:06:22 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas
Not to mention the right of people to be left the hell alone with regard to religion. Goddamn Bible-thumpers don't seem to understand that they'rejust as fanatical as the people who bombed the World Trade Center.


You are a man after my own heart Willy! I saw you say you were a Democrat. You are annoyed by Evangelical zealots who think that religious freedom protects only their religion and you have a good head on your shoulders. You don't happen to be a transplanted "yankee" in Texas do you? (Like me?). ;-)
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:06:23 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas It just occured to me that there is no one posting to this message board that has been able to explain why the Xalted Packet was such a good idea.(Except for some vague hand waving about "more features" .... however undefined they may be).

However, some of you have been able to confirm that there was some "action" taken to get rid of it. That action failed. At least one person got fired over it. The system encountered numerous development problems associated with the Xalted Packet. Xalted ran out of money before they could make it work.

Again one has to wonder what would have happened if they had not tried to create a new protocol.

--------------------------------------------------

I am sure that they would have figured out some other way to screw it up and sink the ship. Yet another example of how persistence pays off.
TheChief 12/4/2012 | 10:06:23 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Again one has to wonder what would have happened if they had not tried to create a new protocol.

-------------------------------------------------

It would have helped to hire hardware and software engineers who had worked with some of the new technoglies, SONET, ATM, Ethernet, TCP/IP, DSL. When the software manager and architect declare that they are only going to keep billing statics on a small subset of the connections, one must question their compentance.
b4uthink 12/4/2012 | 10:06:24 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas It just occured to me that there is no one posting to this message board that has been able to explain why the Xalted Packet was such a good idea.(Except for some vague hand waving about "more features" .... however undefined they may be).

However, some of you have been able to confirm that there was some "action" taken to get rid of it. That action failed. At least one person got fired over it. The system encountered numerous development problems associated with the Xalted Packet. Xalted ran out of money before they could make it work.

Again one has to wonder what would have happened if they had not tried to create a new protocol.
exObserver 12/4/2012 | 10:06:24 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas This is what happens when no one from Xalted will post, looks like most of the posters are laid off telecom workers with nother better to do than drink beer and post things.

I guess the Xalted management goes by the philosphy "When I am quiet people think I am stupid, and when I talk it removes any doubt".

inlight 12/4/2012 | 10:06:24 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas WhiteKnight wrote:
I think it is a little(lot) presumtuous to call them bible beaters, they just stood behind the shroud of christianity as do many others, without having any knowledge or understanding of what christianity is, other than what the label christian can do for them in the business environment. Their collective knowledge of the bible could be contained in a package the size of an atom.


----
Perhaps they knew it well only the God can save their company!

IL
exObserver 12/4/2012 | 10:06:24 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas All project pronto needs is a few Xalted boxes in it.

--------

Sheesh, and to think I was for a while kind of taken in by the Xalted story. Bankrupt Bible Beaters, huh?
------------------------------------------------

Late breaking news Xalted Networks has several new board members

Jim Baker
Tammy Fae Baker
Jimmy Swaggort
Robert Tilton
Jessie Jackson
and
Bill Clinton so he can feel all the investors and ex employees pain
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:06:24 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas All project pronto needs is a few Xalted boxes in it.

--------

Sheesh, and to think I was for a while kind of taken in by the Xalted story. Bankrupt Bible Beaters, huh?
------------------------------------------------

Late breaking news Xalted Networks has several new board members

Jim Baker
Tammy Fae Baker
Jimmy Swaggort
Robert Tilton
Jessie Jackson
and
Bill Clinton so he can feel all the investors and ex employees pain

--------------------------------------------------

But what about Harmonica Lewensky. I heard she was there to moisten the cigars that they smoke after every board meeting.
willywilson 12/4/2012 | 10:06:25 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas All project pronto needs is a few Xalted boxes in it.

--------

Sheesh, and to think I was for a while kind of taken in by the Xalted story. Bankrupt Bible Beaters, huh?
willywilson 12/4/2012 | 10:06:25 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas I wasn't there so I don't know but I do know that the web page says "Our leaders practice servant leadership." That, as I am sure you know, is a turn of phrase very popular among Christian Evangelicals and it has a very specific meaning in that community. That's all fine and dandy in private but if you place a particular religious doctrine in a privileged position in a company you will inevitably discriminate against or discourage bright and enthusiastic people who do not share your religious views. This is not only wrong on an ethical level it is bad business.

A lot of people in Dallas seem to think that religious freedom means the freedom of christians to encourage non-christians to "see the light" but doesn't include the freedom of other religions to get christians to see the "light" they see.

------------

Not to mention the right of people to be left the hell alone with regard to religion. Goddamn Bible-thumpers don't seem to understand that they're just as fanatical as the people who bombed the World Trade Center.

Speaking of evanglical Christians, I saw a clip on TV the other day of Bernie Ebbers, in better days, making a big deal of his belief in Jesus Christ. I guess he didn't remember Christ's having said that it would be easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

Now, the gates of federal prison might be a different matter.
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:06:25 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas I think it is a little(lot) presumtuous to call them bible beaters, they just stood behind the shroud of christianity as do many others, without having any knowledge or understanding of what christianity is, other than what the label christian can do for them in the business environment. Their collective knowledge of the bible could be contained in a package the size of an atom.
b4uthink 12/4/2012 | 10:06:25 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Project Pronto is what they called it. SBC blamed PP's demise on the government, but I had heard the real reason was that the DSLAMs didn't work. I hadn't known that the Stinger was the issue

---------------------------------------------
That's funny. I heard it was tough to deploy the stinger cost-effectively. (Maybe it was a little of both).
-----------------------------------------------
The Xalted box was supposed to be able to provide both POTS and DSL with a fairly high circuit density.

The Stinger couldn't do that. I think there was a pretty sever penalty for equipping DSL on the Stinger. (They are very vague on this point in their product literature).

I heard one 7X could handle all the POTS/ADLS traffic for an average residential SAI. I haven't heard if they were every able to handle that much traffic in the lab though.
inlight 12/4/2012 | 10:06:25 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Well he is not the only one....

I heard AFC boxes have BLUE LEDS and selling ...

I heard that some one ... high up in the ladder there is also soooooo obsessed with having blue LEDS every where. He is now heading/founded another company.

IL
exObserver 12/4/2012 | 10:06:26 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Not defunct .... by certainly handed its hat.
SW Bell was not able to successfully deploy it as
Project Pronto is what they called it. SBC blamed PP's demise on the government, but I had heard the real reason was that the DSLAMs didn't work. I hadn't known that the Stinger was the issue.
-----------------------------------------------

All project pronto needs is a few Xalted boxes in it.
b4uthink 12/4/2012 | 10:06:26 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Ooops sorry.
Not defunct.
But I seem to recall SW Bell tried to deply it in Texas last year .... with little success.
willywilson 12/4/2012 | 10:06:26 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Not defunct .... by certainly handed its hat.
SW Bell was not able to successfully deploy it as I recall. What was that DSL project thye had going last year?

-------

Project Pronto is what they called it. SBC blamed PP's demise on the government, but I had heard the real reason was that the DSLAMs didn't work. I hadn't known that the Stinger was the issue.
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:06:27 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Apparently you must be an Xalted employee.
I have known the SE referenced for years.
Yes he is very deliberate in his delivery, but the one thing you are overlooking is that he has done his homework, which apparently none of the rest of the people at Xalted did with exception to a few, and if the truth hurts, then so be it.
He is very knowledgable and very willing to help out when the situation arises. If the people at Xalted had a problem with him, then it must have been of their own accord.
BTW, After he was rough shod out of Xalted he ended up at Celion as a manager, and the people that worked with him have nothing but good to say about him.
Sources tell me that when he was called on the carpet, that the firing manager wouldn't even look at him during the firing process, but just read the words from a prescribed script, while the HR witch sat there with an evil smile on her face.
willywilson 12/4/2012 | 10:06:27 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Lucent's Stinger - defunct

---------

Is this true? Wow, I hadn't heard!
theanswer 12/4/2012 | 10:06:27 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Well they are good guys but not the best I have seen. Many of the ADC guys didn't come on board until a year after the company was started. They were being let go at ADC and wanted to go to a company as a team. Most of the software guys that started at WRN were not ADC guys. They did come in greater numbers after ADC was laying off left and right. No hard feelings against these guys but some good people that put in 2 years of work and were good engineers were let go to save the ADC guys.
b4uthink 12/4/2012 | 10:06:27 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Not defunct .... by certainly handed its hat.
SW Bell was not able to successfully deploy it as I recall. What was that DSL project thye had going last year?
exObserver 12/4/2012 | 10:06:27 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas What was so strange was that the president made such a big push of his religon while the software manager was pushing so hard to get non christians into the company. The good news for all of us ex's is that we now have worked for the worse company we will ever work for.

-----------------------------------------------

No chief there are opening at the new Xalted sweatshop in India. They promise it will be worse.
TheChief 12/4/2012 | 10:06:27 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas What was so strange was that the president made such a big push of his religon while the software manager was pushing so hard to get non christians into the company. The good news for all of us ex's is that we now have worked for the worse company we will ever work for.
exObserver 12/4/2012 | 10:06:28 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas The old saying goes something like

Those who can do, those who can't teach, those who can't teach administrate, those who can't administrate must work for Xalted.

How do I apply for a job at Xalted Networks?

gardner 12/4/2012 | 10:06:28 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas
That is the whole problem! Why do people care how another person worships?

That my friend is the point! Why should management care? If they did indeed encourage Christian bible study then clearly they did care--and that is bad. I wasn't there so I don't know but I do know that the web page says "Our leaders practice servant leadership". That, as I am sure you know, is a turn of phrase very popular among Christian Evangelicals and it has a very specific meaning in that community. That's all fine and dandy in private but if you place a particular religious doctrine in a privileged position in a company you will inevitably discriminate against or discourage bright and enthusiastic people who do not share your religious views. This is not only wrong on an ethical level it is bad business.

I don't care how you pray or who you pray to.
And what if you do not pray at all?

I said at lunch breaks you should be able to pray, surf, or talk sports or do nothing.

Of course you can--but without active encouragement by management. Business people have to decide whether they want to run a business or a church. If they want to run a church then let them. If they want to run a business then they have to keep their religious biases out of the workplace. It is bad business. I live in Dallas and I know how prevalent the cultural bias toward evangelical Christianity is around here. I think alot of people here in Dallas don't stop to think how they would feel if the executives of a company they worked for were as blatantly and publically biased toward Islam or Buddhism or Hinduism. What if the call to prayer were piped 5 times a day through the company's public address system? Or a shrine to Ganesh were placed in the cafeteria and people encouraged to perform pujas? A lot of people in Dallas seem to think that religious freedom means the freedom of christians to encourage non-christians to "see the light" but doesn't include the freedom of other religions to get christians to see the "light" they see. What they need is a good hearty dose of life where turnabout is fairplay--say in Saudi Arabia. ;-)
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:06:28 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas You may not meet the criteria.
1) You must be in this country on an H1B visa.

2) You must be a complete moron(Which according to your posts I have read eliminates you from the pool).

3)You must have the ability to stand in front of a person talking and smiling, all the while sticking a knife in their back.

4) You must be a pompous ass.
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:06:29 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas "Most of those guys are gone now and replaced with ADC guys"

The hardware and many of the software guys there originally came from ADC, and are still there.
Also, the hardware team that went there from ADC are the best I have seen.
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:06:29 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas The same people that the phrase "We limit the bandwidth so you don't have to" applies to.
theanswer 12/4/2012 | 10:06:30 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas The car giveaway wasn't two years ago. More like 1 year and a few months. The company started hiring people in Jan. Feb. Mar. of 2000. The car and population reached 245 after 1 1/2 years. They never added VT grooming or managed DS1s which customers wanted and could have sold more product. Yes your right the economy played a big part in WRNs problems but the excessive burn rate and not adjusting sooner didn't help either. Their first hardware team did an excellent job building the infrastructure and doing two boxes. They had vendor IC problems like anyone else but they started at the ground floor and had designs in the lab in 6 months or slightly more. Most of those guys are gone now and replaced by ADC guys.
exObserver 12/4/2012 | 10:06:31 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas What kind of an idiotic company would have blue LEDs on a telecom/datacom product?

Last Bellcore spec I read on the subject mentions Green and Red.

Were they unaware of the standards or just paving a new path again?

Come on someone from Xalted enlighten us.
exObserver 12/4/2012 | 10:06:32 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Why would someline try to feed us with a line of bull like this?

"This is a positive note for our company," says Keith Bradshaw, Xalted's director of marketing. "We're still very much alive, and our investors are 100 percent behind us."

Bradshaw says Xalted now employs around 40 people in the U.S. and India and aims to have 80 or more on staff in the next six to 12 months.

If the investors were behind Xalted, they would not be in Chapter 11. How can being locked out of your offices, laying off almost all your employees, and moving software to India be a positive note?

With good news like this, who needs bad news.
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:06:32 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Ah, but I hear that the president is seen every morning jiggling on the front door in hopes that the lock may miraculously open itself.
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:06:32 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas I got this from an inside source.
Appaerntly the president was infactuated with the idea of using blue LEDs on the front panel of the product. Last I looked the color blue was reserved as a designation for medical facilities.
Maybe he also misread that application, and intended for the blue LEDs to be a cry for help when the Xalted box puked on itself, due to the strain of trying to push those xausted packets through the hardware, and started to die.
jamesbond 12/4/2012 | 10:06:33 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas They are attending bible school.
jamesbond 12/4/2012 | 10:06:33 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas They are attending bible school.
exObserver 12/4/2012 | 10:06:33 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Maybe all the Xalted defenders are not able to post because they cannot get into their offices.

I heard they have been locked out of their offices until back rent is paid.

Don't they realize Texas is a pay as you go state. No pay no office.
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:06:34 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas There is a difference between a good story and reality.
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:06:36 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Texas is a right to work state.
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:06:36 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas That just goes to show the arrogance of the pompous asses. Apparently they considered themselves above the laws governing employment in the great state of Texas.
In Texas a non-compete, even if signed by the employee, is not enforcable.
exObserver 12/4/2012 | 10:06:37 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas I have been told that some of the newer employees at Xalted were forced (or the job offer would be recinded) to sign a non compete agreement. This agreement specified that they could not work for anyone who makes telecom equipment, or buys telecom equipment for two years after leaving Xalted

Apparently they really really really beleived they had the answer to the access market.

I guess they knew Xalted was not a good place to work and were worried about people leaving and telling all the non beleivers about the Xalted Packet.
b4uthink 12/4/2012 | 10:06:37 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas What is "SIA"?????????
------------------------
Sorry ... fat fingered it .... SAI
Serving Area Interface, a small cabinet
usually within about 5,000 ft of the NID
TheChief 12/4/2012 | 10:06:37 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Yes this is true. Last spring they tried to get all employees to sign a non compete agreement. As you can guess, this did not sit well with the employees. Some of the key engineers were very vocal at the HR lovely lady shut up.
TheChief 12/4/2012 | 10:06:38 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Read the board, they have been. No one in their right mind can defend the Xalted Packet.
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:06:38 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas I was just aksing for someone to step up to the plate and defend, not attack the Xausted packet, as it was refered to by many of the ex-employees.
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:06:38 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Since I have not seen any posts in here from anyone willing to stand up and defend the concept, they all must be as Peter, when things heated up for Jesus, he denied any association.
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:06:39 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas I agree. Why doesn't someone from Sons of Satan Inc. jump in and defend the logic?
TheChief 12/4/2012 | 10:06:39 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Xalted was cursed by very bad management. Consider the following facts.

1) Software was staffed (over 30) and running full speed without a system engineer staff to provide software requirements.

2)Over a year after the company was found, and while software developement was underway, the Xalted packet design was still being changed.

3) The system enginering staff, once in place, tried very hard to change from Xalted packet to MPLS or ATM. The ones who fought this the most were the VP of Engineering and Software Management.

4) The ATM expert in the company was the software manager who had very little knowledge of ATM.

5) The control plain was to use IP packets; however, the software architect was going to define the MAC addresses in software and use DHCP and DNS.

6) The goal of management was to file and many patent aplications as posible. Not to get the patent but to have as many patent pendings as possible for VC's.

7) The software manager wanted as many engineers a posible from India and replaced many experienced software engineers with inexperienced engineers from India.

As a side note, the SE that was fired had a bad habit of telling management that what they were designing was not going to work. The SE's were nothing but tech writters for management.
exObserver 12/4/2012 | 10:06:39 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Since I did not work there, only knew some people who did at one time, why doesn't someone from Xalted defend the Xalted Packet concept.

I am not a telecom expert, and the existing protocols MPLS, ATM. and IP are far from perfect, but get real without man years of effort, and some other companies jumping on the bandwagon for a new packet technology, how in the world did Xalted think their packet technology was going to catch on.

Protocols standards are normally a compromise between similar ideas from different companies.
jamesbond 12/4/2012 | 10:06:40 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas "There's another company, I forget their name, they build a product called the "MainSail 8000"?"

Would that be MainSail Networks - now part
of Terayawn, i mean Terayon.

"Cisco is nervously trying to put thier little routers in the SIA."

What is "SIA"??????????

b4uthink 12/4/2012 | 10:06:40 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Is there a company doing what Xalted tried to do?
-------------------------------------------------
Gotham Networks - defunct
Lucent's Stinger - defunct
There's another company, I forget their name, they build a product called the "MainSail 8000"?

I guess the LiteSpan with lashed up ADSL is still the incumbent solution.

Cisco is nervously trying to put thier little routers in the SIA.

There are alot of ways to do what Xalted wanted to do with multi-box solutions.

The Xalted story was good. I think if they had stuck with off-the-shelf technology they might have made it.
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:06:40 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Regardless of that. Where is the sense in coming up with yet another layered protocol to chew up bandwidth? Isn't the purpose of on going technology advancement to make the products more efficient and more compatible? Thats why there are industry standard protocols that are defined by forums. If some little piss ant company thinks it can come into this industry and define its own protocol, then they will get what they deserve, death.

BTW:
The whole downfall of Xalted, or should i call it by its real name, Sons of Satan Inc., was the fact that the management had no understanding of the industry standards. Furthermore, when standard requirements were brought forth, the management was very forceful in destroying the messanger.
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:06:40 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Regardless of that. Where is the sense in coming up with yet another layered protocol to chew up bandwidth? Isn't the purpose of on going technology advancement to make the products more efficient and more compatible? Thats why there are industry standard protocols that are defined by forums. If some little piss ant company thinks it can come into this industry and define its own protocol, then they will get what they deserve, death.

BTW:
The whole downfall of Xalted, or should i call it by its real name, Sons of Satan Inc., was the fact that the management had no understanding of the industry standards. Furthermore, when standard requirements were brought forth, the management was very forceful in destroying the messanger.
PURPLE_HAZE 12/4/2012 | 10:06:40 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Wow someone has shewed things. All of that would depend on number of shelves, cards, and circuits. When did 11 become 70% of 64 ?
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:06:41 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas I think you are missing the point, those people are nothing but a bunch of self rightous hypocrits. They would point out the splinter in your eye, when they had a log in theirs.
exObserver 12/4/2012 | 10:06:41 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas I guess that may have been the crux of the problem. Management could not reconize a bad idea, let alone a good one.

Someone tell us more about the Xalted Packet. What was in it? What features did it provide? Why was it preceived as being valuable?

LightOfDay 12/4/2012 | 10:06:41 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas PURPLE_HAZE said - "The Xalted packet would allow the 7X to have more functions."

-----------------------------------------------
We have all heard about the ATM cell tax. The Xalted packet increased that tax by about 70%.
I don't call it a feature when I use my DSL connection, and only get about third of the bandwidth that I paid for.
PURPLE_HAZE 12/4/2012 | 10:06:42 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas That is the whole problem! Why do people care how another person worships? I don't care how you pray or who you pray to. I said at lunch breaks you should be able to pray, surf, or talk sports or do nothing.
WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:06:42 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Just as the management wanted to patent UPSR, even though it has always been a bellcore published industry standard?
PURPLE_HAZE 12/4/2012 | 10:06:42 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas If you think you have something new or original the why not patent it?
PURPLE_HAZE 12/4/2012 | 10:06:42 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Is there a company doing what Xalted tried to do?
exObserver 12/4/2012 | 10:06:42 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas What other functions could the home grown protocol provide that is not provided in MPLS, ATM, ot IP?



WhiteKnight 12/4/2012 | 10:06:43 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Just as the pharisees of Isreal crucified their savior, so did the pharisees of Xalted(the president and the vp of engineering, with the help of a few others) crucified their saviors.
PURPLE_HAZE 12/4/2012 | 10:06:43 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Xalted did use ATM in early tests. This was for proof of concept. The Xalted packet would allow the 7X to have more functions. I know you want details but that was the crux of the matter.
jamesbond 12/4/2012 | 10:06:43 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas I think I missed that Handbook. If I can meet you at lunch and talk about the Cowboy's then why can't someone else meet and talk about God? This was not incouraged by management but management did attend. I never went but that was my choice just like talking about the Cowboy's was my choice
-----------------

1. Sports isn't as sensitive a subject as
religion. Try selling your story to Osama.

2. Startup should have just ONE focus. Nobody
needs a distraction.
LightOfDay 12/4/2012 | 10:06:43 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas PURPLE_HAZE said - "You should ask could the HW handle using MPLS, ATM or IP."

-----------------------------------

I sure that all existing off-the-shelf chips sets were designed with the Xalted packet in mind, but then there was that pesky patent to get around.
b4uthink 12/4/2012 | 10:06:43 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas You should ask could the HW handle using MPLS, ATM or IP.

----------------------------------------------
Could it?

Why would one design a packet switch that couldn't?
b4uthink 12/4/2012 | 10:06:44 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas I heard some people say things but this group never came up with a better plan. This was maybe 3 engineers out of 20.

------------------------------------------------
My understanding is that they wanted to scrap the Xalted Packet and use either ATM or MPLS. These are both proven technologies. If the Xalted Packet provided a feature that eclipsed the capabilities of either of these technologies, what was it?
jamesbond 12/4/2012 | 10:06:44 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas From what I had heard, the employee handbook was full of references to God and how
Xalted networks was ordained to succeed. They also held bible studies at work, though they didn't require employee attendance.
---------------


What do you expect from a company in Dallas, TX?
PURPLE_HAZE 12/4/2012 | 10:06:44 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas You should ask could the HW handle using MPLS, ATM or IP.
PURPLE_HAZE 12/4/2012 | 10:06:44 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas He was rude before the Xalted packet issue. He rubbed me the wrong way on his first week at the company and it had nothing to do with Xalted Packets. He was not liked at all levels of the company. When they said he was fired most people in the company said that it was about time.
PURPLE_HAZE 12/4/2012 | 10:06:45 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas I think I missed that Handbook. If I can meet you at lunch and talk about the Cowboy's then why can't someone else meet and talk about God? This was not incouraged by management but management did attend. I never went but that was my choice just like talking about the Cowboy's was my choice.
PURPLE_HAZE 12/4/2012 | 10:06:45 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas I heard some people say things but this group never came up with a better plan. This was maybe 3 engineers out of 20.
exObserver 12/4/2012 | 10:06:45 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas From what people are saying maybe it could "bless" the packets better than existing technology.

b4uthink 12/4/2012 | 10:06:46 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas No one presented to management a better alternative to the Xalted Packet, they just complained and shot off at the mouth. Once again I was there
------------------------------------------
So ... what did the Xalted Packet do that existing technology (MPLS,ATM,IP) could not do?
exObserver 12/4/2012 | 10:06:46 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas So if the company dies, will it arise after 3 days?
LightOfDay 12/4/2012 | 10:06:46 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas That certain SE getting fired, had nothing to do with the Xalted packet. Get your facts straight.

If you call trying to convince the management and some of the inexperienced workers that what they were building was not going to work, and that it did not meet the marketing requirements that they were telling potential customers (ie. lying), as attitude and mistreating co-workers, well I guess the truth hurts. This was 100% of the reason for the firing.

As is evident by all of the corporate fallout from corruption in this industry, I think the truth is a good thing.
PURPLE_HAZE 12/4/2012 | 10:06:46 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas The product did work but on a limmited basis. Management set goals that they admitted were very hard to meet. Xalted did do some things that happen very quick in the development cycle. When the meat of the work started the money troubles began. Management had more Faith at the top than realistic thinking.
PURPLE_HAZE 12/4/2012 | 10:06:47 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Take away the sign and you get Xalted going bankrupt next week instead of this week. The Xalted packet was not the problem. Having too many know it alls at all levels of the company was the main problem. No one presented to management a better alternative to the Xalted Packet, they just complained and shot off at the mouth. Once again I was there.
b4uthink 12/4/2012 | 10:06:47 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas If you are talking about a certain SE that was fired, I'm here to let you know that the Xalted Packet was only 20% of the reason for him getting fired. 80% was his attitude and the way he treated his co-workers. I was there

-----------------------------------------------
I wasn't even sure their had been a "firing".
But you know this did happen.
Was he the only one complaining about the Xalted Packet? I was made to understand their was a group of engineers that confronted this issue and all were ignored. Is that true?
LightOfDay 12/4/2012 | 10:06:47 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas There's more to a name, than meets the eye.
I am all for freedom of religion, but I think
a corporate entity, being a creature of the state,
should abide by the seperation of church and state. From what I had heard, the employee handbook was full of references to God and how
Xalted networks was ordained to succeed. They also held bible studies at work, though they didn't require employee attendance.

I know the bible say's that "The meek shall inherit the earth", but I don't remember where it say's that "Technically inept management shall inherit the market".

I guess for Xalted, this Chapter 11 is the second coming. Hopefully, this management doesn't end up in anybody else's promise land.
exObserver 12/4/2012 | 10:06:47 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Purple haze since you were there, please tell us more. Did the product work?

Is there any chance for the company to come out of bankruptcy?
exObserver 12/4/2012 | 10:06:48 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas I think one of the problems with many start-ups is that the management is potted plants. From reading various companies management bios, it seemd like they were successfull at big companies, probably following the old saying a person gets promoted to their level of incompentcy.

Being a VP for Alcatel, Nortel, DSC, or other big telecom companies in the 80s and 90s does not mean they know how to manage a product or company.

Bad management is not a problem that is only at a few companies, it seems to be almost everywhere.

But remember even potted plants respond to stimulus.
PURPLE_HAZE 12/4/2012 | 10:06:48 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas If you are talking about a certain SE that was fired, I'm here to let you know that the Xalted Packet was only 20% of the reason for him getting fired. 80% was his attitude and the way he treated his co-workers. I was there.
exObserver 12/4/2012 | 10:06:49 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas I finally have seen the light. I was driving near the Xalted Networks building, and they have a great big (and I bet expensive) blue sign that can be seen at night.

I wonder what the employees thought about money being spent on the sign while engineers were being laid off.

Maybe this sign will lead Xalted Networks to the promise land of bankruptcy.
exObserver 12/4/2012 | 10:06:50 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas The rumors I have heard is one person was fired for trying to show management that their idea would not fly. After that the engineers were hoping after having problems with the implementation of the Xalted Packet every step of the way, the Xalted Packet would be scrapped.

I also heard a rumor Xalted was in the process of patenting the Xalted Packet. If this is true the management truely had more money than sense. I guess now they have no money and still have no sense.

Can anyone confirm the patent rumors?
b4uthink 12/4/2012 | 10:06:52 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Concerning the Xalted Packet.
I heard rumors (I have not been able to confirm) that some of the engineering staff tried very hard to convince upper management that their Xalted Packet was a bad idea. Didn't somebody get fired over this? If anybody knows the details of this supposed struggle please let us know.
b4uthink 12/4/2012 | 10:06:53 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas My understanding is that most of the senior management has a good telecom background. Unfortunately the core of the 7X is (was) a packet switch. Some awful decisions were made concerning traffic management, queing and rounting. These decisions fundamentally affected the hardware design.
Route495 12/4/2012 | 10:06:56 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas How's this company doing?
TeleGone 12/4/2012 | 10:06:58 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas It is summer, and it is cold...

The start ups of North Dallas are dying out.
it is going to be difficult to have a suriver.

Last week alone, many of them have layoff, to name a few:
WhiteRock
Santera
and even Navini

The left in the town:
Chiaro
Xtera
MetroOptics

But the chance for them to be around next year is very small, maybe Navini can.

Prediction anyone?
i_kveld 12/4/2012 | 10:07:01 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Aren't they moving offshore?

Yet another company that was going to replace the circuit-switched network with packets, before the carriers went broke...
i_kveld 12/4/2012 | 10:07:02 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas C'mon, the car giveaway was a couple of years ago
and probably cost less than two recruiter fees --
back when headhunters were a fact of life.

And I don't think WRN ever reached 245 people. They had their first layoff over a year ago, and
have had two more since.

The truth is there's nothing all that "wrong" with
the product(s) or the company -- and even if they were absolutely perfect and nearly free, do you really think there'd be a queue of customers waiting to buy? I sure don't. You might as well start a subscription satellite TV channel in Pennsylvania Dutch as try to see new telecom gear these days. You can't fault the strategy when
there was no realistic way to win.

theanswer 12/4/2012 | 10:07:10 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Hope Pat can turn WRN excutives thinking on product strategy since Ron couldn't.
I think WRN grew way to fast causing an excessive burn rate that wasn't addressed until late in the telecom struggle. WRN should have never had the car give away and ramped to 245+ people until the market demonstrated the need for their products. Now all hopes are based on the VLX2020 which is not feature rich enough to steal market share without a big player's help. Cost is not the only game in town, it also has to work robustly with the features companies will buy today.
exObserver 12/4/2012 | 10:07:13 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas One of the biggest problems at Xalted was that the management team did not know or understand the technology available. Instead of using a multi-protocol technology like MPLS (or even ATM or IP), they decided to invent their own protocol. They were and are so naive that they thought they could define a better protocol in a few man months, than what is already out there. Also they never considered a ring with any other equipment in it besides their own.

This homegrown protocol is very inefficient, and all hadware and software associated with it must be designed in house. They were suprised when it came time to test, that the off the shelf parts could not understand what an Xalted Paket was. As far as I know they never had the hardware working beyond hard coded simplistic demos.

They also spent too much time congradulating themselves, thinking they did a whole lot with a little. When in fact they did very little with a lot.

These guys were finished before they were started.


willywilson 12/4/2012 | 10:07:15 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas They were on the right track with their product. Its to bad the senior management didn't know how to build it. Their knowledge base was very weak in the technology that was the centerpiece of the 7X architecture.

---------

The senior management didn't understand the technology? Sheesh! That was the whole damn story. What were they, then? Potted plants?
b4uthink 12/4/2012 | 10:07:16 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas They were on the right track with their product. Its to bad the senior management didn't know how to build it. Their knowledge base was very weak in the technology that was the centerpiece of the 7X architecture. Their VP of sales (Pat Rockford) was the most technically adept person in the bunch. He and that Keith Bradshaw guy,(Director of Marketing I think), were probably the only ones that really knew what the product needed to do.
Techman 12/4/2012 | 10:07:17 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Don't know who you are referring to as Sami...
But do know COO, VP of Product Management, and several director and managers are all gone. No sales and shrinking last-round funding don't help either. Getting ready to Mahi!!!!
theanswer 12/4/2012 | 10:07:20 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas It doesn't take any of that advanced math we took in college to figure out the story line. It is add and subtract when you don't have sales to speak of. The subtracting numbers include workforce and not just money from the shrinking pile you got from the last round. With all the delays, scandals, and capex woes I expect things to get worse before they get better. people quitting, layoffs, dismissals, shutdowns, are realistic so don't bury your head. Also don't dwell on it until you hate your job and the people calling the shots even if their decisions don't make since.
theanswer 12/4/2012 | 10:07:22 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas They just had a big layoff within the last 2 months and expect more is sales don't pick up.
willywilson 12/4/2012 | 10:07:22 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas I had thought they had a really interesting story.
wildcat20 12/4/2012 | 10:07:23 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Rapid5 networks has closed it's operations in Richarson Texas. They had at one time about half of the company's employees in Richardson that did most of the platform development. The other half was in San Jose. There have been a good amount of layoffs in San Jose as well. I don't know how long this company will last.
Light-bulb 12/4/2012 | 10:07:26 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Hey! What are you trying to say about Cerent? Hey I'll have you know we were right on track, it was all Cisco's Fault!
Honestly we never sold futures! Our Engineering team could have done it in 2000 with all Discrete components really... it could have happened... RF noise, backplane issues those were not real. :)

Cheerio,
mrackin 12/4/2012 | 10:07:27 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Re India: the company they "bought" came with more cash than the initial purchase price. Its value was in the IP it had already developed; it only had a handful of people. It didn't move ANYTHING there. They had a RIF (29%) a month ago (including me).
knave 12/4/2012 | 10:07:33 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas
..but what about Sami?
stuartb 12/4/2012 | 10:07:34 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Wasn't that thing announced at Supercomm 2001! They must be out to break Cerent's record for delaying shipment of OC-192...

-Stu
lr_fan 12/4/2012 | 10:07:35 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Wow. I kind of thought they might be getting some traction. They are just like PacketLight and Tropic and Lightscape though. I think.
Lightwoman 12/4/2012 | 10:07:37 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas The word on Photuris is that they will go the big startup hall in the sky.
lr_fan 12/4/2012 | 10:07:38 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas Does anyone know why Pat Rockford left Photuris?
inlight 12/4/2012 | 10:07:39 PM
re: More Startup Setbacks in Texas I understand Metro-otpx bought a s/w company in India some time back, and moved much of its software development to India.

How are they doing? Any body knows?

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