& cplSiteName &
Video

OTN Inches Toward the Metro

11/9/2011
50%
50%
Newest First  |  Oldest First  |  Threaded View        ADD A COMMENT
Page 1 / 2   >   >>
Pete Baldwin
50%
50%
Pete Baldwin,
User Rank: Light Beer
12/5/2012 | 4:49:21 PM
re: OTN Inches Toward the Metro


This video is basically Sterling Perrin's more measured view of Tuesday's "OTN Must Die" rant from Sten Nordell of Transmode.


As I think I said before, I think Sten was playing up to the cameras a bit, so to speak, and he might even agree with what Sterling is saying here.


So - OTN in the metro - anybody out there considering it? What are the most important pros and cons?

Jon B
50%
50%
Jon B,
User Rank: Light Beer
12/5/2012 | 4:49:19 PM
re: OTN Inches Toward the Metro


Hi Craig / Sterling - Just a quick post to clarify on the latency comments. Sten's point was that is an area of the network where you need to do Layer 2 Ethernet functionality (typicallty a Layer 2 Ethernet based aggregation/backhaul/metro network) then any OTN will add latency as the node will need to terminate the OTN to access the full Ethernet frame, do whatever processing/switching/aggregation was required and then recreate a new OTN signal. 3 steps which all add some latency. The Native Packet Optical approach uses standard Ethernet as the payload and only has one of these steps and therefore lower latency. So the comparision Sten was making isn't against an OTN switch which is only operating at the OTN level, it should be compared to a device that does this and the necessary Layer 2 functionality. Although I note you were referring to core and not metro devices.


Naturally, once the relevant pipe has been aggregated enough to get it full enough and the traffic is all going to the same location then futher layer 2 isn't necessary within the transport network and OTN (or other approaches) could be used to transport this data - such as in the core of a network, where OTN does make more sense.


Cheers


Jon (Transmode)

mvissers
50%
50%
mvissers,
User Rank: Light Beer
12/5/2012 | 4:49:19 PM
re: OTN Inches Toward the Metro


Ethernet frames are transported over a fiber inside a CBR stream. This CBR stream can be:

<ul>
<li>a 802.3 bit stream (1GE, nX1GE (LAG),&nbsp;10GE, nx10GE (LAG),&nbsp;40GE, 100GE) which is mapped into an OTN ODUk (k=0,2e,3,4) and then into an OTUk&nbsp;(k=2e,3,4) or into a HO ODUk/OTUk &nbsp;and then put onto a wavelength, or</li>
<li>a OTN ODUk/flex bit stream (nx1.25G) which is mapped into an OTUk (k=2e,3,4), or into a HO ODUk/OTUk and then put into a wavelength.</li>
</ul>

Mapping Ethernet frames directly into an ODUk/flex has fewer processes in its path, and thus less delay.


Maarten

mvissers
50%
50%
mvissers,
User Rank: Light Beer
12/5/2012 | 4:49:18 PM
re: OTN Inches Toward the Metro


Hi Jon,


Inefficiency is a separate issue. A number of operators have determined that it is more efficient (TCO wise) to bypass packet layer switches when the CIR bandwidth&nbsp;is exceeding 300-400 Mbit/s.


At bandwidths lower than this number it is more efficient to groom the packet traffic from multiple streams in a packet switch before putting it again in a CBR stream (e.g. ODUk/flex).


I am seeing that this is being done now at the edge of the aggregation/metro network for the broadband backhaul in EOTN edge devices. The ODU connections (e.g. 10G ODU2)&nbsp;terminates then at the Service Edge locations in EOTN core devices, and ethernet streams are handed to Service Edge nodes (of the different service providers).


For business services, the ethernet streams in the EOTN core devices are either send to the core network (inside ODUk/flex) or back into the aggregation/metro network (inside ODUk/flex). EOTN edge and core devices provide the flexibility to support Ethernet services edge-to-edge via an ODUk as an EPL service, or via a&nbsp;Ethernet Connection (carried over shared ODUk/flex) as an EVPL, EVPT, EVPLAN&nbsp;service. Also possible is to provide private E-Tree/E-LAN services via an Ethernet Connection carried over dedicated ODUk/flex connections between EOTN edge/core devices.&nbsp;


Maarten

Jon B
50%
50%
Jon B,
User Rank: Light Beer
12/5/2012 | 4:49:18 PM
re: OTN Inches Toward the Metro


Hi Maarten,


There are also other options for carrying 10G LAN etc directly over fiber without OTN :-)


But the main point that Sten was addressing in his presentation (which I won't go into too much depth here as I also mentioned this on another post for Criag's other article) is that Sten is referring to nodes that need Layer 2 processing - e.g. an aggregation point that aggregates a load of GbE circuits that are carrying say 200-400 Mbit/s for mobile backhaul. Mapping the full GbE into any layer 1 solution (OTN or the other methods I'm referring to above) will be inefficient if layer 2 aggregation isn't done too. As these nodes need layer 2 processing, OTN transport would have to terminated, then layer 2 operations performed and then a new OTN signal started and that was the point Sten was bringing up - it's not just the method of layer 1 mapping a signal to a wavelenth. In the NPO approach as the payload is native ethernet then some of these processing steps are missed totally.


However, I fully see your point that if you were looking into just layer 1 mapping of an Ethernet signal then the flex approach would involve less operations and could therefore have less latency.


Cheers


Jon

Pete Baldwin
50%
50%
Pete Baldwin,
User Rank: Light Beer
12/5/2012 | 4:49:15 PM
re: OTN Inches Toward the Metro


Jon -- Thanks for chiming in here, and for making the point about the latency comparisons. Always good to see vendors openly joining the discussion.

rhr
50%
50%
rhr,
User Rank: Light Beer
12/5/2012 | 4:49:14 PM
re: OTN Inches Toward the Metro
If OTN is so established in the core, isn't it a given that it will migrate, as 100G will migrate, to the metro? And Jon, can't Transmode just support Ethernet over DWDM where it makes sense wherever the industry does? Or is Sten's point that Transmode will also need to support OTN even if it is not needed?
Jon B
50%
50%
Jon B,
User Rank: Light Beer
12/5/2012 | 4:49:13 PM
re: OTN Inches Toward the Metro



Hi All,


One last post on this thread from me (along with another final one on the Is OTN Overkill thread) to hopefully wrap all this up.


Maarten - Firstly, we fully agree that packet layer switches are too expensive for these applications. the architecture that we are using here integrates the necessary layer2 functions into the transport platform which gives totally different economics to deploying switches in addition to a layer1 only transport network. Aggregation was just one example of the layer2 functions that might be needed in a network-switching, service awareness, OAM etc. I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree on how best to achieve all this functionality - we have plenty of customers deploying this native packet optical architecture in metro networks (that could well be feeding nicely filled pipes into an OTN core of course) and I'm sure you guys at Huawei have plenty of customers for a more OTN-centric architecture too. No two networks are the same and no solution is going to be the right one for every network in the world. In our view, those that are dealing with a lot of Ethernet traffic need to look at more packet friendly approaches than OTN within the aggregation/backhaul/metro portion of the network.


Craig - No worries about joining the conversation! There isn't much time to get this concept across at the event and there is some misunderstanding about what we are trying to convey, so happy to try and clarify it for hopefully some of the folks here.


rhr - The challenges in metro and core networks are very different - services differ, capacity levels differ, the physical architecture differs etc. The point is that while a network is still dealing with layer2 issues (aggregation, switching, service awareness etc) then we don't think OTN helps and we believe this architecture is more appropriate. Once a pipe is full (enough) and all the traffic is going to the same place and no longer needs any layer2 interaction then simple layer1 (possibly OTN) is the right thing to do. Core networks typically deal with this type of traffic and for sure some of the more heavily loaded parts of metro networks will too but lots of other networks do and will need layer2. Metro/Core is a very simple way to differentiate between these two and it's not a clear cut demarcation - as mentioned above - all networks are different. We do support OTN transport and over time we will continue to also develop OTN products but we use these for transporting full pipes closer to ,or in, core networks, not for the type of network traffic that Sten was referring to. Oh, and our 100G is OTN framed - this fits the "big fat and full pipe" criteria!


In the other thread on all this (http://www.lightreading.com/me... menahemk gets the point and says "layers need to be there for scalability because flat networks (or flat anything) do not scale. OTN is an essential part in that layering, just don't stretch it where it doesn't fit." - that was the point Sten was making - don't stretch OTN from the core to every application and network, as it just doesn't fit everywhere.



OK - hopefully that's enough from me on this thread!


&nbsp;




neyo
50%
50%
neyo,
User Rank: Light Beer
12/5/2012 | 4:49:12 PM
re: OTN Inches Toward the Metro
Jon, I tend to agree with you. OTN is not required in the metro when 100% of the traffic is packet-based. It is only required in the core. Thanks for clarifying.
^Eagle^
50%
50%
^Eagle^,
User Rank: Light Beer
12/5/2012 | 4:49:07 PM
re: OTN Inches Toward the Metro


I think too many people are trying to make modern network arguements by appling "old" network terms.


This leads to great fallacies.


To wit: Core Networks. &nbsp;Jon of Transmode keeps trying to say Core Networks are essentially long haul transport networks and metro is not a part of the core network.


I think this leads to some of the statements made by all parties on these two chat boards.


So, let us be more clear. &nbsp;in the minds of most carriers I know (and I know a lot of them), CORE NETWORKS include Metro transport and switching! &nbsp;LH and Metro might use slightly different platforms, but from the carrier point of view, they are both part of the "CORE"!


So the arguements are a bit disingenuous. &nbsp;


edge / access / aggregation to get things up to the point of true metro systems is a different space. &nbsp;&nbsp;


I think this arguement needs to be stated in terms of access / edge vs Core. &nbsp;Not Metro vs "Core" as Metro is PART OF THE CORE from any sensible point of view. &nbsp;Metro is for interoffice traffice, carrier interconnect, transport between small cities and towns near larger city cores, etc. &nbsp;


This is distinct from access / edge where services originate and where low bit rates prevail which leads to the need for aggregation to hand off to the core. &nbsp;Remember folks, most of us, including businesses, are still served by relatively low bit rate services from T1/E1 to DSL to cable modem systems to wireless backhaul. &nbsp;almost none of these services have enough bandwidth to justify a full wavelength, even after local aggregation. &nbsp;only when aggregated up to a much higher level do you pack a full 10gig, or 40gig, or 100gig wavelength. &nbsp;


you might look at core as wavelengths at "x" bit rate, and edge access as all user interface services. &nbsp;


In that space, transmode's arguements might have a place, but not at the level of needing a separate wavelength for those TDM services and other non wavelength based services. &nbsp;There is simply not enough to pack the pipe until you get into the core. &nbsp;And core is inclusive of metro. &nbsp;


hence carrier interest in OTN.


sailboat

Page 1 / 2   >   >>
From The Founder
Download our complete guide to de-risking NFV deployment in 2016, including:
  • An eight-step strategy to deploying NFV safely, based on input from the companies that have already started virtualizing their production networks.
  • Interviews with leading executives at Colt, AT&T, Deutsche Telekom, Cisco, Nokia, ZTE, Ericsson and Heavy Reading.
  • Flash Poll
    Live Streaming Video
    Prepping for the Future: Upskill U Explained
    During this short kick-off video, Doug Webster, Vice President of Service Provider Marketing, Cisco, and Light Reading’s CEO & Founder Steve Saunders give an overview of Upskill U.
    LRTV Interviews
    Verizon Puts Gray Boxes in the Shade

    5|2|16   |   04:33   |   (0) comments


    When it comes to the white box trend, "gray" boxes, which have a slight proprietary twist, don't give service providers and end users the advantages they're seeking, according to Verizon's Vice President of Product and New Business Innovation Shawn Hakl.
    LRTV Custom TV
    Dealing With a Disrupted Video Market

    5|2|16   |     |   (0) comments


    Ericsson's Simon Frost discusses how traditional pay-TV providers can cope with the big changes wrought by the rise of OTT video and IP technology.
    LRTV Custom TV
    The VNF Responsibility of Red Hat

    5|2|16   |     |   (0) comments


    At MWC, Caroline Chappell of Heavy Reading visits the Red Hat booth and sits down with Chris Wright to talk about the responsibility the VNF needs to take on in order to ensure the operators get the carrier-grade performance they expect for their network.
    LRTV Interviews
    AT&T Expert on the Key Pillars of UC

    4|29|16   |   03:58   |   (0) comments


    Vishy Gopalakrishnan, AVP of product marketing at AT&T, talks about the three developments that are making unified communications and collaboration secure and reliable for enterprise users.
    LRTV Documentaries
    LRTV Report: Mobile Core Innovation

    4|28|16   |   25:32   |   (0) comments


    Hear from multiple industry experts from Deutsche Telekom, SK Telecom, Heavy Reading, Huawei, Cisco, Ericsson, Nokia, NEC and many more about developments in the mobile core as operators virtualize their IMS and evolved packet core systems and prepare for a 5G world.
    LRTV Huawei Video Resource Center
    NFV World Congress Highlight

    4|26|16   |     |   (0) comments


    The highlight of the NFV World Congress contains exciting telecom news. Join us for an inside look at Huawei's ICT 2020 plan and its latest collaboration with industry leaders.
    LRTV Interviews
    Unified Comms Finds Its Voice

    4|25|16   |   03:44   |   (0) comments


    Peter Quinlan, VP of UCC Product Management at Tata Communications, talks about the evolution of the unified communications and collaboration services sector and how voice is now a big part of current developments.
    LRTV Documentaries
    So... What Do We Do Now?

    4|25|16   |   03:24   |   (0) comments


    After a long hiatus, Max Dingman, the CEO of a GeeGhiz, returns for a motivational board room pep talk.
    LRTV Documentaries
    NAB 2016 Highlights

    4|21|16   |     |   (0) comments


    Light Reading's Cable/Video Practice Leader Alan Breznick climbs down from the slots to tell us about the latest news in broadcast technology at NAB 2016 in Las Vegas.
    Between the CEOs
    CEO Chat: Deepfield's Craig Labovitz

    4|21|16   |     |   (0) comments


    In this latest installment of the CEO Chat series, Craig Labovitz, co-founder and CEO of Deepfield, sits down with Light Reading's Steve Saunders in Light Reading's New York City office to discuss how Deepfield fits in with the big data trend and more.
    Shades of Ray
    Leading Lights 2016: Shortlists Announced

    4|20|16   |   0:53   |   (0) comments


    The judging is over and the Leading Lights 2016 shortlists have been published -- you can see who made the cut by clicking on this link.
    LRTV Custom TV
    Introducing MulteFire – Qualcomm at MWC 2016

    4|18|16   |   3.29   |   (0) comments


    MulteFire is the latest option for using LTE in unlicensed spectrum. As oppose to its close 'siblings', LAA and LTE-U, MulteFire operates solely in unlicensed spectrum, which enables it to offer the best of two worlds – LTE-like performance with WiFi-like deployment simplicity. In this interview, Sanjeev Athalye, Sr. Director, Product Management at Qualcomm ...
    Upcoming Live Events
    May 23, 2016, Austin, TX
    May 23, 2016, Austin Convention Center
    May 24-25, 2016, Austin Convention Center, Austin, TX
    September 13-14, 2016, The Curtis Hotel, Denver, CO
    December 6-8, 2016,
    June 16-18, 2017, Austin Convention Center, Austin, TX
    All Upcoming Live Events
    Infographics
    A new survey conducted by Heavy Reading and TM Forum shows that CSPs around the world see the move to digital operations as a necessary part of their overall virtualization strategies.
    Hot Topics
    Ultra-Broadband Summit, Hong Kong
    Iain Morris, News Editor, 4/27/2016
    Amazon AWS Reports $2.6B Quarterly Revenue, Up a Colossal 64%
    Mitch Wagner, West Coast Bureau Chief, Light Reading, 4/28/2016
    WiCipedia: Woman Cards & Bitch Switches
    Sarah Thomas, Director, Women in Comms, 4/29/2016
    FCC Poised to Re-Regulate Wholesale Access
    Carol Wilson, Editor-at-large, 4/28/2016
    LoRa Alliance Defends Tech Against Sigfox Slur
    Iain Morris, News Editor, 4/28/2016
    Like Us on Facebook
    Twitter Feed
    BETWEEN THE CEOs - Executive Interviews
    In this latest installment of the CEO Chat series, Craig Labovitz, co-founder and CEO of Deepfield, sits down with Light Reading's Steve Saunders in Light Reading's New York City office to discuss how Deepfield fits in with the big data trend and more.
    Grant van Rooyen, president and CEO of Cologix, sits down with Steve Saunders, founder and CEO of Light Reading, in the vendor's New Jersey facility to offer an inside look at the company's success story and discuss the importance of security in the telecom industry.
    Animals with Phones
    Live Digital Audio

    Of all the tech companies in the Valley, Intel has made the most aggressive commitment to building a diverse and inclusive workplace culture. It's doing so by taking concrete, measurable steps, making a large financial investment and through a commitment to complete transparency about its progress. In this radio show, WiC Director Sarah Thomas will be joined by Shlomit Weiss, Intel's Vice President, Data Center Group, and General Manager of Networking Engineering, who will share with us why Intel is tackling this huge challenge, how and to what effect. She will also discuss her unique experiences leading development of Client SOC development in the past and today leading development of all of the chipmaker's silicon hardware for networking IPs and discrete devices and managing a team of 600 engineers across Israel, Europe and the US.